Amnesiac Mafia: The Movie! That's a Wrap!

[Dunnstral]

You're the person who knows the most about how you would play as scum vs as town and what is different about this game based on your alignment.

I don't really. When Giga and MariaR used to play here they've be able to call my alignment pretty consistently and I didn't know how they were doing it at all. I later learned that I apparently got really defensive and would preemptively call mariar mafia if I thought they were eluding towards a scumread on me.

When I play as mafia I try to play it as if I were town. I still have a general feel of what is towny and what is scummy, and I will still try to call out scummy things. I know they're not actually mafia, but I can still see things as scummy and towny, so I'm not making up reasoning when I play mafia. I just know that they're actually town.

[Dunnstral]

From past experience usually I am more charismatic as mafia. When I'm town not so much and everybody leans towards me being mafia, and then I get into a kerfuffle and they grudgingly put me to null until the end of the game. As mafia I can slip into townreads for a few days before things collapse due to mech or poe closing.

[Klick]

'Town casing myself' is not at all my strong point and I don't really know where to begin. I can show you what I've been doing this game but I can't show you how it is different from how I would do things if I were mafia. I'm not even aware of how I'd be doing things differently if I were mafia.

I don't need you to prove to me that you wouldn't play this way as scum, your awareness of it is enough and I can make my own assessment. So don't worry about that

My thoughts on me are that I've been saying whatever is on my mind. When i find something that looks like a contradiction I point it out or ask for clarification. When I don't understand something in the thread I push for clarification. When I see something mech related with claimed roles I point it out if it is helpful (such as us being able to clear firebringer if the roles align right). When I agree with a player or don't like the way they are being pushed I sometimes make those thoughts known and sometimes keep them to myself. I give my own opinions on things, sometimes without committing to a read for every interaction, and try not to tunnel by considering what even people I suspect are saying.

Do you feel like this is different from how you generally approach games when you draw scum instead of town? Or is it something like, when you're scum you generally do your best imitation of that play, but it isn't as authentic?

Can you remember any time moderately recently that you felt someone caught you as scum for what you felt were valid reasons?

[Klick]

From past experience usually I am more charismatic as mafia. When I'm town not so much and everybody leans towards me being mafia, and then I get into a kerfuffle and they grudgingly put me to null until the end of the game. As mafia I can slip into townreads for a few days before things collapse due to mech or poe closing.

This is insightful, I have noticed this myself and it's what I ultimately fell on as reasoning for shooting you that time we played together and I was Vig. You tried to push me as scum there, I pushed on your reasoning a bit, and you backpedaled in a charismatic way that made me not want to pursue further. Short-term it was effective, but long-term it made me think you were likely scum.

So I'd say this is an accurate take.

[Klick]

Actually I think a large part of my gut reservations with you are that I feel like I've been getting more charismatic Dunnstral instead of standard Dunnstral all around
But it's hard to make an accurate read on that because it's entirely possible to express more charisma than usual for reasons that aren't AI
And also 'I'm enjoying your presence more than usual therefore you're scum' is not the most enjoyable take in the world and it's not particularly weeds that I feel like getting into deeply for the sake of a more enjoyable experience

[Klick]

Anyway, going to sleep on this. Thanks for engaging with me on it, I feel like this was productive.

[Pink Ball]

I don’t want to be rude to Dunn but I don’t feel he has been charismatic at all on this game, for what is worth

[Klick]

I felt like his earlier posts in the game were rather towny by that metric
Since then I have felt underwhelmed
But it's worth a look through his ISO when I have time tomorrow

[Klick]

I've played like 3ish games in a row with Titus where she has been scum and in this game I'm getting a zeal from her that I haven't felt in other games. I think she's engaged her town solving brain in a way that she wasn't quite there for in the last few games I've been in with her.

It could be Team Mafia making her tryhard even if she's scum but I'm enjoying her content so far regardless and am fine to boost what she's currently doing for the thread.

LLD says that the zeal could be explained by finally rolling town, or it could be that this is a large event that most people are excited for. Meaning zeal and enthusiasm aren't really AI this game.

I'm interested in where LLD is currently at on Titus btw? And the game at large as well I suppose

[Klick]

UNVOTE:

Went ahead and skimmed through your ISO. You're very likely town in this game

I'm interested in who you and your team are currently suspecting and why

Time for sleep

[Dunnstral]

Can you remember any time moderately recently that you felt someone caught you as scum for what you felt were valid reasons?

Nothing was in my memory so I went through my past role pms and games for this. Here is what I saw:

-A game where I lived and won
-A 3p game where I died before I could post again and switch my claim to 3p (also I wasn't a strictly harmful 3p so not sure this counts)
-A replacement into the last mafia slot at E-1; I did not have a large influence in this game
-And then the game you talked about where you shot at me

That was ~10 months ago but seems to be the most recent example. I congratulated you for your shot in post game, but didn't otherwise leave thoughts in post-game/dead thread and I don't remember what was going on.

Beyond that I see Invictus mafia, where I was

also

shot during the night instead of eliminated during the day. I congratulated a town member for making it far into the game when I was trying to look paired with them.
And then a newbie game where I rolled mafia but replaced out due to non game related reasons pretty early into the game.

And then finally control mafia, I was eliminated on day 4. This one was probably fair, but the game is long and it's hard to tell what people were voting me for. I think there were longstanding suspicions on me and then I tried to fake claim a role and it wasn't bought. This happened 15 months ago and I'd say this is the most recent game where I was eliminated during the day as mafia by the town and it was a game I had a substantial part in.

[Dunnstral]

I've played like 3ish games in a row with Titus where she has been scum and in this game I'm getting a zeal from her that I haven't felt in other games. I think she's engaged her town solving brain in a way that she wasn't quite there for in the last few games I've been in with her.

It could be Team Mafia making her tryhard even if she's scum but I'm enjoying her content so far regardless and am fine to boost what she's currently doing for the thread.

LLD says that the zeal could be explained by finally rolling town, or it could be that this is a large event that most people are excited for. Meaning zeal and enthusiasm aren't really AI this game.

I'm interested in where LLD is currently at on Titus btw? And the game at large as well I suppose

LLD hasn't taken a look at my game in a long time. Not a dig at them, I just haven't asked. I don't have more current reads from them - last thing I asked was about the masons and my team did not believe that claim (but I personally did), and then I had to explain to them that neighbors would be the same as masons (they suggested that Kuribo was a neighbor gambitting, which was pretty close to the truth in hindsight except that they would still be town). LLD said that if no other player claimed Kuribo's role it was either a lie or a special role (not sure what that last part meant actually) BUT LLD has not been keeping track of the game or reading Kuribo at all so that is just their gut reaction to the claim as I explained it.

[Dunnstral]

As for my own thoughts on Titus, I've felt bad about her IRL circumstances but still ultimately felt she could be mafia in this game. Recently I am considering what Save The Dragons was saying about their posts about mech maybe indicating that they are town. Not sure either way right now.

[Dunnstral]

I don’t want to be rude to Dunn but I don’t feel he has been charismatic at all on this game, for what is worth

I don't consider this offensive

[Dunnstral]

UNVOTE:

Went ahead and skimmed through your ISO. You're very likely town in this game

I'm interested in who you and your team are currently suspecting and why

Time for sleep

I think I need to make some tough calls on removing people from my townreads because I'm not sure who is mafia right now. I was townreading Feysal yesterday, and before it was cool to do so, but started scumreading DragonEater for what I felt were good reasons near the end of the day - that didn't work out.

For town right now I have Black, You (Klick), Kuribo/Ircher based on claims (I always had a positive impression on Kuribo, not sure if I voiced that, but I didn't like Ircher's slot), Frozen Angel, Pink Ball
And then a tier below that but still not interested in eliminating right now: Firebringer, Save The Dragons
And going back and forth with Thestatusquo (Sometimes I feel they can be mafia but then sometimes I feel they make posts that make me think otherwise. And I'm not sure why they'd put me at null instead of agreeing with me being mafia but maybe that is too focused on myself)
And then I have Drixx low for their own content which I am not a big fan of except that they are going back and forth on Titus and their interactions don't feel like two mafia. And GuyInFreezer who is really uninspiring and I feel could easily be mafia. Actually now that I am writing this out I should really be pushing this slot and am not sure why I have been giving them so much leeway.
And then Titus at the bottom. I feel they are being obstinate and purposely not changing their point of view because it would be hard to come up with new organic thoughts as mafia.

[Dunnstral]

Spoiler:

So far the people I’m not townreading atm and/or needs to be sorted are

{Dunn, TSQ, FA, Black, Drixx, Feysal, Klick}

Assuming 3 scum

Hey that’s not actually that bad
I thought I would be much behind

Subtract Feysal and Drixx

I get Dunn TSQ FA Black Klick

Out of those 5 TSQ is the greenest
This is actually becoming spicy PoE list ngl

GiF why am I in your poe list? Give me a short explanation.

GiF why am I in your poe list? Give me a short explanation.

I think I have better chance at reading you correctly at later game days than D1

Spoiler:

im just outting my role yesterday.
as i said before the flavr was corrupt judge
i basically get to target two people and then they can't target each other the following night.

i asked the mod to confirm if that means that it would only block actions between the two on night 2 and i was told yes. So i couldn't use it to prevent a kill. Unless i can predict a whole other night in advance. Even if it worked last night i didn't target feysal so its w/e

ohh and also the two people i target are informed they are visited by an arbiter when i visit.

Firebringer can potentially be confirmed town if one of their night 1 targets got a targeting role that allows them to tell whether their ability works or not.

This role can't be used to block the kill because your target is informed and mafia can have a different member perform the kill if you target them.

There's something we're missing here. I am becoming leery of the mass claiming the more we get into it.

If the roles claimed are correct there could be as many as 6 conf. town right now just on being able to be confirmed to have taken an action with a role. This simply can't be the setup. Scum has to have some way to fuck with this.

As far as I’m aware from all the claimed role lovers are the only hardconfirmable ones

Scum prob has something like roleblocker to mess with things

So here is something that is of interest to me. In the first set of spoilered quotes GuyInFreezer has a PoE list of 5 players on day 1, and goes on to say that TSQ is the "greenest". We are looking at a game with 3-4 mafia, probably leaning towards 4 being more likely, and GuyInFreezer calls it a PoE list in their own words. I go on to ask them why I am in this list, and they respond that they have a better chance of reading me correctly on later games days.

In the second set of spoilered quotes I show my own post where I explain how Firebringer can be confirmed and GuyInFreezer I feel ignores my post completely in their post shown here.

So my assertion here is that GuyInFreezer, as town, should be paying more attention to me given what they said on day 1 and their supposed closing PoE. Instead they seem to be completely ignoring me... and let me remind you that I am not only in his PoE, but was on an incorrect elimination the previous day. So to me, it doesn't make sense that GuyInFreezer is still coasting and... just straight up not reading my posts. They don't care at all. And I think that points to them being mafia.

VOTE: GuyInFreezer

[GuyInFreezer]

What I meant my hardconfirmable = able to be confirmed free of intervention (FB’s role can be roleblocked)

Also I spent bulk of my today not playing mafia and doing this instead

[Dunnstral]

So I totally misunderstood you.

UNVOTE: GuyInFreezer

Will think on this more later. Firebringer's role already went off and can't be retroactively roleblocked but I guess the two players they have targeted can be. And there is no way for those two players to know who each other are without claiming. (And no guarantee that those players are even town)

[Thestatusquo]

I did shit at bowling and I'm here for a bit before passing out. Anyone have thoughts for me

[Firebringer]

I did shit at bowling and I'm here for a bit before passing out. Anyone have thoughts for me

Go sleep

[Thestatusquo]

hm ok.

[Klick]

What I meant my hardconfirmable = able to be confirmed free of intervention (FB’s role can be roleblocked)

Also I spent bulk of my today not playing mafia and doing this instead

What is this? I know nothing about it but it looks interesting regardless

[kuribo]

Looks like House Flipper to me

[Pink Ball]

I'm waiting to see if anyone claims my D2 role as their role yesterday because that should either confirm me as town or confirm someone else as scum

Black, I initially ignored this because I read it backwards, but I saw you claimed VT on D1 so...
A question, should the person that had your role on D1 be conftown too in case there were no interferences?

[Pink Ball]

Sorry for going back to mech talk but Jingle lent me a hand and we could be up to something