Amnesiac Mafia: The Movie! That's a Wrap!

[Save The Dragons]

hmm

[Titus]

I'll catch up in a second but I want to late out more nuanced thoughts on massclaim first.

Proposition 1: Massclaim all roles and actions every day.

Assumption: Roles stay the same day to day.
Pro: We know exactly what roles are in the game or there is scum in the VT claimers.
Pro: Scum find it harder to fake claim.
Con: A smart scumteam can still fake claim existing roles to complicate things.
Con: The scumteam know the exact capabilities of town any given day and have perfect planning for night actions. They have at least 12 people to come up with the perfect mechanical solution.

Assumption: Roles can change day to day. (Meaning a tracker shows up where none existed, cop removed, modifiers added etc.)
Mass claim every day for the prior night just becomes the smart play as past roles cannot determine future actions.

Proposition 2: Claim only roles with guilties or innos, successful protections, kills (vigilante, PGO etc) and negative utility roles (Alien/Commuter/Compulsive).
Pro: We gain information that is necessary in the short term.
Pro: Scum don't know what protectives are in the game (Doc, jailkeeper, bulletproof etc) until a kill is successfully blocked.
Pro: Scum can't night plan around what they don't know exists unless they roll it themselves some night.
Neutral: We can't dictate every single action. I find this a pro as we can't force a particular action so mech talk is less.
Neutral: Scum can fake claim, but they'd have to rely upon the prior holder being dead as an excuse. They run the risk of CCing a townie who is alive. (Assumption: Roles don't rerand.)

Unrelated Mech note
Follow the innocent is a thing in this game. If there is a cop, they check someone. Then someone else checks that cop. We hope to hit town. If we always hit town, then scum become boxed in. Suppose the following, Adam is town. Adam checks Brian who is town. Charlie then randoms cop. Charlie checks Brian who is town. That means if Charlie dies after his result and flips town both Adam and Brian are conftown.

This mechanic likely won't work if scum know what protectives are in the game as they could counter it.

I'm strongly in favor of proposition 2.

[Klick]

Ok!
The feeling is mutual fwiw

this feels super reactionary in a way that strikes me as weird, though.

I was hoping for slightly more engagement than vote followed by 'just kind of a feeling' but I was considering doing basically that in the other direction before Pink Ball's DragonEater case

ok but like this is why it feels reactionary because I feel like you should have expected exactly the response std gave you. That's kinda just what STD does. It's been a consistent theme in THIS GAME even.

That doesn't mean I don't want more?
Like the thing I'm feeling from STD is a sense of reservation
I feel like I normally get a number of things from STD that I feel are genuine and match up really well with a sensible town thought process

And what I feel like I'm getting here is just kind of a cheap imitation of that
Idk if it means he's scum but it makes it hard to townread him like I want to

[Klick]

My responses are a bit reactionary and I don't have much of a problem with that

[Klick]

Anyway, bedtime with the children now

[Save The Dragons]

i don't really think i'm reserved?

[Titus]

VOTE: DragonEater

Did you ever express a scumread on DragonEater? This feels oppositional just to be oppositional.

[Thestatusquo]

Ok!
The feeling is mutual fwiw

this feels super reactionary in a way that strikes me as weird, though.

I was hoping for slightly more engagement than vote followed by 'just kind of a feeling' but I was considering doing basically that in the other direction before Pink Ball's DragonEater case

ok but like this is why it feels reactionary because I feel like you should have expected exactly the response std gave you. That's kinda just what STD does. It's been a consistent theme in THIS GAME even.

That doesn't mean I don't want more?
Like the thing I'm feeling from STD is a sense of reservation
I feel like I normally get a number of things from STD that I feel are genuine and match up really well with a sensible town thought process

And what I feel like I'm getting here is just kind of a cheap imitation of that
Idk if it means he's scum but it makes it hard to townread him like I want to

this is...not responsive to what I'm saying, in a way that feels kind of slimy.

I thought it was pretty clear that we're talking about STDs response to you asking him to talk to you about why he voted you.

in that context I was saying that its weird for you to expect more from STD than "vibes" when that is precisely how I would expect STD to answer the question you asked him like 90% of the time and I think you should also know that.

In this answer it feels like you're shifting the conversation to wanting more from STDs play IN GENERAL which was not what we were talking about, at least I thought it was pretty clear that wasn't what I was talking about.

It feels like you're trying to make my statement seem more unreasonable than it is? When I think the statement "its weird for you to say you expect more out of STD than vibes when you ask him about a vote" is completely reasonable.

[Titus]

Titus
DragonEater70
Dunnstral
Firebringer
Frozen Angel

Black
BlueSnakelet
Drixx
Thestatusquo

kuribo
Save The Dragons
Feysal

GuyInFreezer
Pink Ball

Pink Ball + GIF + probably one misclear?

What happened here to reduce DragonEater to voteable status?

[Titus]

Klick's readwall lends it self easily to the rule of 3 and is very tempting.

[Thestatusquo]

Titus
DragonEater70
Dunnstral
Firebringer
Frozen Angel

Black
BlueSnakelet
Drixx
Thestatusquo

kuribo
Save The Dragons
Feysal

GuyInFreezer
Pink Ball

Pink Ball + GIF + probably one misclear?

What happened here to reduce DragonEater to voteable status?

we also had gif in the solve and then when there's a wagon on gif klick is nowhere to be found and votes the counter.

[Pink Ball]

Whats the rule of 3??

[Frozen Angel]

I'll catch up in a second but I want to late out more nuanced thoughts on massclaim first.

Proposition 1: Massclaim all roles and actions every day.

Assumption: Roles stay the same day to day.
Pro: We know exactly what roles are in the game or there is scum in the VT claimers.
Pro: Scum find it harder to fake claim.
Con: A smart scumteam can still fake claim existing roles to complicate things.
Con: The scumteam know the exact capabilities of town any given day and have perfect planning for night actions. They have at least 12 people to come up with the perfect mechanical solution.

Assumption: Roles can change day to day. (Meaning a tracker shows up where none existed, cop removed, modifiers added etc.)
Mass claim every day for the prior night just becomes the smart play as past roles cannot determine future actions.

Proposition 2: Claim only roles with guilties or innos, successful protections, kills (vigilante, PGO etc) and negative utility roles (Alien/Commuter/Compulsive).
Pro: We gain information that is necessary in the short term.
Pro: Scum don't know what protectives are in the game (Doc, jailkeeper, bulletproof etc) until a kill is successfully blocked.
Pro: Scum can't night plan around what they don't know exists unless they roll it themselves some night.
Neutral: We can't dictate every single action. I find this a pro as we can't force a particular action so mech talk is less.
Neutral: Scum can fake claim, but they'd have to rely upon the prior holder being dead as an excuse. They run the risk of CCing a townie who is alive. (Assumption: Roles don't rerand.)

Unrelated Mech note
Follow the innocent is a thing in this game. If there is a cop, they check someone. Then someone else checks that cop. We hope to hit town. If we always hit town, then scum become boxed in. Suppose the following, Adam is town. Adam checks Brian who is town. Charlie then randoms cop. Charlie checks Brian who is town. That means if Charlie dies after his result and flips town both Adam and Brian are conftown.

This mechanic likely won't work if scum know what protectives are in the game as they could counter it.

I'm strongly in favor of proposition 2.

proposition 3: Massclaim who everyone targeted without claiming action. or claim not targeting anyone. This sets up the ground for a mass claim on later phases where scum might get caught in a lie.
Pro: No one will know what roles was used by who so existance of town utility will stay hidden from scum (unless if they have investigation roles to search for some utility on their own)
Pro: People cant change their claims later on when they have more info about existing roles in setup. This makes it hard for people to find a fake claim that fits the narrative.
Natural: This has same natural status as proposition 2.

I really think we need to claim targets every day and not necessarily the roles themselves. This setup requires a mass claim on later days probably and claiming targets can trap people in certain narratives where scum gets caught regardless - and still people will have the freedom to use their roles as they see fit.

[Titus]

Whats the rule of 3??

I'm shocked you don't remember this. Anytime a scum mentions three or more slots, there's a likelihood one of them is scum. In this case, there would be a scum in the green names, a scum in the light green names, and a scum in the yellow names. This would suggest that one of my SRs on Black or Drixx is wrong. I'd likely change over to an FA/Black or Drixx/Keysal based on interactions. (I'm supposing 4 scum).

It's not absolute as the GiF partner is a decent theory. However, it could be a whiteknight pocket. Based on the rule of 3, I'd just exclude or investigate GiF after a Klick flip.

[Titus]

I'll catch up in a second but I want to late out more nuanced thoughts on massclaim first.

Proposition 1: Massclaim all roles and actions every day.

Assumption: Roles stay the same day to day.
Pro: We know exactly what roles are in the game or there is scum in the VT claimers.
Pro: Scum find it harder to fake claim.
Con: A smart scumteam can still fake claim existing roles to complicate things.
Con: The scumteam know the exact capabilities of town any given day and have perfect planning for night actions. They have at least 12 people to come up with the perfect mechanical solution.

Assumption: Roles can change day to day. (Meaning a tracker shows up where none existed, cop removed, modifiers added etc.)
Mass claim every day for the prior night just becomes the smart play as past roles cannot determine future actions.

Proposition 2: Claim only roles with guilties or innos, successful protections, kills (vigilante, PGO etc) and negative utility roles (Alien/Commuter/Compulsive).
Pro: We gain information that is necessary in the short term.
Pro: Scum don't know what protectives are in the game (Doc, jailkeeper, bulletproof etc) until a kill is successfully blocked.
Pro: Scum can't night plan around what they don't know exists unless they roll it themselves some night.
Neutral: We can't dictate every single action. I find this a pro as we can't force a particular action so mech talk is less.
Neutral: Scum can fake claim, but they'd have to rely upon the prior holder being dead as an excuse. They run the risk of CCing a townie who is alive. (Assumption: Roles don't rerand.)

Unrelated Mech note
Follow the innocent is a thing in this game. If there is a cop, they check someone. Then someone else checks that cop. We hope to hit town. If we always hit town, then scum become boxed in. Suppose the following, Adam is town. Adam checks Brian who is town. Charlie then randoms cop. Charlie checks Brian who is town. That means if Charlie dies after his result and flips town both Adam and Brian are conftown.

This mechanic likely won't work if scum know what protectives are in the game as they could counter it.

I'm strongly in favor of proposition 2.

proposition 3: Massclaim who everyone targeted without claiming action. or claim not targeting anyone. This sets up the ground for a mass claim on later phases where scum might get caught in a lie.
Pro: No one will know what roles was used by who so existance of town utility will stay hidden from scum (unless if they have investigation roles to search for some utility on their own)
Pro: People cant change their claims later on when they have more info about existing roles in setup. This makes it hard for people to find a fake claim that fits the narrative.
Natural: This has same natural status as proposition 2.

I really think we need to claim targets every day and not necessarily the roles themselves. This setup requires a mass claim on later days probably and claiming targets can trap people in certain narratives where scum gets caught regardless - and still people will have the freedom to use their roles as they see fit.

I'd be down for combining 2 and 3. We still need guilties or innos in the open.

[Frozen Angel]

Whats the rule of 3??

I'm shocked you don't remember this. Anytime a scum mentions three or more slots, there's a likelihood one of them is scum. In this case, there would be a scum in the green names, a scum in the light green names, and a scum in the yellow names. This would suggest that one of my SRs on Black or Drixx is wrong. I'd likely change over to an FA/Black or Drixx/Keysal based on interactions. (I'm supposing 4 scum).

It's not absolute as the GiF partner is a decent theory. However, it could be a whiteknight pocket. Based on the rule of 3, I'd just exclude or investigate GiF after a Klick flip.

are these linked reads assuming klick is scum?

pedit: that's a given, guilties and innoes must always be claimed anyway

[Titus]

Whats the rule of 3??

I'm shocked you don't remember this. Anytime a scum mentions three or more slots, there's a likelihood one of them is scum. In this case, there would be a scum in the green names, a scum in the light green names, and a scum in the yellow names. This would suggest that one of my SRs on Black or Drixx is wrong. I'd likely change over to an FA/Black or Drixx/Keysal based on interactions. (I'm supposing 4 scum).

It's not absolute as the GiF partner is a decent theory. However, it could be a whiteknight pocket. Based on the rule of 3, I'd just exclude or investigate GiF after a Klick flip.

are these linked reads assuming klick is scum?

pedit: that's a given, guilties and innoes must always be claimed anyway

Yes. They're applications of the rule of 3 but changing my current reads slightly. I'm not sure on you though. Could easily swap you for Dunn. In fact I think I will do that.

[GuyInFreezer]

@FA I don’t. I believe I literally voted you just for wagon sake last time

[Titus]

FA, will you join me on Klick or are you deadset on DragonEater? I don't like Klick's trajectory on DragonEater which gives me real reservations.

[Drixx]

DE avoiding the game, and Titus up in here running cover.

[Thestatusquo]

DE avoiding the game, and Titus up in here running cover.

What would your worldview look like if DE flipped town?

[Frozen Angel]

FA, will you join me on Klick or are you deadset on DragonEater? I don't like Klick's trajectory on DragonEater which gives me real reservations.

I have some mixed feelings about Klick that makes me wanna iso dive him.

some stuff I find towny:
- him linking something he sees in this game with past experience with me, is showing they were really thinking about creating such link/our past experiences
- him asking repeatedly about how they can solve me and checking how I'm doing things to match with it and seeing if I'm lying about it

some stuff concern me:
- them misrepping my reads/efforts and then trying to shut me down arguing against it - but finally saying it was to get a substantial read from me without really digging into why they ever says they think I don't believe my reads (essentially dodging that question all over that discussion) I don't think it was a reaction test as they tried to show it at end so I'm concerned.
- them not going on gif/dropping a question while having them as scum and going on DE (which is a wagon I endorse) without a substantial reasons as you mentioned. I'm not a fan of linked reads but in my head its just a bit odd cause he cased me so hard to vote me and did absolutely nothing to vote DE which is a contrast.

so on a skim level I'm torn about what I wanna do regarding klick and what's my current read on the slot

[Drixx]

DE avoiding the game, and Titus up in here running cover.

What would your worldview look like if DE flipped town?

Evaluate everyone who took a hard stance on way or the other. Scum have been known to white knight for town slots for later cred, so it's not necessarily a world where if DE flipped green, the people counterwagoning get to be clear.

[Drixx]

I'm heading out to play EDH at the local game store. I'm wildly unlikely to check in again before tomorrow morning.

[Frozen Angel]

@FA I don’t. I believe I literally voted you just for wagon sake last time

sure,

why are you still voting me when I'm no longer a wagon? Don't you have any scum reads of your own to be voting?