Amnesiac Mafia: The Movie! That's a Wrap!

[Save The Dragons]

everyone was like "here's 2 or 3 or an order" and you want to roast my butt?

[kuribo]

i picked 5 names out of 4 probable scum in a 9 player game??????

Okay fine

Case FA and Shea as partners for me then.

Show me how you arrive there.

[kuribo]

Doesn't have to be right this minute, take your time

But I wanna see how you come to that scum team

Leave PB/Shea out of it

Show your work for FA in that scumteam with them

[Save The Dragons]

have they even meaningfully interacted with each other

give me a minute

[kuribo]

FA, I haven't forgotten your offer to talk things with you either, just got other priorities but you'll be hearing from me too

[Save The Dragons]

while i'm digging

Part of the distinction to me is that caught scum emotion DOES frequently feel fake to me. In the sense that they know they are bad so everything is filtered through that lens. Even if a scum player is legitimately frustrated by being "caught for the wrong reasons" as people say there is always that in the background.

For what its worth I tend to think caught for the wrong reasons is kind of a bullshit thing in general.

In my experience town gets just as mad if not more mad when they are being scum read for reasons they think are illegitimate than scum does and in fact it happens more often because town is way more prone to think people scum reading them is illegitimate because they know they're town.

what happened to this view

[Thestatusquo]

That view still exists. I don't know what you want me to say, scum do scummy things and get caught for them and get mad about it all the time too. Clearly given the balance of probabilities I think that's what's happening here.

I don't think I've accused you of "being mad for being caught for the wrong reasons" at all?

[Save The Dragons]

1212 shea pushes FA without voting her and kind of explains what he's seeing
1219 FA says she's bothered by shea and klick
1221 shea backs off, helping to dismantle the pressure on her

not a smoking gun by any means but i could see it as a partnered reaction

[Save The Dragons]

does my emotion feel fake to you

[Thestatusquo]

Some of it, yeah.

I think you're making disingenuous arguments at the very least. You literally just said that no one is doing like 4 things when I had personally done like 2 of them and your response to that was like oh

Ironic that you brought up business company because the emotion there DID feel different to me.

(also you missed that I voted FA earlier and then was talked out of it by FB, who is probably also FAs buddy I guess.)

[Save The Dragons]

why

[Thestatusquo]

I dont know how to answer that and I don't know how you would even conceptualize of how you would expect me to.

[Pink Ball]

have they even meaningfully interacted with each other

give me a minute

Has FA meaningfully interacted with anyone?

[Pink Ball]

(Not meant to shade FA)

[Save The Dragons]

do you think your push on me is deep, shea

[Thestatusquo]

I don't know what that means either.

[Thestatusquo]

I think my reasons for scum reading you are good.

[Save The Dragons]

will you repeat them for me

[Thestatusquo]

I literally quoted the main two at you like 2 pages ago.

[Save The Dragons]

ok one sec

[Save The Dragons]

i used my night actions how i wanted to to try and find scum

I think your night actions make very little sense from the perspective of trying to find scum.

i don't think this makes sense. i targeted a scum read both times.

i've asked people what possible reason i would have to target ircher as scum and gotten no response

This one I know is just flatly wrong because I personally directly responded.

I think a way it could happen is if you targeted ircher with some scum role and you are trying to not get fucked by other claims and know you can be like "look surely I wouldn't claim to have targeted the conftown slot with a vig that would be kooky and zany!" but your action doesn't make a lot of sense to me either way and you using this argument as a way to respond to suspicion means there's a lot of WIFOM here.

amidst all the posts i forgot about this one. it is WIFOM but it's also true so i don't know what i'm supposed to do.

i've asked people what the scum agenda is for claiming the way i did and got no response

idk what you mean by this

this isn't fair because PB did give a reason, that i targeted ircher as scum. when pressed further, however...

i've asked people what the scum agenda is for my play this dayphase and gotten no response

Once again I've made multiple posts MYSELF so I know this to be not true.

The other thing about StD today is I just went through his whole ISO from today and it has maybe 1? thought about the alignment of another player today that isn't tried to discussing the possibility of the clear pile being scum.

It's just like openly trying to widen the PoE while being completely anti-spew.

Which is ironic because StD taught my what anti-spew means. And I think he's doing it here.

the thing is that if scum are in this situation they are absolutely forced to try to widen the PoE and that is explicitly what StD and Drixx have been doing today.

Drixx seems to now have backed off of it, and StD keeps going all "WHO ME? I would never I'm just talking about POSSIBILITIES!" every time I bring up that he's shading the group of clears but that is definitely what both of them were doing imo.

i think you're flat out wrong about this and the day's only been going on for however long, to say i'm in anti-spew mode before there's even a lot of pressure on me doesn't make a lot of sense. i think my thoughts have been hard to follow today but they've been changing rapidly. i think saying people have done magnitudes more is disingenuous and false.

[Thestatusquo]

I think that scum has to play to open the PoE in this game and you and drixx are the people doing that. Moreover I think the way you went about it was super weird where you kept subtly taking shots at the clears and when I pointed it out you were like I'M NOT DOING THAT!

I think you've been anti-spew most of today and then when I pointed it out you've tried to stop doing it immediately after. In order to justify this on your part you immediately pointed to a bunch of other players who I think have provided objectively more content on others alignments today and said WHAT ABOUT X.

In the spirit of that your PoE until I literally just held your feet to the first was basically "everyone but me" which does not strike me as a real thought on the alignments of other players. As GIF pointed out the normal reaction to not believing the clears would be try to sort people normally and end up with a PoE from there. I know you can do that because you did it earlier with pink ball so you NOT doing it here is striking. Just throwing up your hands and being like "ALL THE CLEARS COULD BE SCUM BUT I AM NOT SAYING ALL THE CLEARS ARE SCUM" is bad.

I think you are actively ignoring probability and reason in order to try to scum read me which I have a hard time seeing town!you doing. This fits with what I would expect scum you to do. See point on PoE widening earlier.

I think your action stink and I don't agree with your reasons for why they make sense. They seem to be actions of necessity with the claim pool you had rather than actual things a town player would have done.

Aside from that I think you've not done much to find scum this game at all and mostly what you've done is push town. This is a weaker point for me because I know I've also done that but its also not a non-zero point.

[Thestatusquo]

Like I KNOW I'm town, so from my PoV you attacking the clears is attacking town clears when scum needs to attack town clears to expand the PoE. You're just not going to convince me that there isn't scum motivation for doing that.

Maybe you'll convince some other people but not me.

[Thestatusquo]

I could possibly see PB not being town but that's a problem for later because I have 2 independent reasons to think he could be clear and I don't see any reason to explore that right now when the PoE is so small and certainly contains scum.

And the way you came into today it almost felt like you were putting out feelers for which conf town the rest of the town might be willing to consider limming.

[Save The Dragons]

I think that scum has to play to open the PoE in this game and you and drixx are the people doing that. Moreover I think the way you went about it was super weird where you kept subtly taking shots at the clears and when I pointed it out you were like I'M NOT DOING THAT!

i think there are people that are "clear" but not clear so i don't see the harm in educating the town on what's actually happening

i'm not sure i said that maybe i did but that would be a true statement in a town!me world so i don't see why it's scummy?

I think you've been anti-spew most of today and then when I pointed it out you've tried to stop doing it immediately after. In order to justify this on your part you immediately pointed to a bunch of other players who I think have provided objectively more content on others alignments today and said WHAT ABOUT X.

In the spirit of that your PoE until I literally just held your feet to the first was basically "everyone but me" which does not strike me as a real thought on the alignments of other players. As GIF pointed out the normal reaction to not believing the clears would be try to sort people normally and end up with a PoE from there. I know you can do that because you did it earlier with pink ball so you NOT doing it here is striking. Just throwing up your hands and being like "ALL THE CLEARS COULD BE SCUM BUT I AM NOT SAYING ALL THE CLEARS ARE SCUM" is bad.

i don't think you can argue with a straight face that I both was in anti-spew mode and accused everyone of being in the POE. i also feel like saying "you did the thing but you also are just throwing your hands up" is ignoring the fact that i did the thing. i've done a lot of talking today and it's being reduced to complaining about the game state, which is something i could easily see town or scum doing so i'm not sure why it's automatically attributed to scum.

I think you are actively ignoring probability and reason in order to try to scum read me which I have a hard time seeing town!you doing. This fits with what I would expect scum you to do. See point on PoE widening earlier.

i'm not sure why you would think this. you are not clear so you are fair game as far as i'm concerned.

I think your action stink and I don't agree with your reasons for why they make sense. They seem to be actions of necessity with the claim pool you had rather than actual things a town player would have done.

but why why would scum perform those actions

Aside from that I think you've not done much to find scum this game at all and mostly what you've done is push town. This is a weaker point for me because I know I've also done that but its also not a non-zero point.

this is a terrible point, everyone has pushed town and i've managed to stay off of wagons for who i thought was town but i'll get no credit for that :upside_down_emoji: