large normal 243: lindOVER

[Enchant]

Yawn.

So uh well. I have no real ideas who to push, even malcolm is meh option for me now.

I am too ignorant is it?

[Hu Tao]

Just vote anyone at this point

VOTE: bub

[schadd_]

Spoiler:

pelle swedlund,

tornado

vote count 3.7 !

Bub Bidderskins (7):

furtiveglance, Save The Dragons, curiouskarmadog, Enchant, Kowahbunga, Venmar, Hu Tao

Venmar (2):

Skygazer, ofrhz

Skygazer (1):

NJAC

curiouskarmadog (1):

Bub Bidderskins

MalcolmTucker (1):

sheepsaysmeep

not voting (2):

MalcolmTucker, GuyInFreezer

with 14 alive, it takes 8 to place someone under noncitizen's arrest. day 3 ends in (expired on 2023-05-01 23:16:17)

moderateur notes

• save the dragons is vla until the 1st

[Kowahbunga]

Has bub claimed something? I'm not in the mood to look for it.

[Venmar]

He claimed Vt I think

[sheepsaysmeep]

mehhhhhhhh

[sheepsaysmeep]

I would be fine hammering yeah

[sheepsaysmeep]

even if it's town I guess it's protown for std to be like, not leashed by not having the flip wtv

[furtiveglance]

Go on then, hammer it

[Enchant]

UNVOTE:

[Venmar]

A plot twist

[NJAC]

If Bub is town, I think sheep is scum, given the approach to the hammer. Enchant is town in that scenario.

[curiouskarmadog]

doing a quick read here, I will go back an answer the previous question when I have more time (will require some digging for quotes) I can quickly comment on this though

can you work me through why you think Bub is town? you reposted a joke about him being okay with a Bub wagon? Why? A lot of people were expressing long day fatigue.

The way he developed his reads felt natural (see the quotes in 4039), and I think he genuinely believes you're scum.

It's as if he's had this paranoia on you since early day 1 that he hasn't been able to shake off.

Let me put it this way, do you think he would be loltunneling you today as Scum when he is about to get voted out? Your wagon hasn't and will not gain any traction. He's not even voting his biggest counterwagon to survive
I think maybe Bub really just thinks you're scum

go back when he first started the vote. He and Venmar both were testing the waters, to (I feel) gauge interest in a possible wagon. When I called it out, he immediately voted me. He came into this day with an obvious

plan

agenda. He has backed himself into a corner. What other wagon COULD he join at this point?

[curiouskarmadog]

OFR,

Question. Do you feel like D3 I am or am not scum hunting? Why do you feel Bub has been CONSTANTLY saying that? I know you have commented on his page 5 case has substantive. What are your thoughts on his case today?

[curiouskarmadog]

and the reason I keep mentioning the "page 5 case" is because...well...it was page five. It just seems odd to be determining one's alignment (partly) on that. I understand you are/were reading the thread, but we are on D3 and 160+ pages.

@all, I think this point a Bub flip will be quite telling. Why am I wrong?

[curiouskarmadog]

UNVOTE:

Why?

[curiouskarmadog]

If Bub is town, I think sheep is scum, given the approach to the hammer. Enchant is town in that scenario.

really? if BUB was town, and it pretty much if a for gone conclusion he will be the lynch today, would EnchantScum try to garner some town cred?

arent you curious WHY he unvoted? Why just assume that is a town move? If you are curious, why didnt you ask a follow up question?

[Enchant]

wdm i just want to steal hammer

[ofrhz]

A plot twist

Do you have anything to say about my vote on you?

[ofrhz]

doing a quick read here, I will go back an answer the previous question when I have more time (will require some digging for quotes) I can quickly comment on this though

can you work me through why you think Bub is town? you reposted a joke about him being okay with a Bub wagon? Why? A lot of people were expressing long day fatigue.

The way he developed his reads felt natural (see the quotes in 4039), and I think he genuinely believes you're scum.

It's as if he's had this paranoia on you since early day 1 that he hasn't been able to shake off.

Let me put it this way, do you think he would be loltunneling you today as Scum when he is about to get voted out? Your wagon hasn't and will not gain any traction. He's not even voting his biggest counterwagon to survive
I think maybe Bub really just thinks you're scum

go back when he first started the vote. He and Venmar both were testing the waters, to (I feel) gauge interest in a possible wagon. When I called it out, he immediately voted me. He came into this day with an obvious

plan

agenda. He has backed himself into a corner. What other wagon COULD he join at this point?

I don't understand the premise behind this question, why wouldn't Bub just magically whip up a scumread if Bub were scum here? Why did he need to tunnel so hard on you in the first place? Scum tend to have a wider pool of suspects than Town to give them more room to maneuver if needed, not smaller!

OFR,

Question. Do you feel like D3 I am or am not scum hunting? Why do you feel Bub has been CONSTANTLY saying that? I know you have commented on his page 5 case has substantive. What are your thoughts on his case today?

I think you have been hunting, but I'm also strongly townreading you for your emotional response to certain things and for how Kitty played around you. so I'm reading the game very differently from Bub. Reading the game differently doesn't make someone scum, however.

Has Bub been saying you haven't been scumhunting? Bub initially scumread you for your positioning around the Andante wagon, and then later for reflexively sussing him back. So a lot of this is reading TvT to me: CKD thinks Bub was testing the waters early today, Bub doesn't think CKD is scumhunting because CKD's just immediately sussed him back, CKD doesn't think Bub is scumhunting because Bub is tunneled... like you've had this 1v1 simmering below the surface since day 1.

I'll be honest - there are aspects to both of your cases that aren't convincing to me: you accusing Bub for "testing the waters", and Bub's argument that you're just OMGUS'ing to name two

Neither of you are making compelling cases on the other, yet I think both of you believe in your reads. Does that make sense? That's why I'm skeptical of Venmar saying it's SvS because they don't agree with either of you.... that just looks like opportunistically taking advantage of two people tunneled on each other.

[Skygazer]

im TRing ofhrz more than i was gimli

[curiouskarmadog]

Has Bub been saying you haven't been scumhunting? Bub initially scumread you for your positioning around the Andante wagon, and then later for reflexively sussing him back. So a lot of this is reading TvT to me: CKD thinks Bub was testing the waters early today, Bub doesn't think CKD is scumhunting because CKD's just immediately sussed him back, CKD doesn't think Bub is scumhunting because Bub is tunneled... like you've had this 1v1 simmering below the surface since day 1.

I'll be honest - there are aspects to both of your cases that aren't convincing to me: you accusing Bub for "testing the waters", and Bub's argument that you're just OMGUS'ing to name two

Unfortunately I'm going to be V/LA through Monday the 1st. I will still try to jump on and keep in the game (as long as I'm alive).

I'm just frustrated by everyone's bizarre unwilliningness to wagon Kitty after a string of just blatantly scummy behavior. I dunno, maybe I'm so deep in the tunnel here with confirmation bias or the game has passed me by, but just seems like Kitty is 2x or 3x more likely to be scum than basically every other reasonable suspect combined.

The fake scumhunting,

weirdness on the Andante wagon, likely bus location on the kitty wagon, unbelievably scummy soft PR claim after only a moderate amount of pressure. Basically every time they've inserted themselves into the game it's been for super scummy reasons. Maybe they have scumbuds defending them, but that even seems weird when you consider just how blatantly scummy their behavior is. CKD's iso is indefensible from a town perspective. Just don't get it.

I don't think pushing the person pushing you is intrinsically scummy if you think they're scum,

but it seems like CKD only does "scumhunting" when it has the benefit of getting someone off their back. That's what being "defensive" in a scummy way looks like -- there's no legitimate scumhunting, only defense.

and there was earlier references to it too. its just not true...furthermore, it cant really be chalked up to opinion. "CKD is only scum hunting to get someone off thier back"....you cant read the game and actually believe that. It is a fluff statement that factually is not true.

I mean fuck, he attacked me early D1 for attacking Andante...Andante wasnt attacking me at the time. I called out something I believed was scummy behavior. Its just utter bullshit.

[schadd_]

prodding bub bidderskins

[Venmar]

A plot twist

Do you have anything to say about my vote on you?

Not really, seems to boil down to you not liking my #3808 which like OK but not liking someone's posts and disagreeing with them doesn't mean I am scumreading them just because I disagree with their thought process, that's pretty reductive and you putting words in my mouth in a way. It's partly true because of how I worded my post, but each bolded part of your post in #4040 has me disagreeing because I think the person is reading the game in a way I'd find scummy (ex. I disagree with CKD on his "being defensive" take but also say its CKD coming across as conjuring up a reason to fire back at Bub. I disagree with Malcom's takes but think its coming from him reading Bub's posts in a way that I don't reflects accurately on the game and by making statements I dont think are true like Bub being a "strong town voice".)

As for Bub I just fundamentally disagree with you, I always found the timing of Bub's posts to be very opportunistic and lined up with the momentum of the day. If you see it differently then that's fine, but I can't say I find you replacing in just to seemingly chainsaw defend Bub particularly townie to me

[Kowahbunga]

Can we get this done with already?