In post 4137, Firebringer wrote:
i am iffy on the idea of breaking the game with mech considering me and my team just bamboozled the mech so hard in demon slayer that town couldn't think straight with the mech allowing us to get a victory. Also i find arguments of playing just to the mech rather than reads to be....defeating the purpose of 90% of the game. Id rather use it as a fallback if i really can't find scum in how people are positioning.
Like i think theres a few mech exploits scum can do with these "links" to either rule themselves out or obfuscates the clears.
Counterpoint: the first team mafia game I was in (whichever one I was teamed with amrun and chesskid) I ended up in the large theme which was a variation of powerful wizard
Powerful wizard being a concept invented by SpyreX who happened to be in the game. Despite not knowing the exact setup (obviously), he managed to completely mechanically break it for town.
At which point hopefully in 2023 mods have learned not to create mechanically broken setups
In post 4149, Klick wrote:
Hypothetical scum power: scum have access to one-time uses of each role card, or certain role cards, or can remember roles that they have been given in the past
In post 4137, Firebringer wrote:
i am iffy on the idea of breaking the game with mech considering me and my team just bamboozled the mech so hard in demon slayer that town couldn't think straight with the mech allowing us to get a victory. Also i find arguments of playing just to the mech rather than reads to be....defeating the purpose of 90% of the game. Id rather use it as a fallback if i really can't find scum in how people are positioning.
Like i think theres a few mech exploits scum can do with these "links" to either rule themselves out or obfuscates the clears.
Counterpoint: the first team mafia game I was in (whichever one I was teamed with amrun and chesskid) I ended up in the large theme which was a variation of powerful wizard
Powerful wizard being a concept invented by SpyreX who happened to be in the game. Despite not knowing the exact setup (obviously), he managed to completely mechanically break it for town.
At which point hopefully in 2023 mods have learned not to create mechanically broken setups
I quit playing for awhile bc setups were broken for town.
"I used to think you had this elegant-trolly, minimalist playstyle. Then I realized the playstyle is ~Lazy~
The true enlightenment was realizing that they are the same thing."
~fferyllt
"who the fuck fakeclaims Tracker like that
WHO THE FUCK DOES THAT"
~Alisae
In post 4149, Klick wrote:
Hypothetical scum power: scum have access to one-time uses of each role card, or certain role cards, or can remember roles that they have been given in the past
Remembering roles they've been given in the past is literally just human memory
In post 4137, Firebringer wrote:
i am iffy on the idea of breaking the game with mech considering me and my team just bamboozled the mech so hard in demon slayer that town couldn't think straight with the mech allowing us to get a victory. Also i find arguments of playing just to the mech rather than reads to be....defeating the purpose of 90% of the game. Id rather use it as a fallback if i really can't find scum in how people are positioning.
Like i think theres a few mech exploits scum can do with these "links" to either rule themselves out or obfuscates the clears.
Counterpoint: the first team mafia game I was in (whichever one I was teamed with amrun and chesskid) I ended up in the large theme which was a variation of powerful wizard
Powerful wizard being a concept invented by SpyreX who happened to be in the game. Despite not knowing the exact setup (obviously), he managed to completely mechanically break it for town.
At which point hopefully in 2023 mods have learned not to create mechanically broken setups
In post 4149, Klick wrote:
Hypothetical scum power: scum have access to one-time uses of each role card, or certain role cards, or can remember roles that they have been given in the past
Remembering roles they've been given in the past is literally just human memory
"You are the Joker of mafia players" - Oversoul
"last time I was scum with Firebringer
his first post in the scum PT was "yes I rolled scum!"
I decided to post "haha just don't post that in the main thread", but to get up to date on the main thread first.
His first post in the main thread was "yes I rolled scum!" -popsofctown
Also please don't use Demon Slayer as an example to dissuade mech.
That setup was at waaaaaaaaaay at the end of the spectrum.
We're not playing in a setup where we have 2 poisoners, 2 redirectors, a bus driver, and some sort of deathproof scum that can kill every town members.
"I used to think you had this elegant-trolly, minimalist playstyle. Then I realized the playstyle is ~Lazy~
The true enlightenment was realizing that they are the same thing."
~fferyllt
"who the fuck fakeclaims Tracker like that
WHO THE FUCK DOES THAT"
~Alisae
In post 4159, GuyInFreezer wrote:
Also please don't use Demon Slayer as an example to dissuade mech.
That setup was at waaaaaaaaaay at the end of the spectrum.
We're not playing in a setup where we have 2 poisoners, 2 redirectors, a bus driver, and some sort of deathproof scum that can kill every town members.
"You are the Joker of mafia players" - Oversoul
"last time I was scum with Firebringer
his first post in the scum PT was "yes I rolled scum!"
I decided to post "haha just don't post that in the main thread", but to get up to date on the main thread first.
His first post in the main thread was "yes I rolled scum!" -popsofctown
"I used to think you had this elegant-trolly, minimalist playstyle. Then I realized the playstyle is ~Lazy~
The true enlightenment was realizing that they are the same thing."
~fferyllt
"who the fuck fakeclaims Tracker like that
WHO THE FUCK DOES THAT"
~Alisae
"You are the Joker of mafia players" - Oversoul
"last time I was scum with Firebringer
his first post in the scum PT was "yes I rolled scum!"
I decided to post "haha just don't post that in the main thread", but to get up to date on the main thread first.
His first post in the main thread was "yes I rolled scum!" -popsofctown
In post 4162, Titus wrote:
So I fully intend to roleblock Frozen Angel tonight unless she claims doctor. I think solving FA does a lot for people.
i mean i agree solving FA helps a lot. Not seeing how blocking FA solves for her though.
It links her to me, scum wouldn't be able to kill FA without confirming me which is the last thing scum want. FA can't claim her action succeeded without 1 v 1 ing me.
Titus, there’s another way of accomplishing what you’re trying to accomplish that doesn’t give the scumteam too much space of working around claimed targets
In post 4166, Pink Ball wrote:
Titus, there’s another way of accomplishing what you’re trying to accomplish that doesn’t give the scumteam too much space of working around claimed targets
In post 4162, Titus wrote:
So I fully intend to roleblock Frozen Angel tonight unless she claims doctor. I think solving FA does a lot for people.
i mean i agree solving FA helps a lot. Not seeing how blocking FA solves for her though.
It links her to me, scum wouldn't be able to kill FA without confirming me which is the last thing scum want. FA can't claim her action succeeded without 1 v 1 ing me.
but if ur town and fa is scum. And u block her, she just has someone else perform kill.
How is FA cleared. This doesn't make sense how u both can't be scum either because u could roleblock ur teammmates to hypothetically.
Anyways can we stop with mech and just someone argue with me on why Shea is town and i can tell u why ur wrong
"You are the Joker of mafia players" - Oversoul
"last time I was scum with Firebringer
his first post in the scum PT was "yes I rolled scum!"
I decided to post "haha just don't post that in the main thread", but to get up to date on the main thread first.
His first post in the main thread was "yes I rolled scum!" -popsofctown
In post 4149, Klick wrote:
Hypothetical scum power: scum have access to one-time uses of each role card, or certain role cards, or can remember roles that they have been given in the past
Did ya get the other role PM and you can't post in the PT because you're not town? Because that's what Mala thinks. I thought maybe you were going to claim rolecop, but you've claimed not to have taken any action.
Kuribo is clearly town.
As for the setup spec going on ... consider that all of our power is in roles that are randomly assigned. The more of us that die, the more likely it is that our power roles end up on dead or scum slots instead of us. That's a built in decline in power. That plus lovers as NU should be considered when trying to figure this out. Also I like that people are finally realizing that there are paths to making people very nearly conftown.
Since scum are going to end up seeing the roles over time, and probably already saw some, there's no utility to playing coy and trying to "hide" info. Hard claims of what we all had D1 is the play, and as you all discuss more, you're starting to realize why.
And for the record ... this also constitutes a BOP argument against Titus as well. She clearly would have thought through all these angles, and the fact that she has been playing dumb and pretending that none of these things occurred to her is really just not believable.
I think you're outguessing the mod and its very likely to make us lose. There are trivial ways to make some of these roles not conf town. Just off the top of my head what if the scum has a role like "2-shot mimic" which can mimic an amnesiac role or something.
Just my first thought. You are looking at the setup and looking at all these possible conf town and not taking the next logical step, which is thinking that scum must have a way to counter that or the setup is broken. 5-6 conf town on day 2-3 is so far over the edge of not balanced that it doesn't matter if the ability to confirm goes down, town can win the game by just eliminating at random within those who are not conf town. There HAS to be a counter, and we don't know what it is. That's dangerous.
You seem to not be thinking about that danger at all.
It is trivially easy for mods to make this kind of confirm chain not broken and I am quite frankly shocked that Titus simultaneously holds the view that a) there are 3 scum in this setup and they're likely to not be very powerful and b) this setup can just be trivially broken by everyone just saying what their roles do and targeting each other.
In post 4162, Titus wrote:
So I fully intend to roleblock Frozen Angel tonight unless she claims doctor. I think solving FA does a lot for people.
i mean i agree solving FA helps a lot. Not seeing how blocking FA solves for her though.
It links her to me, scum wouldn't be able to kill FA without confirming me which is the last thing scum want. FA can't claim her action succeeded without 1 v 1 ing me.
but if ur town and fa is scum. And u block her, she just has someone else perform kill.
How is FA cleared. This doesn't make sense how u both can't be scum either because u could roleblock ur teammmates to hypothetically.
Anyways can we stop with mech and just someone argue with me on why Shea is town and i can tell u why ur wrong
In post 4164, Dunnstral wrote:
Mafia can have a roleblocker and also have received the Jailkeeper role for the night. I don't think either of those are particularly unlikely.
In post 4164, Dunnstral wrote:
Mafia can have a roleblocker and also have received the Jailkeeper role for the night. I don't think either of those are particularly unlikely.
Titus rolled JK
Which she could do if she were scum and mafia roled the JK.
In post 4149, Klick wrote:
Hypothetical scum power: scum have access to one-time uses of each role card, or certain role cards, or can remember roles that they have been given in the past
Did ya get the other role PM and you can't post in the PT because you're not town? Because that's what Mala thinks. I thought maybe you were going to claim rolecop, but you've claimed not to have taken any action.
Kuribo is clearly town.
As for the setup spec going on ... consider that all of our power is in roles that are randomly assigned. The more of us that die, the more likely it is that our power roles end up on dead or scum slots instead of us. That's a built in decline in power. That plus lovers as NU should be considered when trying to figure this out. Also I like that people are finally realizing that there are paths to making people very nearly conftown.
Since scum are going to end up seeing the roles over time, and probably already saw some, there's no utility to playing coy and trying to "hide" info. Hard claims of what we all had D1 is the play, and as you all discuss more, you're starting to realize why.
And for the record ... this also constitutes a BOP argument against Titus as well. She clearly would have thought through all these angles, and the fact that she has been playing dumb and pretending that none of these things occurred to her is really just not believable.
I think you're outguessing the mod and its very likely to make us lose. There are trivial ways to make some of these roles not conf town. Just off the top of my head what if the scum has a role like "2-shot mimic" which can mimic an amnesiac role or something.
Just my first thought. You are looking at the setup and looking at all these possible conf town and not taking the next logical step, which is thinking that scum must have a way to counter that or the setup is broken. 5-6 conf town on day 2-3 is so far over the edge of not balanced that it doesn't matter if the ability to confirm goes down, town can win the game by just eliminating at random within those who are not conf town. There HAS to be a counter, and we don't know what it is. That's dangerous.
You seem to not be thinking about that danger at all.
It is trivially easy for mods to make this kind of confirm chain not broken and I am quite frankly shocked that Titus simultaneously holds the view that a) there are 3 scum in this setup and they're likely to not be very powerful and b) this setup can just be trivially broken by everyone just saying what their roles do and targeting each other.
These aren't compatible world views.
Great. We disagree. Reality is they may have more scum than I think but our roles are too weak and unpredictable to be messed with.
