Mini Normal 2298 - Game Over!

[Andante]

im not sure i love how quickly you two seem to have arrived on the same page!

That was my exact same reaction... like, it takes Peregrine forcing a scum team of me + merlyn to work, which reading that case, I just go "lol that's so bad" and elpis is all "yes!!! andante + merlyn!!"

[Andante]

Us arriving at the same page isn't something that should be odd.

Right, when your entire ISO seems to just be you agreeing with everyone, "not odd at all"

[Andante]

I mean, I tried telling you ethel seemed scummy yesterday, then that turned into "ANDANTE LIES!!" or whatever lol

Another example of the discrediting!

Like, I don't even think I want to bother responding to any of this case, you're 100% missing the context I had behind my post, it sure is easy to walk in here and go "lol yall were so bad!!" when literally all you have to do here is survive 1 lim

[Andante]

Not gonna lie, I hate that "case" so much I legit just wanna vote Peregrine. however, I shall wait for merlyn to return, cause also, you just conveniently pick the 2 of us who aren't around to defend ourselves? like no thanks. Also, what you failed to account for in your "case" was
1- my playstyle
2- gimli and I are friends, so obviously I'll just write him off as town, deal with others, then return

my current solve is peregrine + elpis, but I also think it's cause I hate the "case" and I hate the "yeah! good case!!" crap. wooo. good morning! time for coffee lol

[Elpis]

when fber is SUPER DUPER TOWNIE thats when he is town got it

you think he’s SUPER TOWN right now?
SUPER TOWN cause of the meme post?

I also am making this post as a personal bookmark in case I do not get to everything I want but! I have thoughts!!

Maybe I should use notes somewhere at some point but I am going to build off of this bookmark with a scrap of a thought! There is a consistent shift in Andante's reads regarding Gimli, which begins with their interactions feeling as if there's not a lot of solving from Andante's end when Gimli had a townread on her. But then she does shift to suspicion at said townread! And then to "I don't know but I wanna flip these other people before I dig in!" To... wanting to sheep him! (I have posts for these that I am not adding in to not clog the thread, but I can pull these if needed!) To a bit scummy again, and in the endgame (where I think it is most necessary to hedge your bets against a partner!) a scumread that does wavers at times but seems to be far more... rational, I suppose! Than the Ethel read was at the beginning!

Which I do not know what that says about Andante, the difference between a tunnel and a more fleshed out reasoning! I do know it is easier to scumread a partner as you know exactly what they're doing wrong, but I do not want to discredit the chance Andante could be right without additional information!

I really don't understand why the Ethel tunneling was a thing...

you don't understand? you were literally someone who was here in the moment yet you never wanted to ask me for clarification on that wagon? yeah I was convinced ethel was scum

I'm pretty sure I DID ask and I still am not entirely sure about it.

[Peregrine]

Hello!
I think! That is fair to say that it is not as organic of a case as it could be, but it stems from my townreads on other people. I have not had the chance to solve this game in a natural way, having joined in endgame! But I have reasons that I have focused where I have so far!

And that being said, I think that Andante's reaction continues the pattern of dismissing people who suspect her in an illogical way! And while town players will sometimes be illogical, it feels very deliberate here!

As in, I have offered what I believe to be a moderate amount of reasoning for what I believe, but Andante is boiling it down to it being a scumread for her gameplay. Which is not true! I dislike the people she has chose to push, and the ways that she has interacted with flipped town players as well as the mafia one, and the other player I suspect is mafia! It has nothing to do with how she has played the game, and her aggression feels as if she is trying to avoid responding to push through my elimination!

[Peregrine]

I also find the defense that I am "casing the people who are not here" to be a scummy one as well! Your absence(s) in the game do not change what you have previously posted, and while I have been working through those posts I have not denied you a chance to respond (and in fact encouraged one!!) and I have not attempted to rush through an elimination without you being able to defend yourself! It feels like another cheap argument that doesn't really make sense to me!

[Peregrine]

Finally on this point, while it is a possible route I could take if I was mafia, why would I? This is a point that harkens to WIFOM, but: Andante, you've already signaled you liked my posting on entrance. If I am mafia it is a necessity I alienate someone by pushing them for elimination, but what benefit do you think there is in my alienating a person who has better odds of voting with me than against me? I suppose you do not have any knowledge of my play, but I will state for the benefit of this that I prefer honey to vinegar!

(And I know that this may not be much of a point at all given the circumstance, but it is what it is!)

[Peregrine]

That being said, despite my current feelings if you are town

please

engage with me in a different way - I do not know how to work with a response this reactive! You have jumped immediately to disparaging my thoughts with responses I cannot work with, either, as they are not grounded from my perspective in actual content! I need to better understand your thoughts and actions than what you are doing now.

[Merlyn]

I find it! Rather comforting to type like this, but if it is annoying I will try to stop!

Nope, now that I know you're not yelling it doesn't bother me.

The thing is, though, this is how Andante plays regardless of alignment (you don't have to take my word for it, read/skim some of her other games) . Any scumcase you make on her gamestyle isn't going to be a compelling one to me.

the fact that I think that his play this game would venture into absurdity if he was a mafia for the amount of mafia-siding he would have had to do with his pushes

This is a good point, and I think something similar- I noticed it when I started making notes of who was on what wagon.

I currently feel as if Elpis has not pushed much, if any, of an agenda this game and interfaced with Norwee in a way that made me feel as if they would not choose to kill him

Can you give me a concrete example of this? I'm asking because I have a very different take on that.

Just making sure-- the takeaway here is that norwe was killed because scum was under the impression that they would not be able to get them voted out?

That's not my takeaway. I've brought this before, but Cephrir was the one who should have been killed last night- he was much for widely townread than Norwee. Norwee should have been a good choice for scum to leave on the board. So, why did Cephrir live? (Obviously he could have lived bc he's scum, but that's not my belief) I think it's because someone he town reads is scum, so they thought he'd be a better choice to take to endgame. That is possibly Andante, but I've already said why I think it's Elpis. (oh, side note: I know Andante said she wasn't gonna vote Norwee no matter what, but if that's why he lived that's a bold choice- Andante is very changeable).

I just went and re-read the whole Ethel thing again- how is this not a kerfluffle over nothing? Andante didn't like that Ethel was voting her when Ethel read her as null. For some reason several people really focused on one the other part of the sentence ('she said she found you neither scummy NOR TOWN'!) and that was never really the point, Andante was questioning why place a vote on a null read. Also, Elpis, if you didn't understand it, I couldn't find where you asked Andante a question (but I fully admit I might have missed it) about it- I did see you post twice about how it was leaning town with you

As for the rest of what's going on...last time I played with Andante they came in swinging hard and being heavily defensive like they are now, and that time they were not just a town, but a power role. This reminds me a lot of that currently, so I am inclined to think that Andante is town, at least for the moment.

I think bbp is more likely scum than the other wagons

loved andante's entrances posts, don't really like her ethel push but like, I got it. you rep in you're highly suspected you get jumpy, I totally buy that was a real genuine and towny response from andante.

I don't think anything nsg did was scum indicative

I kinda hate firebringer and cephrir's treatment of the slot. of course I'm strong townreading firebringer but more on the fence with ceph.

I agree with most of this aside from the last part, though while what NSG has done hasn't been scummy, what she HASN'T done is. She's not really contributing to anything at all.

[Merlyn]

1262 is kind of an interesting post in light of our current knowledge that gimli/elpis/marquis was absolutely not 3 townies and in fact was imo probably two scum

1328
-this gimli townread seems... really really flimsy, no?
-remarkably certain about NM, but i guess they haven't seen him before
-this marquis townread (1330) also seems really flimsy. if you forgot your scumbuddy on purpose, props

atp ive concluded that andante is town and i'm just trying to find the team in the remaining places it can be

LOL what a post- oh, Gimli. I hope we get to talk about our slot together someday.

As far as I can tell Elpis got some shit for this post, but the general consensus was that it was okay bc they were new. It would be AMAZING if that was some sort of scumslip (forgetting Marquis), but...yeah. Even I don't think it is.

[Elpis]

I find it! Rather comforting to type like this, but if it is annoying I will try to stop!

Nope, now that I know you're not yelling it doesn't bother me.

The thing is, though, this is how Andante plays regardless of alignment (you don't have to take my word for it, read/skim some of her other games) . Any scumcase you make on her gamestyle isn't going to be a compelling one to me.

the fact that I think that his play this game would venture into absurdity if he was a mafia for the amount of mafia-siding he would have had to do with his pushes

This is a good point, and I think something similar- I noticed it when I started making notes of who was on what wagon.

I currently feel as if Elpis has not pushed much, if any, of an agenda this game and interfaced with Norwee in a way that made me feel as if they would not choose to kill him

Can you give me a concrete example of this? I'm asking because I have a very different take on that.

Just making sure-- the takeaway here is that norwe was killed because scum was under the impression that they would not be able to get them voted out?

That's not my takeaway. I've brought this before, but Cephrir was the one who should have been killed last night- he was much for widely townread than Norwee. Norwee should have been a good choice for scum to leave on the board. So, why did Cephrir live? (Obviously he could have lived bc he's scum, but that's not my belief) I think it's because someone he town reads is scum, so they thought he'd be a better choice to take to endgame. That is possibly Andante, but I've already said why I think it's Elpis. (oh, side note: I know Andante said she wasn't gonna vote Norwee no matter what, but if that's why he lived that's a bold choice- Andante is very changeable).

I just went and re-read the whole Ethel thing again- how is this not a kerfluffle over nothing? Andante didn't like that Ethel was voting her when Ethel read her as null. For some reason several people really focused on one the other part of the sentence ('she said she found you neither scummy NOR TOWN'!) and that was never really the point, Andante was questioning why place a vote on a null read. Also, Elpis, if you didn't understand it, I couldn't find where you asked Andante a question (but I fully admit I might have missed it) about it- I did see you post twice about how it was leaning town with you

As for the rest of what's going on...last time I played with Andante they came in swinging hard and being heavily defensive like they are now, and that time they were not just a town, but a power role. This reminds me a lot of that currently, so I am inclined to think that Andante is town, at least for the moment.

I think bbp is more likely scum than the other wagons

loved andante's entrances posts, don't really like her ethel push but like, I got it. you rep in you're highly suspected you get jumpy, I totally buy that was a real genuine and towny response from andante.

I don't think anything nsg did was scum indicative

I kinda hate firebringer and cephrir's treatment of the slot. of course I'm strong townreading firebringer but more on the fence with ceph.

I agree with most of this aside from the last part, though while what NSG has done hasn't been scummy, what she HASN'T done is. She's not really contributing to anything at all.

Maybe I didn't directly ask why, but I did fight her on it, and disagree immensely the entire time. Her accusing Ethel is also NOT why I had her lean town, I had her leaning town because even if I feel like she's acting bizarrely sometimes, that's just because I don't understand how she views and reads people. She was town last game and I spent that game not understanding why she thought everyone else was scum. I've sort of just come to the impression that if Andante is passionately scumreading someone, and that person seems to be town, it's actually incredibly likely that person is town.

[Andante]

I think that Andante's reaction continues the pattern of dismissing people who suspect her in an illogical way!

how about instead of tunneling me for how I play you put half as much effort into tunneling my partner here, cause I'm scum yes? you sure seem to be ignoring that partner of mine, main focus is tunneling me. which let me say, is real original

[Andante]

That being said, despite my current feelings if you are town

please

engage with me in a different way - I do not know how to work with a response this reactive! You have jumped immediately to disparaging my thoughts with responses I cannot work with, either, as they are not grounded from my perspective in actual content! I need to better understand your thoughts and actions than what you are doing now.

What am I supposed to engage with? you say this as if you've asked me questions you want answers to. you haven't. you've just gone "there's no way andante is town" you are only pushing me for garbage reasons, I'm fairly certain you don't want my thoughts on every comment you have to say about me here.

Not gonna lie, the lack of you pushing merlyn is really feeling like scum team is you + merlyn here

[Andante]

I find it! Rather comforting to type like this, but if it is annoying I will try to stop!

Nope, now that I know you're not yelling it doesn't bother me.

The thing is, though, this is how Andante plays regardless of alignment (you don't have to take my word for it, read/skim some of her other games) . Any scumcase you make on her gamestyle isn't going to be a compelling one to me.

the fact that I think that his play this game would venture into absurdity if he was a mafia for the amount of mafia-siding he would have had to do with his pushes

This is a good point, and I think something similar- I noticed it when I started making notes of who was on what wagon.

I currently feel as if Elpis has not pushed much, if any, of an agenda this game and interfaced with Norwee in a way that made me feel as if they would not choose to kill him

Can you give me a concrete example of this? I'm asking because I have a very different take on that.

to me this feels like partners interacting, I'm honestly so ready to full send it on Marquis/Marquis 2.0 and Merlyn as the solve

[Cephrir]

im town and im very unlikely to vote andante today so if she's in your solve, find another way or make a different argument

[Peregrine]

This!! Is a very frustrating situation. My case against Andante is being boiled down to "gameplay" reasons when it isn't the case!!

[Peregrine]

I don't really have a lot of motivation for this, sorry!!

This is going to be seen as a scumclaim, or that I have given up, but if the person I think is town does not agree with me on my scumread, I guess I default to voting the other one (Merlyn). Which will be seen as bussing. This is not very fun!! I am going to vote Merlyn sometime within the next day unless there is a case built on Elpis, but as it is I don't think that I can get there by myself after reading their iso!

[Peregrine]

And, to be honest, I thought that I did not have to spell out what I wanted from you Andante!! I do not play in a way that asks as many questions as it implies them, but I wanted to understand your thought process throughout this game, especially early!! As I am not the only person who felt as if you were tunneling falsely!! (Firebringer thought this as well, which I thought was interesting as I had the sense you were trying to pocket him and he was not reciprocating!!) So, hopefully this is clear: I want you to speak to your reasoning days one and two, or why you did what you did!

(And to be honest again, I don't think that you are going to give this the time of day/do much more than brush it off and call it a bad case and say you want to vote me which, fine, you are allowed to do that but if you are town I am once again all but begging you to engage in a way where I can actually!! Find you as town!!!!)

[Peregrine]

Otherwise I am just going to vote tomorrow but if anyone wants!! To engage with me please do!! I don't think we're wringing much more out of this, or I am unwilling to currently for the returns I feel I'll get!! Good night!!!!!

[Merlyn]

I don't really have a lot of motivation for this, sorry!!

This is going to be seen as a scumclaim, or that I have given up, but if the person I think is town does not agree with me on my scumread, I guess I default to voting the other one (Merlyn). Which will be seen as bussing. This is not very fun!! I am going to vote Merlyn sometime within the next day unless there is a case built on Elpis, but as it is I don't think that I can get there by myself after reading their iso!

I don't even know what to say to bs like this. I did build a case on Elpis, which you've ignored. If you were always going to default to sheeping Cephrir I don't know why you bothered to form your own opinions.

[Cephrir]

the ATE is mighty ;_;

[Merlyn]

Huh, how am I ATE?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

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[Cat Scratch Fever]

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