TM 2023 | Mini Normal | Endgame

[xofelf]

Those are some interesting thoughts Ydra. Need to give them some time to marinate in my brain when I'm not sleep-deprived, but you might be on to something.

[xofelf]

Shea also thought dgb was scum! Although he said he didn't remember much about her meta

He might just be right! Like, I'm not as married to my DGB townread today as I was feeling yesterday. When she did show up, in comparison to other slots, her vibe was in the box I expect her town to fall in much more so than other people were presenting. It doesn't mean she's not scum, just something I'd need something more nonsensical from her along with promises to catch up/read that never follow through.

[Ausuka]

Shea also thought dgb was scum! Although he said he didn't remember much about her meta

Ok this is maybe sort of misleading? I asked him to iso them and he said that there was nothing towny in their iso and he didn't like how they were ok with all the wagons but it's not like a read he has been passionately advocating for

Similarly MT said something along the lines of "dgb is scummy but I always think that"

[Kowahbunga]

VOTE: mastina

okay so let me lay this out: my townread on mastina was premature and ill-explained because it was not a real one from the start.
in the neighborhood she opened by it wanting to be a masonry, etc. she stated that she believed that her role made it a masonry as it was an investigative and she thought that it was meant to clear/check people in her hood. the basis of my townread in the neighborhood was that "oh, she REALLY does trust us if she's outing that!" because i wanted to let it slide for role-related reasons (as in, /my/ role.)

mastina "checked" malakittens. mastina

straight up claimed to be a rolecop in the neighborhood.

her claim came after mala posted her role in the main thread. i also know for a fact that mastina did something last night, so she has taken some form of night action. this information comes from my role, and i will not explain further unless it is necessary. i'm prone to believe that mastina is actually a roleblocker of some kind.

mala's action not going off while mastina is claiming to have visited her sure is uh. something. i somewhat feel as if the rolecop was tailored to mala posting her role in thread, as mastina previously claimed her role would

check players to check their alignment

in the neighborhood which, semantics i guess if she thinks roles are heavily tailored to alignment or something, but this feels more like an opportunity taken to work with given information. however, i feel with the roles given out thus far rolecop (my role + the two fruit folk) that a simple rolecop would be a deeply... inelegant take on the setup? i feel like this comes down to speculating on the setup some, but it feels oddly slotted in to have a role that just gives us that kind of information as town. (or at least, compared to my role? frankly i am unsure of the power balances, etc). i also feel like her trying to make the neighborhood a masonry from the start and the strong reads on me is a pocket. i've spoken to my team about this for a while now throughout the game and from the get-go and this is kind of the culmination of it.

i'm genuinely sorry if you're town and i've outted your role mastina but this feels like it's a wolf gambit. i also had the thought that perhaps she was coordinating with someone in mala's neighborhood to get information such as the roleclaim (which i do think is possible beyond mala just sharing her role in thread because mastina seems to be in and out of this game, attention wise for reasons she's stated).

so yeah. do with this information what you will but it feels like wolf shenanigans.

I can get behind this and believe it.

VOTE: mastina

[Freedom]

I think that it makes sense to think that there would be a lone VT but that sort of thing would scarcely pass review.
So while I feel like Shirou's thoughts are genuine, I doubt it is actually true.

I've no idea how he reached the conclusion this couldn't be the case, but I think I like this post assuming the scumteam was aware of the "VT = IC" factor of this setup/game.

Can you explain your thought process here? Why did you think my theory wasn't likely true? Who else could be a VT if everyone left alive is in a neighborhood?

In my personal experience, the NRG is very unlikely to allow a setup to pass review with everybody being a Neighbor and a lone VT. That would be too much of a Mini Theme than a Mini Normal.
I'm not disputing your point that if everybody left alive is in a hood, Aisa was most likely killed for being the hypothetical lone VT, but I feel like this would make this game too much of a theme and too less of a Normal.

[DrippingGoofball]

dgb would be the only other person who would know her target, presumably

Uh?

[Freedom]

That being said I think sometimes it is an important skill to know when to give up

VOTE: Freedom

pls explain your DV read and any other reads you have

My DV read is based of the timing of his unvotes.
Like he votes me in 1316 but immediately after I post my thoughts on Shirou's theory, he unvotes.
I'm leaning towards one of you/Mala being scum due to role claims.
My team thinks mastina could be scum and what (I think) Ydra said about mastina targeting Mala and Mala's action being interfered with, could mean mastina is scum.
Shirou gives me townvibes based of interactions and posts.
I think xof genuinely wants to sort me.

[Freedom]

And Koba, I think seems super aggressive.
I need to check if that's normal for them.

[mastina]

How could you possibly have any sense of my scum game capabilities?

Honestly, I dunno. I guess I kinda just assumed? You're a competent player, I just kinda assumed that competence extended to scumplay I guess.

Why can't malakittens be a mafia odd night fruit vendor

Well, she can be.

I just don't think she is.

mastina "checked" malakittens. mastina

straight up claimed to be a rolecop in the neighborhood.

her claim came after mala posted her role in the main thread

Yeah no fucking shit dumbass.

Why do you think I posted "fucking hell" when quoting Mala's post where she claimed?


Why do you think the wording of 1308 was what it was?

"I just kinda wish Mala hadn't said it here yet."
HERE, in the

game thread

. YET.
As in, before I could fucking post to the neighborhood my result.

The order of events is:
I stated I was investigating Malakittens.
I investigated Malakittens.
I got a result on Malakittens, but I was stuck in work for until 12 hours after.

Malakittens claimed in the gamethread within those 12 hours I was at work.

I claimed in the neighborhood upon getting home from work,

without having read the game thread

.

I then started to catch up on the game thread.

I wouldn't fucking lie and you should fucking know it.

I INVESTIGATED Malakittens.
Investigated.

I am in fact a rolecop.

I thought my role was better designed to get guilties rather than innocents, and thought it was designed to investigate my neighborhood. (At the time I thought our neighborhood was the only one in the game. In hindsight, with the knowledge of there being multiple neighborhoods, it's probably vice-versa and better designed to get innocents, but I digress.) I thought a guilty on Malakittens would be more valuable than a guilty on Koba or Freedom.

I wouldn't fucking lie about investigating Malakittens. (I have to be very careful about my wording there to not get banned by the listmods since I'm on thin ice for a bullshit rule but you should know exactly what my policy there is and why it is my philosophy. Suffice to say, the tl;dr is it'd be playing against my wincon to tell a lie I could get caught in.)

I don't know what caused Malakittens's role to fail--but it sure ain't my role because I fucking rolecopped her. Her having claimed publicly after I rolecopped her means my rolecop was a

waste

, but it doesn't fucking mean it was a LIE. I had no way of knowing she'd claim today when I targeted her, now, did I?

[mastina]

She announced she was going to target Mala on the hood?
That's...a really weird gambit if scum to be honest.

Yeah it's almost like I trusted my neighborhood to be town and partially claimed in part to test if that trust was warranted!

When I said I was a mason, I meant it.

If I were killed or my action failed when the only people who knew about my investigative claim (I declined on revealing what I was specifically), then the neighborhood would have scum within.

But it succeeded, so I knew the neighborhood was far more likely to be trustworthy.

I literally opened today hinting at it.

The neighborhood actually has me leaning town on Malakittens rn. (My neighborhood, that is.)

I stated the neighborhood was dead because it is. It has only two pages in it, and not a single post since I gave my result.

What could have gone on in a dead neighborhood to make me lean town on Mala?

In 1306, why did I say Ausuka's claim was probably a town role? Which my neighborhood can confirm, reflects what I said on Malakittens's role. (I literally said "I think that's a town role", because I don't think a compulsive fruit vendor is a role scum would have.)
My town pool is my neighborhood (which I think is scum-free) and the fruit vendors (plus Shiro off of play) for damn good reason.

I was upset at Italiano outting our neighborhood D1 and am upset at Ydrasse outting my role today but we are still just as much an all-town 'hood as always.

I rolecopped Malakittens.
That Malakittens claimed before I could give the result is something I'm well fucking aware of. It doesn't mean I'm making it up. I didn't cause her role to fail. So whatever did that is from a different player.

[mastina]

Did the neighbourhood know that mastina was planning to target mala before end of N1?

Yes.
I claimed investigative in pretty much my first post in there. Literally within first 24 hours of day.
I didn't claim what type, but did claim the role. I initially was planning to target internally, on Ydrasse > DGB, when I didn't have townreads on them. And then when I gained townreads, I specified I'd prefer to target externally. All during the day.
But, dead neighborhood was dead, so nobody gave me feedback.

So when day ended, there was basically no posts there.
I posted I was investigating Malakittens, but did not specify what type of investigative I am.
Then I did.

And once I could post my results, I did. Since posting results required me to claim, I did.

[mastina]

mastina is her second? third? account, i forget but her original join date is also old af.

Third! And I joined in 2008. Which isn't

old

old, but yeah at this stage is old.

[xofelf]

Honestly, I dunno. I guess I kinda just assumed? You're a competent player, I just kinda assumed that competence extended to scumplay I guess.

No that's like, completely fine. I can't say I've had anybody call me a competent player either, so that's all nice and fuzzy, thank you.

[DeasVail]

That being said I think sometimes it is an important skill to know when to give up

VOTE: Freedom

pls explain your DV read and any other reads you have

My DV read is based of the timing of his unvotes.
Like he votes me in 1316 but immediately after I post my thoughts on Shirou's theory, he unvotes.
I'm leaning towards one of you/Mala being scum due to role claims.
My team thinks mastina could be scum and what (I think) Ydra said about mastina targeting Mala and Mala's action being interfered with, could mean mastina is scum.
Shirou gives me townvibes based of interactions and posts.
I think xof genuinely wants to sort me.

That happened after you said you scumread me though

[DrippingGoofball]

Mastina is bleeding town so hard that the forensic team has to be called.

[Malakittens]

Ngl I feel like someone else targeted me as well.

I mean I basically counter claimed ausuka and hardcore crumbed my role.
I feel like scum!Mastina would have picked up on it.

[DkKoba]

Hi I'm alive, I asked teammates to keep tabs on this game and all I got was jingle saying mastina claim probably doesn't fit the setup. but we agree the fact that Mala claimed too quick means the lack of result in hood before claim is NAI for role proving. If she is scum she probably is true claiming

[DkKoba]

VOTE: mastina balling

[Ausuka]

i mean i didnt pick up that mala was 'counter claiming' me? i wouldn't have thought that was really possible anyway since my role is provable and also not really worth fakeclaiming because it's not that towny

[PenguinPower]

Votecount 2.04

Freedom (3):

DeasVail, Malakittens, Ausuka

mastina (3):

Ydrasse, Kowahbunga, DkKoba

DeasVail (1):

Freedom

DkKoba (1):

mastina

Not Voting (3): xofelf, DrippingGoofball, Shirou

With 11 alive it takes 6 to eliminate.

Day 2 deadline is in (expired on 2023-05-06 22:19:17)

Mod Notes

DkKoba is v/la through 5/2

[DrippingGoofball]

VOTE: mastina balling

No

[DrippingGoofball]

VOTE: DkKoba

[Ausuka]

mastina is ur claim just town rolecop?

[Ausuka]

That being said I think sometimes it is an important skill to know when to give up

VOTE: Freedom

pls explain your DV read and any other reads you have

My DV read is based of the timing of his unvotes.
Like he votes me in 1316 but immediately after I post my thoughts on Shirou's theory, he unvotes.

This happened after you voted DV? Also what's the problem with his rationale for unvoting there

[Shirou]

if you already claimed the main role, can we also get a confirmation about whether there is anything else you want to claim Mastina?

Like, I assume by what you said that rolecop is your full claim?