TM 2023 | Mini Normal | Endgame

[ItalianoVD]

PAGE 30...

VOTE: italiano I have gotten all I need for now

Ready to end day

> The push on me doesn't work
> People talk about sussing italiano
> Instant pivot back to italiano

Very towny ISO. The Amazon Forest has nothing on the amount of green I see here.

You are so delusional and are bad at paying attention to the game you're in

Wow. That's the scummiest response to something I've ever seen you post. Please for my own ego be town.

Bro, did Shirou just beat my townlean into a scumlean?

737 feels like a white flag.

Don't know if anyone noticed, but in 496 I mentioned that Koba doesn't sort me, well I was being emotional. Koba sorts me in their own way and has been reasonable enough to townread me after I've shown at least enough towniness in their mind to do so.

I feel a sense of unreasonableness from Koba, I've felt it for a while, almost like nothing I say or do can even think of shaking their read of me. I don't know, maybe this is what Koba tunnelling feels like (I haven't been on the receiving end of this one), but all in all, I feel the unreasonableness is extremely scummy.

742 loses more oomph.

I don't know, things are flipping a bit for me regarding Koba. I've never played with Shirou, but the arguments here are compelling and I can't say too much against them. It'd be crazy if y'all was both scum playing us all. You better not be!

[ItalianoVD]

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Votecount 1.12

DkKoba (3):

mastina, Shirou, Kowahbunga

ItalianoVD (3):

Ausuka, DeasVail, DkKoba

Shirou (1):

Malakittens

Arko (1):

DrippingGoofball

DeasVail (1):

xofelf

Ausuka (1):

ItalianoVD


Not Voting (3): Arko, Aisa, Ydrasse

With 13 alive it takes 7 to eliminate.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2023-04-26 08:34:25)

Lol, this VC doesn't help Koba's case for me. People I townread or have a decent feeling about are voting Koba. Those I've had had questions about or are starting to have questions about are all voting me. You can't make this stuff up.

Okay 751 is a nice answer because it's what I felt from Xofelf myself.

Best I can do is focus on one person at a time to at least see if anything sticks out in a need to yeet immediately type of way.

With your lack of time and or energy (you said so yourself), going one by one seems very time consuming and something I don't feel like you would actually do.

Xoffy, you said Italiano looks like scum to you. Why are you so hesitant to vote for him?

Can someone please look at this slot and tell me why it doesn't have more pressure on it?

Oh, it's not hesitant to place a vote on him as much as I was hoping to hear back from him, and *then* I would vote there or if response was good enough and I re-evaluate, find a vote someplace else, possibly Arko. I'm not really a vote hopper, I vote when that's the person I want to yeet outside of RVS, and don't vote too often. I just want a little more beforehand, that's all.

This is reasonable, which can still be faked by scum, but I appreciate it.

You!

VOTE: Ausuka

760 761 & 762 brings a tear to my eye

https://media.giphy.com/media/TirjunBNb ... /giphy.gif

And yeah, the fact is I could be wrong on Ausuka, but I hope not and I don't think so.

Yeah I think your take is horseshit

Just like my perception?

Like half the game is either doing nothing for the past few days or spent it on a vote for arko because he didn't post anything and I'm the one not solving when I actually have a push I want to make and a case for it which you have just been incredibly dismissive about

What's your case again?

And I mean maybe you'll come up with a response that will blow my mind but I'm like 99% sure the "poor little italiano struggling to understand ausuka" thing is just pure made up nonsense

Nice misrepresentation and more dismissal.

Literally I ask him why he believes what he says about me and he just says "oh it's my perception that's the case"

No. You asked me about DGB and why I said what I said about her. Then I answered. Then you voted. THEN the talk about perception happened, where I said I perceived that your vote on me was a forgone conclusion given the weak question you asked me and lack of care/understanding or even more clarification issued upon my answer.

And like literally what is your problem with asking to clarify about something I'm suspicious of? Obviously a lot of the time it is not going to have a satisfying answer but like I don't instinctively know and understand all context and intention of the post

I literally told you in 92 and 101. That's a you problem for trying to read into what was posted something that wasn't in fact there and form your opinion based on that.

[ItalianoVD]

PAGE 32...

italiano just says i was always going to vote him, refuses to elaborate when i ask, sorts people in broad strokes by their activity level and then dips and that isn't even worth mentioning or talking about

Way to misrepresent once again what actually is going on.

For others:

My readslists are never based on activity. I couldn't careless if you have 300 posts or 3. I tonally read posts as I said and surmise if said post(s) would more than likely come from scum or town. I of course add in the context of interactions, knowability, meta, etc. It's of course not fullproof, nothing is, but I've gotten pretty great results because of it. I can't disagree about me dipping, but the readslist was BECAUSE I didn't have the time to post, so I wanted to leave the town with something, not because of an agenda.

That's just nitpicking. It's obvious what the idea of "not solving" implies and I think I've easily solved more than most slots in the game. I'm trying to actually push someone, which you have totally ignored all this time, while half of the game is just not voting.

Why do you think that is really? You think everyone is my scum partner?

[ItalianoVD]

Oh nice, so I'm actually all caught up. I'll do a readslist update tomorrow, but I'm tired from all the catching up and it's crazy late right now. Like I said I have much freer weekendthis week so I'll be able to be a bit more active for at least the next couple of days. Ciao.

[DrippingGoofball]

VOTE: Ausuka

Imma gonna sheep

[Ausuka]

No. You asked me about DGB and why I said what I said about her. Then I answered. Then you voted. THEN the talk about perception happened, where I said I perceived that your vote on me was a forgone conclusion given the weak question you asked me and lack of care/understanding or even more clarification issued upon my answer.

Please quote to me where you say this because I am pretty sure you totally refused to elaborate on the accusation when I asked

[Ausuka]

I am a little less sure italiano is scum and a little less sure DGB is town

[Ausuka]

Also the question to Mala kind of was a question just to question because she totally dropped off the face of the earth alongside several people and I wanted to ping her and give her something to respond to

I think I did the same thing with arko

[Ausuka]

Why do you think that is really? You think everyone is my scum partner?

No? People can do nothing and be town

[DeasVail]

Shea says paraphrased that he thinks you're reaction testing and it's very unhelpful

I think if you are reaction testing it would be a bit silly and pointlessly tilting but what does silly me who can't even think about the game know

Is this sort of reaction test something that Shirou often does? Because I didn't get that impression at all from his posts and I find it weird that that would have been an interpretation of Shirou's posting.

[Ausuka]

most of my experience with shirou was a long time ago. Shea told me he was 'theatrical' and he was reaction testing because that's how he plays. I can't say i got that impression either

[DeasVail]

I think Ausuka is scum because of her interaction with me. As I said when we were talking, I think her conclusion of scumreading me and voting me was preconceived and I think the questioning was for show, to make her look like she was trying to solve. Then when I said my perception was the reason I felt the way I did, she disregarded that as if it didn't matter. Scum unreasonableness.

Also her early RVS play was kinda sus, in which I called out in 358 and 368.

Xofelf is mainly gut that's why he's a weak scumlean. Reason being I feel like he is in the background looking at everything happen, but not really getting involved unless it's something he feels he needs to get involved in. Kinda like a referee. I've seen scum play like him, but to be honest after reading his ISO again, I didn't really feel like I initially felt, so lol I guess I gotta push him up a bit. Is there like a weak weak or very very weak scumlean color to use.

I'm curious why you're concerned about only those two? You agree with everyone else on my list?

Ausuka was your top scumread but iirc you hadn't posted much in the way of reasoning for it, and xofelf is someone who I strongly read as town so I was especially interested in why someone would scumread them.

I don't really get your reflex question to me though. I don't think I would routinely ask about every read I don't agree with? Plus my reads are (mostly) evident from my posting.

[DeasVail]

I don't think I have the energy for ~reasons~ right now but I think I would be moderately opposed to an Ausuka elimination rn.

My reads are currently at something like

[Kowahbunga, Aisa, Shirou, Xofelf]
[Ausuka, Malakittens]
[Ydrasse, Mastina, DkKoba, DGB]
[Arko, ItalianoVD]

but I think I need to look through things again in the morning as I feel very confirmation-biasy atm.

[PenguinPower]

Votecount 1.14

Ausuka (4):

ItalianoVD, Shirou, Aisa, DrippingGoofball

ItalianoVD (3):

Ausuka, DeasVail, DkKoba

DkKoba (2):

mastina, Kowahbunga

Shirou (1):

Malakittens

Not Voting (3): Arko, Ydrasse, xofelf

With 13 alive it takes 7 to eliminate.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2023-04-26 08:34:25)

Mod Notes

[ItalianoVD]

No. You asked me about DGB and why I said what I said about her. Then I answered. Then you voted. THEN the talk about perception happened, where I said I perceived that your vote on me was a forgone conclusion given the weak question you asked me and lack of care/understanding or even more clarification issued upon my answer.

Please quote to me where you say this because I am pretty sure you totally refused to elaborate on the accusation when I asked

Spoiler:

What do you think town would have done differently there?

No I wasn't actually scumreading Koba

Town does a lot of different things, so who knows, but I would've taken it in stride and kept an eye on them. My point is why ask a question if your vote is a forgone conclusion. To clarify, I'm not saying your vote was, but that's how I perceived it. You asked, I answered, my answers weren't good enough for you, vote.

Ok, so what about that suggests it was a foregone conclusion? Isn't that just contradictory to the idea that your answers weren't good enough?

My perception.

Also the question to Mala kind of was a question just to question because she totally dropped off the face of the earth alongside several people and I wanted to ping her and give her something to respond to

I think I did the same thing with arko

This is why I feel your dishonest, because you want the fairness of the benefit of the doubt, but refuse(d) to give it to me. You literally said you scumread me because I wasn't doing much or just doing stuff but not having substance. This is anti-town at best and straight up scum at worse.

Why do you think that is really? You think everyone is my scum partner?

No? People can do nothing and be town

Apparently according to you people can do nothing and be scum. So why were you not giving me this same sense of fairness you seem to want to have for yourself and others? This is what I felt about you then and your responses now are proving to me that I was right to feel the way I did.

I think Ausuka is scum because of her interaction with me. As I said when we were talking, I think her conclusion of scumreading me and voting me was preconceived and I think the questioning was for show, to make her look like she was trying to solve. Then when I said my perception was the reason I felt the way I did, she disregarded that as if it didn't matter. Scum unreasonableness.

Also her early RVS play was kinda sus, in which I called out in 358 and 368.

Xofelf is mainly gut that's why he's a weak scumlean. Reason being I feel like he is in the background looking at everything happen, but not really getting involved unless it's something he feels he needs to get involved in. Kinda like a referee. I've seen scum play like him, but to be honest after reading his ISO again, I didn't really feel like I initially felt, so lol I guess I gotta push him up a bit. Is there like a weak weak or very very weak scumlean color to use.

I'm curious why you're concerned about only those two? You agree with everyone else on my list?

Ausuka was your top scumread

but iirc you hadn't posted much in the way of reasoning for it

, and xofelf is someone who I strongly read as town so I was especially interested in why someone would scumread them.

You're right. At the time I wanted to get out my readslist so the town could have it, given the fact I knew my time was gonna be very limited to non-existent. The list however, was a very basic and barebone list, I just didn't have the time to really engage and fully breakdown why I felt the way I did. But now you have your answer as to why.

I don't really get your reflex question to me though. I don't think I would routinely ask about every read I don't agree with? Plus my reads are (mostly) evident from my posting.

You only had a problem with those two because you townread them which is fair, but from looking at your list below, we didn't/don't really differ in townreads and seeing how low DGB and Arko is neither did we differ that much on scumleans, so I guess instead of asking about why those, my real question is why do you scumread me? What is your case and why is it that you are so adamant about it and seemingly so confident (tunnelly) about it?

[Shirou]

most of my experience with shirou was a long time ago. Shea told me he was 'theatrical' and he was reaction testing because that's how he plays. I can't say i got that impression either

I've always been a bit of a jester so it's true I'm often "theatrical" but even clowns get serious sometimes you know

On hindsight it is a bit of a weird take because even if Shea has seen me fooling around, he also has seen me dead serious unrelentingly pushing MariaR

[ItalianoVD]

Updated readslist as promised. This is the more extensive and normal version of my readslist. Again subject to change. I could probably be wrong on the townleans and scumleans and should flip some slots, but for right now, I'm comfortable being here.

Shirou

- Shirou has a tie for top townread with Aisa. Sorry Shirou you're gonna have to share the spot for now. As I said I tone read posts and Shirou's posting has had a tone that only the very skilled and aware scum can truly fake. I haven't played with Shirou so don't know if this could be his scumrange. All in all he is green for me.

Aisa

- From her first post to her last I've gotten nothing but good feels from Aisa. She even scumreads people in an adorable way. I don't think I've ever played with her, but I'm very happy that potentially my last game on site has her in it. As I said if she is scum I'm gonna be very sad.

Malakittens

- I normally townread Mala, so she definitely is a blind spot for me if she ever is scum, but based on her posts and interactions, I do actually feel she is town here.

Ydrasse

- I don't know I just feel Ydrasse is town here, tonality in her posts are what mainly does it for me. I also wanna believe she is for other reasons and hope to see her answer my questions here here.

Mastina

- Mastina gets a weak townlean from me still. Reason she was here in the first place is that I share a neighborhood with her as I said before and I don't generally trust neighborhoods, but the things she has said in it feel genuine, but there is that possibility that she is scum so my paranoia keeps her at yellow.

Xofelf

- I said I was going to switch DV and Xofelf's positioning so for now Xofelf gets my yellow. I initially had a townlean on them and then didn't remember why and then felt that they were being careful and calculating scum, which is why they were lower down in the first place. It could still be the case that they're scum, but I'm willing to see them get more involved and get into more of their thoughts and interactions.

Kowahbunga

- I initially liked Kowah for his interaction with Koba and the subsequent postings around the slot. I had him null before because I just couldn't really pinpoint where his posts were coming from, as in town/scum. I can't say he has done anything to move the needle in either direction so that's why he's still here. I'd also like him to take a stance on me after 486.

DGB

- DGB could be scum or could be town, I honestly don't know right now. Off the dome, I'd say scum, which is why this is very weak. Her and Arko are the weakest of the scumreads for me.

DkKoba

- A combination of how adamant Koba is on scumreading me without any sense of reason or change as well as the interaction with Shirou is why Koba is here. The reason it's weak, however is because in the back of my mind I still can see town!Koba playing like this. I do probably have a blind spot with Koba though, which is why Shirou is such a gift because he made me think about why I just automatically bin Koba as "oh that's just Koba". A very compelling argument indeed which I think others should take a look at inwardly.

Arko

- Here by process of elimination. I find it hard to follow the direction of what Arko is trying to say. I'm pretty sure it's probably his playstyle maybe. It did seem kinda too easy for him to jump on my bandwagon, but again could be playstyle, not sure yet.

DeasVail

- I still gotta deepdive into DV's ISO, but he locked onto me early and hasn't let go. I was just giving him the benefit of the doubt before. I don't believe he could genuinely tunnel this early when their is no true scumcase on me. I believe it's more so scum sticking to a seemingly easy target to lim. Maybe upon looking at the ISO, I can hopefully come to a stronger conclusion.

Ausuka

- Don't think I need to say anything that hasn't already been said. I think everyone knows where I stand with Ausuka and why.

---

green

- strong townlean

blue

- medium townlean

yellow

- weak townlean

white

- null

orange

- weak scumlean

pink

- medium scumlean

red

- strong scumlean

[ItalianoVD]

but from looking at your list below

Sorry this was in response to 887. I was looking at your list as I was typing and it was below the post I had just quoted in my notes.

[xofelf]

Votecount 1.14

Ausuka (4):

ItalianoVD, Shirou, Aisa, DrippingGoofball

ItalianoVD (3):

Ausuka, DeasVail, DkKoba

DkKoba (2):

mastina, Kowahbunga

Shirou (1):

Malakittens

DeasVail (1):

xofelf

Not Voting (2): Arko, Ydrasse

With 13 alive it takes 7 to eliminate.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2023-04-26 08:34:25)

Mod Notes

Hey Penguin, I unvoted as of 754.


My intent today is to try to dig into this body pain and Taskmaster at 4 allow. But it is a bad day on the pain front, so it may be very late before this happens so pain meds have a chance to work.

[DkKoba]

I'm a bit busy today but a couple notes skimming the italiano posts:

1) there is misrepresentation of the context of things I said, with intent to make me look bad for logical takes(at least the shading actually is a scumread now, which I think is more out of "I need to stop looking scummy for not having this match up")
2) ironically this level of posting might be out of italiano's scumrange - but it still overall feels disgenuine, which creates a bit of a ??? - i still haven't had the opportunity to realign my reads after moving shirou up and viewing the game through that lens - but I have the vibe that italiano is still solidly bottom 3 and I want the slot resolved. The style of posting does somewhat remind me of Cerberus which I have taken into account as a plausibility thing for this dichotomy.

[DkKoba]

I am a bit concerned that none of Ausuka's teammates are really invested into this game, since it feels like an easy sort of game to analyze for some of her teammates but the content from her is good and I'm pretty sure shirou is working backwards via pre-flipping me- as there if you read a bit closely you can see the difference in how critical shirou is on italiano and on ausuka. a lot more forgiving for things italiano does, because dkkoba is pushing them. a lot more critical of what ausuka does because dkkoba is defending them. this is why i made the "playing checkers" comment earlier because that is how obvious and telegraphed the real reasoning is, and why I initially pushed on shirou - because I saw this kind of 1 dimensional shallow logic being dressed up which is typically a scum trait.

if your name isn't shirou or italiano i suggest blocking out shirou precisely because of how flawed their process is here and that they will loudly steer you on the wrong path with nice words that have little logical backing.

italiano knows i'm a threatening player - and thus it goes to show that it is most plausibly scum motivated to consistently shade my slot and egg on pushes on me while staying clean. And feeling unable to twist into a scumread, until the village jester Shirou decides to give an out to him to let him slowly twist it into a scumread(such convincing arguments shirou gave! as if it wasnt already similar things italiano was already shading me for, right?). This is what is happening. It is a little more obvious from my own POV because I have the knowledge of my own alignment within the equation, but italiano's gameplay has lined up more plausibly with a scum agenda rather than a town solving.

[ItalianoVD]

I am a bit concerned that none of Ausuka's teammates are really invested into this game, since it feels like an easy sort of game to analyze for some of her teammates but the content from her is good and I'm pretty sure shirou is working backwards via pre-flipping me-

as there if you read a bit closely you can see the difference in how critical shirou is on italiano and on ausuka. a lot more forgiving for things italiano does, because dkkoba is pushing them. a lot more critical of what ausuka does because dkkoba is defending them.

this is why i made the "playing checkers" comment earlier because that is how obvious and telegraphed the real reasoning is, and why I initially pushed on shirou - because I saw this kind of 1 dimensional shallow logic being dressed up which is typically a scum trait.

Mmm, I don't see it like this at all. Fmpov, Shirou's positioning around myself and Ausuka have nothing to do with you, but with myself and Ausuka.

italiano knows i'm a threatening player - and thus it goes to show that it is most plausibly scum motivated to consistently shade my slot and egg on pushes on me while staying clean. And feeling unable to twist into a scumread, until the village jester Shirou decides to give an out to him to let him slowly twist it into a scumread(such convincing arguments shirou gave! as if it wasnt already similar things italiano was already shading me for, right?). This is what is happening. It is a little more obvious from my own POV because I have the knowledge of my own alignment within the equation, but italiano's gameplay has lined up more plausibly with a scum agenda rather than a town solving.

To tell you the truth Koba, I don't actually see you as a threat and I've never seen you as a threat. When I'm town I see you as an annoyance because of your everywhere style of the play coupled with the arrogance of said play and as scum I see you as a commodity; able to keep the confusion in the town that me an my team want to have going. Your over inflated sense of worth is lost on me, especially because overall you have never pegged me right, well never is a bit of an exaggeration so I'd say like 95/5.

[ItalianoVD]

The style of posting does somewhat remind me of Cerberus which I have taken into account as a plausibility thing for this dichotomy.

Cerberus was amused my this.

[Shirou]

if your name isn't shirou or italiano i suggest blocking out shirou precisely because of how flawed their process is here and that they will loudly steer you on the wrong path with nice words that have little logical backing.

I'm gonna kindly tell you off

I was a little less critical on my push on you because making a push itself to apply pressure was part of the point to try to make you explain any of what you were doing or thinking. You were refusing to because you're "entitled to your process" and I didn't have enough time to make your wagon even bigger before deadline hit, so given I still had doubts about what your slot would flip I switched to someone I've less doubts about.

Your alignment is completely unimportant to how I see Ausuka or Italiano at the moment.

You keep trying to put yourself as a important piece of the chessboard of this game but at to me personally/my gamesolve you aren't yet at least.

I don't care what alignment you're right now, I think Ausuka is independently scummy, no matter yours or Italiano's alignments.

[Shirou]

Also Koba, you are trying to dismiss my points about Ausuka without talking about they.

"They are bad because I said so" - Koba

If you sarcastically say my points are "oh so convincing", I would say your counter-arguments are irrefutable then, because they don't even exist atm. How can you refute a point that was not even made? Genius idea.