Night Watch Open 95 - Game Over before 703

[orangepenguin]

I have never won a game before- every other time I was in lylo, I'd lose. I just got lucky.

Then why, pray tell, are you good for the town, even if you AREN'T scum?
Are you really saying.. "look, I am not any good at this game.. that is why I have been holding back"?

I suck too, but I don't use the fact that I suck as a get out of jail free card. I still make every attempt to play to the best of my ability with what I know. If I win, yay. If I lose, serves me right. Every game is a lesson in and of itself.

The only thing I personally think I suck at is making cases and presenting them to the town. Which is kind of a big deal in Mafia. Otherwise, I think I am a pretty meh player. But since I can't make a case out of a paper bag, I don't tend to make many cases, but when I do, they aren't anything mindblowing. I try my best, like you do. I attempt to stay active in the game - I have never been replaced in a game (i've been in about 20 now..). I try my best, I really do. Some games I play better than others though, and those games tend to be the ones I enjoy reading and playing in. Can't really say that thus far for this one.

[afatchic]

Then why, pray tell, are you good for the town, even if you AREN'T scum?

Do you really need someone to answer this question for you?

Overall I don't see how such aggressive play can help the town, especially when it's given with so few reasons and is as bandwagonny as his.

Are you suggesting that he will hurt the town, even if he is townie? we have ways to prove allignment, so a lynch because they are harmful to the down is a bunch or crap.
anyways.... congrats, you both just hit scum tell number 1. so with that comes...

UNVOTE VOTE CAMN

, why would you EVER want to lynch a townie, regardless of how distracting they may be?

FOS ORTOLAN

[camn]

Do you really need someone to answer this question for you?
......VOTE CAMN, why would you EVER want to lynch a townie, regardless of how distracting they may be?

@fatchic . . I don't really understand what you are asking.
I

don't

think he is town. That is why I voted him. I think he mounted a pretty poor defense, and is probably scum. I don't think he is distracting, either. In fact, he has kind of been the opposite. Like, avoiding attention.

And no, i don't need someone to answer that. It was mostly rhetorical. In an explaining-my-vote kind of way.

Which is what you should do. Explain your vote, that is. You made so little sense on that last post, I don't even know what to write....
What, PRAY TELL, is scum-tell #1.. and how did both Ort and I "hit" it? We are doing almost opposite things.


And PS.... there certainly are reasons to lynch townies.... but I don't think they apply here. They apply during the time period of

EVER

... but not here Going in to that kind of meta-discussion would be quite

distracting

.... so I think I won't.

[afatchic]

Then why, pray tell, are you good for the town,

even if you AREN'T scum?

Scumtell number 1 is saying they are a good lynch, despite alignment. and you saying even if you aren't scum, implies that you are not sure about his alignment, but want to lynch him regardless.

And ortolan also hit the scumtell by saying he doesn't see how his aggresive play will help the town, even if he is town, then following the statement by a vote.

[StrangerCoug]

I don't know whose head I want to bite off: afatchic's for false dilemma, or camn's for saying there's a reason to lynch townies. I agree that discussing the latter is distracting, however.

[afatchic]

How did i hit a false dilemma?
and camn there is not a reason to ever lynch a townie.

[camn]

..... implies that you are not sure about his alignment, but want to lynch him regardless.

I'm not sure of anyone's alignment.
Except mine.
And KMD's.
And Bionic's, since I hid behind him last night and didn't die.

Are you, fatchic,

SURE

about MY alignment?

[afatchic]

Normally when you want a lynch, you are nearly positive they are scum. Im not voting you to get you lynched, im voting you to pressure and judge reactions.

[ortolan]

Then why, pray tell, are you good for the town, even if you AREN'T scum?

Do you really need someone to answer this question for you?

Overall I don't see how such aggressive play can help the town, especially when it's given with so few reasons and is as bandwagonny as his.

Are you suggesting that he will hurt the town, even if he is townie? we have ways to prove allignment, so a lynch because they are harmful to the down is a bunch or crap.
anyways.... congrats, you both just hit scum tell number 1. so with that comes...

UNVOTE VOTE CAMN

, why would you EVER want to lynch a townie, regardless of how distracting they may be?

FOS ORTOLAN

When did I say I am voting for him for his style of play hurting the town, "even if he is townie"? I am saying "I don't see how this style of play could help the town, therefore I think he is scum."

FoS: afatchic

for taking an incredibly dodgy interpretation of my post and positing it as a scumtell. I also immensely dislike you lazily lumping me and camn together as though we are only worthy of a singular reply.

[camn]

Normally when you want a lynch, you are nearly positive they are scum.

.....

I never am "nearly positive"!!! I am SO happy if scum confess during twilight.. cuz then I don't have to bite my nails waiting for the mod-reveal!

It must be a nice planet, where you live.....

[afatchic]

Yes ortolan you figured it out, im just lazy. not because the same thing applied to both you and camn, that would be just a dumb idea to think that[sarcasm]

but the way it sounded is that well he could be scum because he did this, but even if he isn't he will still hurt the town. which is scummy.

[orangepenguin]

OK, here's my two sense after looking at this OP guy:

I think they're saving you for later, IMO. Getting the idea that you're scummy out there, so they can set up a lynch on you later, assuming you're town and they are scum. If they aren't scum, then I don't think they're doing that, but just my interpretation.

It's hard for me to picture town theorizing about scum motives like this. What I'm getting from this post is that orangepenguin knows ortolan is town and therefore is trying to distance from a mislynch.

I must've skipped over this somehow, but now noticed it in ort's post.

I was theorizing about scum motives, and in order for it to be an actual scum motive, for what I was talking about, you'd have to assume ort was a townie in that scenario. I don't think he is scum though, just based on prior games with him, but I have in no way cleared him out and labeled him "town". If you read what I was talking about, I was speculating about one thing, so for Point A to be true in that scenario, then Point B does.

unvote

Since my vote is causing so much dilemma, I just won't vote. That is, until I make an actual case against someone. That way, I am being good by conforming to other peoples standard of good play and I have stuff to back up my reasoning. In the meantime, pick select portions of what I say to go and twist it around.

[Haschel Cedricson]

Feeling ill, so I'm not posting today. Tomorrow is Thanksgiving. Look for me Friday. Xtoxm, answer my question at the top of the previous page.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

My only real defense against ort's accusations would be pretty WIFOM, and I'm not going to engage in that.

My initial impression of this game has not changed. Haschel Cedricson and orangepenguin are my top suspects. Haschel has redeemed himself somewhat in my eyes, and orangepenguin has not.

However, I am not going to allow myself to get completely tunneled into these players, as many of my previous posts, which you characterize as hopping, exemplify. I am confident that one or the other of these players is scum, just as I am confident that we will lynch correctly when the time comes.

My vote on orangepenguin remains, and my tight-but-aggressive play remains, because I like to win games.

[StrangerCoug]

Somebody remind me to hurt orangepenguin. Come on, unvoting out of appeasement!?

[orangepenguin]

unvote

Since my vote is causing so much dilemma,

I just won't vote

. That is,

until I make an actual case against someone.

That way, I am being good by conforming to other peoples standard of good play and I have stuff to back up my reasoning. In the meantime, pick select portions of what I say to go and twist it around.

So no to your question.

[icemanE]

fat is either misinterpreting what camn said or actively trying to put spin on it. Reading camn's post in question, I did not get the impression that camn was proposing a lynch regardless of alignment.

I agree that it's impossible to say there's NEVER a reason to lynch a townie - wacky situations and problems arise in mafia all the time, so it's naive to say a situation like that doesn't and will never exist. In this particular instance, no, it's clearly not OK.

Now that you mention it, bio, the fact that Ice isn't bandwagon-hopping like a madman is almost suspicious. In the few games I've played with him, he's been town, and he's hopped around a lot in the early going.

True. I do like bandwagons. But only if I think they're going to be even slightly productive or accurate. You'll see I agree with bandwagons when I join them, if you look at my play, and don't join when I don't like them. You make it seem as if I jump on every bandwagon that forms, and that's not accurate.

Sadly, much like life, the universe, and everything, something has to come out of nothing at some point.

Apparently we're playing with God himself.

And: "Nothing can come of nothing."

King Lear

The significance: TCS is saying that a wagon based on nothing is appropriate... which it's not. Maybe on page 3. Not on page 13. Duh.

I also don't understand TCS's point about OP's win in PD Mafia (which I was in - in fact, I was one of the two scum he killed to win the game). First of all, the game mechanics in PD mafia were insanely different than this game's. Secondly, I was sent to jail because the town thought myself and my scumpartner were town, and OP used his power which killed two people the townies thought were town. Finally, you seem to be arguing that OP is a good player - and what's your point? He says he's bad, you say he's good... where were you trying to go with that?

That active lurking point on OP is also bull.

Gonna look through and see if I want to vote TCS.

[Crazy]

I'm back. Actually, I got back last night. I'll post tomorrow.

I'm certainly glad the deadline was changed from November 28th to December 5th.

[Jex]

Vote Count

2 - orangepenguin (The Central Scrutinizer, StrangerCoug)
2 - The Central Scrutinizer (Haschel Cedricson, ortolan)
2 - camn (Crazy, afatchic)
1 - bionicchop2 (icemanE)
1 - Crazy (Xtoxm)
1 - icemanE (bionicchop2)

Not Voting

camn, orangepenguin

It takes 6 votes to lynch

Deadline is Dec 5th

[camn]

Wow, Iceman. It is noce to see another relatively sane person here!

Guys, I'm feeling kind of stuck here.
I'm not really sure I see OP as scum, I don't like TCS as scum, I obviously don't like MYSELF as scum.....
And the deadline is creeping up.

TCS... can you answer Ice's questions in 341? I am interested in your view.

[StrangerCoug]

Guys, I'm feeling kind of stuck here.
I'm not really sure I see OP as scum, I don't like TCS as scum, I obviously don't like MYSELF as scum.....

Yep. I think we're as good as at an impasse, but if it helps, I'll give opinions on you three.

I like OP-scum because of his active lurking problem. I don't like using meta to determine alignment, but he's done that before in a game where I was scum.

The Central Scrutinizer as scum is mostly for his actions early in the day. His later actions don't give me scum vibes.

The only thing you've done to set me off is say there's a time for lynching townies, but that can be taken to Mafia Discussion.

[bionicchop2]

I should be back into the swing of things by tomorrow. I will give this game heavy attention as we approach deadline this week.

[orangepenguin]

Guys, I'm feeling kind of stuck here.
I'm not really sure I see OP as scum, I don't like TCS as scum, I obviously don't like MYSELF as scum.....
And the deadline is creeping up.

Out of the three people with two votes (you, me, TCS), I don't really like it either. If I had to lynch one of the three, it would be TCS.. obviously. I know that I am not scum, and I am not sold at all that you are scum. TCS would be the best choice out of the three of us, but I am not quite as convinced as I was before, and maybe OMGUS took over before. But I still think his case is crap. So if it come down to deadline, I will be voting TCS, but there are people with ZERO votes on them right now that I'd rather see lynched because I think they are scummier than the three of us.

[bionicchop2]

...there are people with ZERO votes on them right now that I'd rather see lynched because I think they are scummier than the three of us.

Why haven't you expressed any of this and made any attempt to vote for them?

[ortolan]

Yes, OP, I'd like to hear who you think we should be voting for who doesn't have any votes currently.