TM 2023 | Open: PYP S_TM | Endgame

[Alisae]

LLD could be intentionally not posting though if they feel like they're a wolf in control of the gamestate.
One of the things she wanted me to take away from Election is that as a wolf, playing your hand reactively and not playing when you don't need to play and only playing it when you're in trouble and you need to move the thread in the direction you want it to go is quite a powerful strategy

[Alisae]

(I think I am going to push the admin team for a feature which collapses back-to-back posts together, my brain hates all the empty space.)

that would be awesome!!!

[Alisae]

Like I'm not willing to push anyone in the top 4 today, it was a mistake town made in a recent game that gave my scum team in the PYP I played a LOT of info to find a cop when we shagged the draft.

It's not worth it. We have 3 sixes at the bottom, and there's almost always a scum in that group.

top 4 huh

[Alisae]

Ythan (9)
Staeg (14)
Gimli (2)
mith (17)

VOTE: Staeg

[Alisae]

@Mith

what do you think of a Rad-Staeg-LLD team?

[Rad]

Ali I think I see why you would put me as the third in an lld staeg team but can you explain in your own words? If I'm right I like your thought process even if it's wrong.

[Staeg]

"Gimli has the right idea" could be strategical phrasing.

What does this even mean

"Gimli has the right idea" is very strange here, given that Gimli has not at this point explained the vote in 413 and that two others (LLD and Alisae) are on the wagon at this point.

I was pretty sure that the vote was based on the preceding 3 posts and that he'd had a similar reaction to mine given that the vote happened then and there

Staeg, what are your thoughts on Gimli?

Leaning town, consistently good vibe and correct reactions without anything outstanding

[Alisae]

LLD if wolf, by not wanting to go after top 4 is probably aiming to protect someone.

I'm not voting mith or Ythan. I don't think Gimli is a wolf and honestly I don't feel like voting them is even productive right now.

Not fond of Rad's presence being the LLD null-or-town debacle + let's all take a breath, but the latter really isn't what I'd bill Rad for; Marashu's entrance being justify vote -> scumreading Rad for the moderation -> piggyback joke haha we're scum -> hop on Rad bandwagon was impressive, Gimli has the right idea

Implosion came in with good takes but then RVS'd instead of doing a real vote, which they still haven't moved; I like them following up on some of relevant setup theory bits ("this game does median, so how good is the data from previous games" + "you included the 1-in-5 as positive examples, but in reality those point in the opposite direction"), but they don't do anything with the protracted theory conversation (or otherwise) so I'm leaning scum on this one, too

VOTE: Marashu

I suspect staeg because of this post. This is a post that I feel like is written to look good and present something as ironclad. It's a kind of post that aims to justify themselves.

Wolves like to generally look good and have ironclad reads.
Villagers want to be right.

It could also be argued that they're distancing from Rad with this but also not voting them. If I want to vote town but have wolves in my wolf pool this is how I'll often go about it so I imagine that's what is what could be happening here.

Reading Rad interactions with LLD, I feel like it's not impossible for a wolf!Rad to come out of the gates say that their teammate is being aggressive if they're a wolf.
It's not like impossible for those two to fake the interactions that they did, I imagine the goal would be to prove that Rad's initial thought process was a thought process if it was fabricated.
The way that ended with Rad being like "ok ya you're different and this is how you're different" could come from a wolf.
they revisit it and say that they could actually be how they're different but it still reads like you could be trying to force the conclusion you want to force.

Staeg and LLD are also positioned similarly in Rad's readlist.

There is an argument that Rad would probably want to put LLD higher on his readlist but I think playing it the way he's playing it could be the safe play

[Alisae]

What does this even mean

The phrasing is intentionally used to try to push the blame onto Gimli if you know both Marashu and Gimli are town

[Alisae]

I think there is also merit in that LLD could opt to pick the same number with someone that they didn't know to look townie. I think that's a play should she could go with and make work

[Staeg]

I like mith's angle on me-Rad - #790 specifically is pointing in a direction I'd want to look in if I weren't one of the involved parties

Speaking of which, I'm not at all fond of Rad's more recent posts (yes, yes, funny timing) - the line of questioning in #567 is dead (you got an "I felt like it" in response to the whole thing and then slapped Alisae as a townread), #725 and #772 feel defensive of the bad kind (the questions thrown back at Datisi don't sound like trying to figure out Datisi's alignment)

[mith]

@Mith

what do you think of a Rad-Staeg-LLD team?

Don't hate it; would be a gambit on 13, and currently I'm still inclined to think scum spread out rather than pairing up. It would also surprise me in the sense that LLD and Staeg were/are on the Marashu wagon and Rad listed that slot as the only scumread.

Do you have a meta read on Rad?

Rad, if you had to gamble on buddies for Marashu right now, who would you pick?

[Alisae]

It would also surprise me in the sense that LLD and Staeg were/are on the Marashu wagon and Rad listed that slot as the only scumread.

This could probably be the main reason why that wagon feels so inflated! The power that comes from playing wolf is that you have more votes than a single villager who's voice is easier to shut down.

I've never played with Rad before.

I think if Rad is a wolf with LLD, they're interacting the way they are with LLD because LLD is the heart to every wolfteam and playing wolf with LLD means that you're always actively playing around LLD

[Staeg]

LLD if wolf, by not wanting to go after top 4 is probably aiming to protect someone.

I'm not voting mith or Ythan. I don't think Gimli is a wolf and honestly I don't feel like voting them is even productive right now.

Not fond of Rad's presence being the LLD null-or-town debacle + let's all take a breath, but the latter really isn't what I'd bill Rad for; Marashu's entrance being justify vote -> scumreading Rad for the moderation -> piggyback joke haha we're scum -> hop on Rad bandwagon was impressive, Gimli has the right idea

Implosion came in with good takes but then RVS'd instead of doing a real vote, which they still haven't moved; I like them following up on some of relevant setup theory bits ("this game does median, so how good is the data from previous games" + "you included the 1-in-5 as positive examples, but in reality those point in the opposite direction"), but they don't do anything with the protracted theory conversation (or otherwise) so I'm leaning scum on this one, too

VOTE: Marashu

I suspect staeg because of this post. This is a post that I feel like is written to look good and present something as ironclad. It's a kind of post that aims to justify themselves.

Wolves like to generally look good and have ironclad reads.
Villagers want to be right.

It could also be argued that they're distancing from Rad with this but also not voting them. If I want to vote town but have wolves in my wolf pool this is how I'll often go about it so I imagine that's what is what could be happening here.

Reading Rad interactions with LLD, I feel like it's not impossible for a wolf!Rad to come out of the gates say that their teammate is being aggressive if they're a wolf.
It's not like impossible for those two to fake the interactions that they did, I imagine the goal would be to prove that Rad's initial thought process was a thought process if it was fabricated.
The way that ended with Rad being like "ok ya you're different and this is how you're different" could come from a wolf.
they revisit it and say that they could actually be how they're different but it still reads like you could be trying to force the conclusion you want to force.

Staeg and LLD are also positioned similarly in Rad's readlist.

There is an argument that Rad would probably want to put LLD higher on his readlist but I think playing it the way he's playing it could be the safe play

LLD protection reasoning sounds solid, I have no idea what you're on about wrt those reads being (presented as) ironclad or what reading of events has me distancing from Rad (up until last post) - elaborate?

[Alisae]

I have no idea what you're on about wrt those reads being (presented as) ironclad or what reading of events has me distancing from Rad (up until last post) - elaborate?

I think your post. 415, was crafted with the intent to look good as opposed to being right.

Not fond of Rad's presence being the LLD null-or-town debacle + let's all take a breath, but the latter really isn't what I'd bill Rad for

you're distancing from rad but you're not going

after

them but instead you're going after who you could potentially see as limbait.

[Staeg]

I have no idea what you're on about wrt those reads being (presented as) ironclad or what reading of events has me distancing from Rad (up until last post) - elaborate?

I think your post. 415, was crafted with the intent to look good as opposed to being right.

Ya I can buy that impression, but you're not

just

saying that the vibe is plumage, there's that other bit about ironclad reads, wtf do you mean by that?

Not fond of Rad's presence being the LLD null-or-town debacle + let's all take a breath, but the latter really isn't what I'd bill Rad for

you're distancing from rad but you're not going

after

them but instead you're going after who you could potentially see as limbait.

Are we using different definitions for distancing? Playing defense for someone by going for limbait doesn't fit any that I know of; it sounds to me like you're saying something other than mith's "looks like they're deflecting shots from each other", but I can't tell what it is

[Alisae]

Ya I can buy that impression, but you're not just saying that the vibe is plumage, there's that other bit about ironclad reads, wtf do you mean by that?

Your presentation of Marashu and Imaginality comes off as ironclad.
"They did this into this into this!" and "they RVS'd instead of putting down a real vote that they still haven't moved!" followed by "I liked this thing they did but they didn't do anything with it!"

[Alisae]

Are we using different definitions for distancing? Playing defense for someone by going for limbait doesn't fit any that I know of; it sounds to me like you're saying something other than mith's "looks like they're deflecting shots from each other", but I can't tell what it is

If you are a wolf with Rad and you wanted to appear as unaligned w/ Rad while also voting Marashu, the player you would perceive as limbait if you are a wolf, I believe the best way to do that would be to shade Rad while also voting Marashu

[Alisae]

Happy Cake day btw

[Staeg]

Are we using different definitions for distancing? Playing defense for someone by going for limbait doesn't fit any that I know of; it sounds to me like you're saying something other than mith's "looks like they're deflecting shots from each other", but I can't tell what it is

If you are a wolf with Rad and you wanted to appear as unaligned w/ Rad while also voting Marashu, the player you would perceive as limbait if you are a wolf, I believe the best way to do that would be to shade Rad while also voting Marashu

Ok I'm not sure why that one took so long for me to stop being confused about, good talk
I no longer have issues with your vote, gl

(and ty)

[Rad]

LLD if wolf, by not wanting to go after top 4 is probably aiming to protect someone.

I'm not voting mith or Ythan. I don't think Gimli is a wolf and honestly I don't feel like voting them is even productive right now.

Not fond of Rad's presence being the LLD null-or-town debacle + let's all take a breath, but the latter really isn't what I'd bill Rad for; Marashu's entrance being justify vote -> scumreading Rad for the moderation -> piggyback joke haha we're scum -> hop on Rad bandwagon was impressive, Gimli has the right idea

Implosion came in with good takes but then RVS'd instead of doing a real vote, which they still haven't moved; I like them following up on some of relevant setup theory bits ("this game does median, so how good is the data from previous games" + "you included the 1-in-5 as positive examples, but in reality those point in the opposite direction"), but they don't do anything with the protracted theory conversation (or otherwise) so I'm leaning scum on this one, too

VOTE: Marashu

I suspect staeg because of this post. This is a post that I feel like is written to look good and present something as ironclad. It's a kind of post that aims to justify themselves.

Wolves like to generally look good and have ironclad reads.
Villagers want to be right.

It could also be argued that they're distancing from Rad with this but also not voting them. If I want to vote town but have wolves in my wolf pool this is how I'll often go about it so I imagine that's what is what could be happening here.

Reading Rad interactions with LLD, I feel like it's not impossible for a wolf!Rad to come out of the gates say that their teammate is being aggressive if they're a wolf.
It's not like impossible for those two to fake the interactions that they did, I imagine the goal would be to prove that Rad's initial thought process was a thought process if it was fabricated.
The way that ended with Rad being like "ok ya you're different and this is how you're different" could come from a wolf.
they revisit it and say that they could actually be how they're different but it still reads like you could be trying to force the conclusion you want to force.

Staeg and LLD are also positioned similarly in Rad's readlist.

There is an argument that Rad would probably want to put LLD higher on his readlist but I think playing it the way he's playing it could be the safe play

This is all fair but I'll ask you to look again at these interactions and consider them being from town!Rad. Like sure, that stuff could be coming from scum!Rad but why is it more likely? And do you truly believe you've solved some master plan that LLD + me had?

I think there is also merit in that LLD could opt to pick the same number with someone that they didn't know to look townie. I think that's a play should she could go with and make work

Alright I guess this is what I was looking for you to claim as a reason. Putting me with LLD + Staeg makes sense if LLD's plan was for us to pick the same number and then we opportunistically chose to attack the 6s which luckily happened to be a bigger group.

All in all I feel like pairing me and LLD here requires some really fancy storytelling so that's just more bonus points to townie Alisae given it's fancy and also well within the realm of possibilities.

I think if Rad is a wolf with LLD, they're interacting the way they are with LLD because LLD is the heart to every wolfteam and playing wolf with LLD means that you're always actively playing around LLD

Correct in an LLD/Rad scum team, I'd play around the far more experienced person for sure.

I'd like to suggest we don't try to find a team until a red flip. I heard that in my newbies often

[Alisae]

his is all fair but I'll ask you to look again at these interactions and consider them being from town!Rad.

I can see everything you are doing in these interactions coming from town as well! I'm just explaining what I think is happening if you two are teamed together.

[Rad]

Rad, if you had to gamble on buddies for Marashu right now, who would you pick?

If there's 1 person in the whole game we don't have enough info about to speculate on pairings, it's Marashu. Which is another reason I don't particularly like flipping them here.

[Bellaphant]

^ is town

Datisi, things like you refusing to engage based on my play, calling klick full of shit, etc, are what I mean about open! wolfing: it's really hard for me to imagine town as this unwilling to fully engage in a thought process and get pushy when asked fairly standard things. I dunno if I'm just bop-ing you, but it really surprises me. But is it twtbaw? I'll ask klick more about the meta read

I feel worse about steag from their posting and better about gimli . Mith's push on them is +town but I like their responses

A few of Ari's posts feel like red flags, but I want to discuss this with my team.

Mena is town

[Bellaphant]

Marashu is a really low info flip, yeah.