Mini 2297 | Conception | Postgame

[Abnegation]

why can't he make a wrong assumption? he even admitted it was an assumption and he didn't know for sure.
i feel like you're purposely ignoring parts of his posts to push a narrative.

Of course he could! But from his posts and from our own knowledge, there's no good reason to assume he was wrong. It is only from

your

perspective that it's necessary to postulate uneven scum factional kills. Rauth adding in "I'm assuming we are the same as malediction" does not weaken his the information he conveyed to us in any material way nor should it weaken our own assumptions we can make off night kills.

I'm not sure why this is hard to understand

idk how to even respond to this.
just going to re-quote the posts here.

Which unfortunately could be reasoned out anyways, so. Ah well. And also in interest of supporting my win con, I'm afraid I should tell Malediction that Benediction will not be shooting Hell Froze Over tonight.

Invocation is the means to obtain both Benediction and Malediction. Affiliation with either is yet to be decided, I'd rather neither as the

freedom to invoke both and maintain balance

is crucial.

Bolded is what I'm talking about.

if that’s true, can you guys do invocation a favour and shoot them?

Neither Benediction or Malediction's intent in finding each other is to kill, but something else, though death will be the end result. It's why I wouldn't have claimed benediction unless I was going to die, even as a last resort.
I won't spoil what it is though.

... At least I assume Malediction has a similar situation as us. I don't actually know for certain!

i just don't get how you're drawing the conclusions that you are from these posts and how you're so confident in them.
600 doesn't mean they for sure have a kill; the reason they won't be shooting hfo could be because they can't.
603 actively suggests they don't. could be a lie but still.
604 is them telling us they don't actually know if the factions are symmetrical/in a similar situation.
this information he conveyed to us does not say what you're telling me it says.
i am seriously starting to think you have an ulterior motive here.

[Flavor Leaf]

Well, Night 1 my action was confirmed to go through to Keeper.

It's possible GreenScum sent out Flyers as a factional ability to light em up after RedScum2 have factional ability. If and only if redscum are wiped out.

because thinking about it, the 3 likely need some type of way to eliminate.

This means Feysal could be lying about their role.

[Hugir]

Also role interaction wise I’m p sure if one of the two targets cannot be redirected bus driver’s action fails

[Flavor Leaf]

Which unfortunately could be reasoned out anyways, so. Ah well. And also in interest of supporting my win con, I'm afraid I should tell Malediction that Benediction will not be shooting Hell Froze Over tonight.

Ah, so yeah, Green probably is the one without factional kills then.

Flyer arsonist paranoia definitely goes up.

However, most of the other Twilight posting seems genuine. I want to look at the flavor stuff for Keeper/Rauth, see what they were talking about, but Keeper is on my Red list possibility for sure. This could have been a Green Team move to unlock another ability or something. Like to use Ability A you must confirm 1 player as not Benediction.

[Flavor Leaf]

Te fact Feysal waited until after Rauth showed up and gave up is nasty to me.

I really do think Feysal just flips Green here like 90% of the time.

[Flavor Leaf]

I don't think that explains it; why would rauth advise red to kill the IC if green was going to turn around and do it anyway?

it's possible he knew they didnt have a factional kill. why would he talk to red anyways? they arent on the same team. Could have been to imply Red was making the kill that green did.

I think that gives more merit to green making that kill tbh

The more likely reason was to avoid double killing. Again, it really does not sound from Rauth's posts at the time he was unnecessarily lying. Those posts had a rather obvious purpose to me. Reread them - what do you think?

I hadn't read most of those before, and was focusing more on Feysal ISO rather than Rauths. Twilight posting, yeah, they're genuine imo.

I don't see how it implies Feysal?

[Flavor Leaf]

I don't think that explains it; why would rauth advise red to kill the IC if green was going to turn around and do it anyway?

it's possible he knew they didnt have a factional kill. why would he talk to red anyways? they arent on the same team. Could have been to imply Red was making the kill that green did.

I think that gives more merit to green making that kill tbh

The more likely reason was to avoid double killing. Again, it really does not sound from Rauth's posts at the time he was unnecessarily lying. Those posts had a rather obvious purpose to me. Reread them - what do you think?

this only makes sense if Abnegation is scum who was making the kills, imo. is this what you are pushing?

[Abnegation]

flyer arsonists? that's genius.

[Hugir]

Keeper might be Malediction due to some phrasing they used that was in flavor provided to Benediction and I assume would also be in Malediction's.

But yes this game is an example of why I should not actually post my unfiltered thoughts, it gets me eliminated.

Insert Flavour

Light flees from The Keeper; They are not a disciple of

Benediction

.

Insert More Flavour

Hell Froze Over,

Deification

, was deleted but their spirit lives on.

Spoiler: Deification

Salutations, you are a manifestation of

Deification

!

Role Abilities:

• Deification (Passive)
  : As a manifestation of
  Deification
  , all actions, except for deletions, will fail on you, as though they were blocked.
  
• Deification (Passive)
  : As a manifestation of
  Deification
  , you are publicly confirmed to be a disciple of
  Invocation
  , and if you are ever erased, you will instead be stumped, losing all of your abilities except your voice.

Win Condition:

• You win if all threats to the disciples of
  Invocation
  are erased and at least one
  Invocation
  -aligned concept remains.

Confirm by replying to this PM with a summary of your role.

They may continue speaking though they will be counted as erased.

Would this and TKeeper’s not-benediction thing be related?

[Hugir]

With that said I’m at ER rn and my phone battery is at 4% so I won’t be here soon

[ActionDan]

Maybe I'll ask the audience since we've gone over this so many times: Do you agree or not?

I'll reiterate my stances:

1) if factions are symmetrical as Rauth thinks they are in 604 even if he 100% doesn't know then 600 was pointless to say if they had a non-standard kill as Malediction would likely know already benediction couldn't shoot.
2) contextually we have an unclaimed cop power from scum in the game which easily fits what he is talking about, moreover he's responding to post specifically asking him to target the other scumteam
3) 604 makes no difference to the info he's provided materially. No one can be sure of anything in this game.

Also none of what he's said in this posts strikes me as a lie. Your milage may vary though.

Like the evidence is that you were roleblocked twice and there's only been one kill a night. Rauth's posts do not present and imo only strengthen if anything the fact that each side has a standard factional kill and have something else non-standard in other ways, i.e., the cop

cut by a bunch

[ActionDan]

this only makes sense if Abnegation is scum who was making the kills, imo. is this what you are pushing?

YES LOL

[ActionDan]

Like you're rationalizing Ab not being green scum and thus going for Feysal green scum because of it. Whereas I think best green scum candidate is Ab atm.

[Abnegation]

rauth's assumption was closer to "benediction's kill is altered, therefore it is likely malediction's kill is also altered" than "factional abilities are symmetrical." yes, they are closely related, but they aren't the same thing.

[ActionDan]

Posts: 33398
Joined: July 18, 2017
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Post Post #1279 (ISO) » Sat Apr 22, 2023 11:20 pm

Te fact Feysal waited until after Rauth showed up and gave up is nasty to me.

I really do think Feysal just flips Green here like 90% of the time.

I maintain that the only one to not look greenscum from Rauth Wagon and VCA is me. I do not think Feysal has more chance than others from that based on their votes and why the votes were made imo. I do not deny its that looking only at the votes for rauth over the course of D1 from Feysal precludes them from being Greenscum. As you said if that were the case the interpretation of them would be distancing and then backing out when they accrued votes. If you'd like we can go over all of the votes for Rauth / Ice over the course of D1.

cut: are you talking about 600?

Which unfortunately could be reasoned out anyways, so. Ah well. And also in interest of supporting my win con, I'm afraid I should tell Malediction that Benediction will not be shooting Hell Froze Over tonight.

Again I want to ask the audience. I don't get that from this post. or 603

[Abnegation]

1288 was in reference to 603.

[ActionDan]

Neither Benediction or Malediction's intent in finding each other is to kill, but something else, though death will be the end result

This reads to me as "We are not out to kill [Malediction], but [Expose them], though death will be the end result [by town's hands]". Your interpretation is "We can't kill [Malediction], but [fuck them up], though death will be the end result".

I think my way is better and even if yours is correct, we can see at one of them can kill invocation targets just fine. Again no reason to suspect this isn't symmetrical.

[Flavor Leaf]

Yeah, if scum are even, and it’s just as simple as blocked kills, Abnegation was in No Man’s Land as Green Scum in a 2v2 world.

This also means that if Furt is RedScum, then they are not dying, and we will have to end up fading them at some point. I’m okay sitting that back for now.

It does go in line with Abneg pushing Fey as Red not Green.

[Flavor Leaf]

So Abnegation green, Hugir/Keeper red holds a lot of weight as scum, tbh

[Abnegation]

Neither Benediction or Malediction's intent in finding each other is to kill, but something else, though death will be the end result

This reads to me as "We are not out to kill [Malediction], but [Expose them], though death will be the end result [by town's hands]". Your interpretation is "We can't kill [Malediction], but [fuck them up], though death will be the end result".

I think my way is better and even if yours is correct, we can see at one of them can kill invocation targets just fine. Again no reason to suspect this isn't symmetrical.

yes, but that doesn't address 1288.

[Flavor Leaf]

Furt and AD are my backup scums, but I’m willing to ride for now

[Abnegation]

it's about time i VOTE: actiondan.

[Flavor Leaf]

Why now?

[ActionDan]

Sounds good.

VOTE: Abnegation

[ActionDan]

I'm going to play video games and enjoy my night for a while. Can Enchant / IC / Keeper exist in the meantime. Thanks.