so thats 3 quick votes on Ven, then a couple on Sheep...I imagine sheep will show up and vote Ven, so that puts him at -1.
consider my vote ALSO on venmar...but there is no reason to speed through this day. I am going to try to reread Venmar (with a fresh eye) and see what there is to see.
that being said, Venmar, you again like Bub, wanted to put forward that I was scum, please I am interested to hear your take. Bonus points, if you lean hard into inorganic scum hunting again.
.....okay maybe it wont be a non bias eye....but I will try.
So I do feel like Venmar is scum. It was so incredibly scummy to push a case that someone's scum hunting is inorganic, then cant explain what exactly that met. It is just words you used to fluff up a bullshit case and when you were called on it, floundered. However, in the process of putting a case against you I was distracted.....there was something about ofrhz/gimili that I have never been able to let go. I am going to put this case forward first...THEN do Venmar. right now, I am a little scared off by the speed of this wagon...and reasoning.
In post 4027, Venmar wrote:
I disagree, I feel like we're not reading the same game. Especially D1 I feel like Bub would mostly pop in to voice his support for a different wagon between Andante, Hu, etc. I'm mostly going off of memory tbh but I've never found Bub's posting to be very "townie".
I ctrl+F'ed 'Bub' in your ISO, and Bub's wagon hopping seems to be a sticking point for you. Afaict, this is the primary reason you've been scumreading Bub this whole time, and the reasoning rings very hollow to me.
For clarity, Bub voted CKD, Hu Tao, Andante, and then finally KittyTacky.
I'm townreading Bub, because the reasoning behind each of these substantive votes were clear and made sense to me:
Why? None of their posts have seriously moved towards scumhunting. In fact, to the extent that they've expressed theories on how to scumhunt, they've done the opposite -- or even worse -- not followed through on what they promised/gave the illusion of doing. First:
So right off the bat I'm somewhat suspicious of both Kawaii and Hu Tao here. This is admitedly somewhat weak because the game just started, but both of these posts are really fluffy, non-commital and not progressing the game. Now, is this progressing the game more than a random vote? I dunno, but the reason why "random" votes are a thing is to create an initial paper trail of some sort...they aren't really random, so it immediately puts the scum in a bit of a pick of whether or not to bus. So far, these posts are just the most flimsy, "hey I'm here but not actually advancing the game" kind of posts.
I'm, going to go ahead and VOTE: Hu Tao
Mainly because it was another post right after a fluff post by Kawaii. Kind of reads as scum thinking "okay, need to say something now to not look suspicious" while being non-comittal.
Also going to put a
finger of suspicion on Kawaii
for similar sorts of reasons, but I think it's very unlikely that both Kawaii and Hu are scum. No way a scum comes in right after their buddy to make an almost identical post.
Im sold.
However, Im going to
vote Kawaii
I hate finger of suspicions...its like getting credit for a vote without having to do anything. If Kawaii flips scum, this looks sketchy.
consider this my
finger of suspicion (any hypocrisy) on Bub
Earlier I asked why Kawaii and not Hsu? If they believed me, why not vote for Hsu? Sure it's early and essentially a random vote, but I asked for explanation directly in post #39 and got crickets. Like, the whole idea of starting a flimsy wagon at the beginning was to generate some conversation about what scummy behavior is...but there's no effort to actually discuss that behavior.
Making some vague allusions to the idea that Andate is scummy with no follow-up or serious pursuit. Just trying to sow generally mistrust on people in low-cost ways is scummy. This makes me think Andate is town -- conditional on curiouskarmakitty being scum -- because this is way too weak to be a bus. Also, curiouskarmakitty themselves said that fingers of suspician are cheap because it's a way to get credit for suspecting folks without doing the work...but here they are doing something very similar. I know they were intentionally hypocritcal earlier for a laugh (I don't read that as scummy) but this seems actually hypocritcal in a way that would be beneficial for scum.
In post 365, curiouskarmadog wrote:
for Bub
dont want to repost the huge wall that was 242.
however my question was simply this.
in my post 136, I ask why you decided to leave off my question to Hu Tao when you made your "CKD is scummy because he is not scum hunting case". you post all my other posts, but deliberately left that post out. I wanted to know why?
and you still actually havent answered that question. Why did you chose to leave that post out when you posted ALL of my other post to "prove" your point. Clearly you cherry picked post and that post did not fit into your narrative.
Sorry about the wallposting.
I didn't cherry pick -- I picked posts that were representative. Your question to Hsu doesn't go against the narrative, in fact it exemplifies it. You asked Hsu a banal and vague question that's unlikely to actually advance the game state. But you did it to make it look like you were scumhunting so you could point to it if and when accused of not scumhunting.
Look back at my post, I actually think I did myself a disservice by not quoting your question to Hsu in post #95 because it would have made my point stronger. It fed into my vibes that you were posting stuff that wans't meaningfully scumhunting but in the moment I was posting the other examples sprung more easily to mind.
I also did answer your question to me in post #242 but I guess you didn't like/notice my answer.
In post 406, curiouskarmadog wrote:
At this point, I really dont know if you are scum or just laser focused on a wrong read. So we all know you are set on me being scum....what are your other Scum reads?
Right now, I feel like the stuff you've done is clearly the scummiest out of anyone. The weak, wishy-washy "scumhunting," overly defensive and reactive reaction to serious pressure, and the scummiest possible claim means that my scumread of you is stronger than anyone else.
Ballpoint seems like a likely scumbud with you. Hopped off the wagon as soon as it got serious and slid onto the Andate wagon for questionable reasons. Also, as other people have been saying, they post a lot without saying much. Just feels like they're trying to play it both ways -- get credit for being on their scumbud's wagon (in case you're eliminated).
Glitch was a scumread, but that was based on them promising content and not delivering. They've more or less delivered, so there's no particular reason to think they're scum. At this point they're a null read for me. In isolation their posts seem fairly townie, but the analysis could have just been in response to the pressure.
I'm somewhat suspicious of Stargazer and Hu at this point. Stargazer's just been a lurker. Their iso has got basically no content. Town do lurk all the time, so it's not that alignment indicated, but I don't want them to get away with it. Hu is a difficult read for me because I feel like I have some first impression bias, but maybe I'm overcorrecting? I started the wagon early on them for flimsy reasons for the purpose of generating some conversation, and my immediate read on their reaction was townie, more as a vibes thing. But recently they've been lurking. As soon as the serious pressure dropped off Hu receded into the background.
In post 543, Kowahbunga wrote:
Honestly, the game should head more towards holding the least contributing person's toe to the fire. The more scum talk, the more caught they get imo
Yeah, I see the point. At the very least lurking is anti-town, so pressuring lurkers to contribute can help the town even if the lurker is town.
I still think that Hu is scummier than Stargazer because I think their lurking reads as more strategic.
In post 816, Bub Bidderskins wrote:
Still prefer a Hu lim here as they've been more actively scummy I feel. NJAC reads as just more of a lurker/low activity player. Hu's pattern of activity reads to me as more alignment indicative while limming NJAC feels more like a policy lim than anything.
What you think is "wagon hopping" I think was genuine belief that these people were scum. I think if you cared to look at the reasoning why Bub made these vote changes, you would see a clear trajectory behind why he scumread these people. Instead, I think your scumread here is fairly lazy and doesn't demonstrate intent to understand people's reads.
I also gleaned that day 1 last a month; voting four people isn't a lot at all for an absurdly long time, and anyone would want to move their vote to end the day when day drags on like that. Andante was a compromise vote to end the day.
Evidence of Bub wanting to end the day:
In post 1547, Bub Bidderskins wrote:
I'd be down on a flash wagon on Bub if it means we end this goddman day.
(btw don't see scum saying this)
btw, there were also many wagons Bub was vocally opposed to: Cephrir (aka me), NJAC, Glitch/Enchant, Skygazer (just look at VCs).
Came in townreading Bub. With what? A page 5 case his made? We are 100pages into the game, you think think that the page 5 case because his "reasoning was substantive"? I am having a hard time swallowing that.
and Gimili's thoughts on Bub were hard to swallow too.
other than I liked the way he was pushing carmadog and bbp early. I also felt when doing a proper re-read of the game,
you went from hard town to I dont remember much of his posting. That was a quick pivot. Also which part of the push on me did you like exactly? Like the part where he said I wasnt scum hunting and conveniently leaving out the posts where I was doing just that.
anyway back to OFR
In post 4070, ofrhz wrote:
I think you have been hunting, but I'm also strongly townreading you for your emotional response to certain things and for how Kitty played around you. so I'm reading the game very differently from Bub. Reading the game differently doesn't make someone scum, however.
Has Bub been saying you haven't been scumhunting? Bub initially scumread you for your positioning around the Andante wagon, and then later for reflexively sussing him back. So a lot of this is reading TvT to me: CKD thinks Bub was testing the waters early today, Bub doesn't think CKD is scumhunting because CKD's just immediately sussed him back, CKD doesn't think Bub is scumhunting because Bub is tunneled... like you've had this 1v1 simmering below the surface since day 1.
I'll be honest - there are aspects to both of your cases that aren't convincing to me: you accusing Bub for "testing the waters", and Bub's argument that you're just OMGUS'ing to name two
Neither of you are making compelling cases on the other, yet I think both of you believe in your reads. Does that make sense? That's why I'm skeptical of Venmar saying it's SvS because they don't agree with either of you.... that just looks like opportunistically taking advantage of two people tunneled on each other.
My biggest problem with Bub (like Venmar) was his/their given "reasons" he thought I was scummy. They just were bad. Not like OMGUS bad, just bad. Given the facts of the game at that point, there is no way anyone would have thought I was scum given those reasons. He also kept saying I wasnt scum hunting, which wasnt true..at all. Like Venmar
IN your defense here, you were going after Venmar that day...WHO I ALSO think is scum.
.......
......
jesus...
as I am typing this...I just cant get over Venmar.
I think I have a ScumCrush on him.
I keep going back reading Gimli looking for posts that look scummy.
Gim did join the Bub wagon, when they could have easily stayed on the Sky wagon (who was leading at the time)
Gim did constantly sing Bub's praises as town....
I dont know.
Venmar is just so fucking scummy. There isnt enough with OFR/Gim that makes me want to vote them over Venmar.
going to go back to looking through Venmar's posts.
I kinda was gonna ask the same thing, but since you are here....
Why not Venmar?
Is this is coming from a card carrying member of the sheep wagon.
'dREW DID IT BETTER' - T-Bone
'doctor drew our hero' - Shiki
'I love playing with him, he's got an amazing presence to him that just feels like the game is lacking something when he's not there' - JacksonVirgo
I kinda was gonna ask the same thing, but since you are here....
Why not Venmar?
Is this is coming from a card carrying member of the sheep wagon.
It could be Venmar, I'm just conscious that Sheep was saved by a town elimination yesterday despite conftown leading a vote on them
I get it, and I am partly to blame for that.
But I just keep going back and forth on them, felt like they both could be scum, but the amount of people trying to drive it one way or another, makes me take pause on that read.
'dREW DID IT BETTER' - T-Bone
'doctor drew our hero' - Shiki
'I love playing with him, he's got an amazing presence to him that just feels like the game is lacking something when he's not there' - JacksonVirgo
I kinda was gonna ask the same thing, but since you are here....
Why not Venmar?
Is this is coming from a card carrying member of the sheep wagon.
It could be Venmar, I'm just conscious that Sheep was saved by a town elimination yesterday despite conftown leading a vote on them
I get it, and I am partly to blame for that.
But I just keep going back and forth on them, felt like they both could be scum, but the amount of people trying to drive it one way or another, makes me take pause on that read.
I kinda was gonna ask the same thing, but since you are here....
Why not Venmar?
Is this is coming from a card carrying member of the sheep wagon.
It could be Venmar, I'm just conscious that Sheep was saved by a town elimination yesterday despite conftown leading a vote on them
I get it, and I am partly to blame for that.
But I just keep going back and forth on them, felt like they both could be scum, but the amount of people trying to drive it one way or another, makes me take pause on that read.
I'm trynna drive it onto sheep, and I'm town
In post 4597, furtiveglance wrote:
Also, if you don't trust my reads, STD was most suspicious of sheep before he died. That was his #1 scumread.
Oh, no I wasn't talking about you.
Just seems to be others trying to push onto Sheep and onto Venmar(or vice versa), and even bringing up other wagon options is making think this isn't scum scum.
'dREW DID IT BETTER' - T-Bone
'doctor drew our hero' - Shiki
'I love playing with him, he's got an amazing presence to him that just feels like the game is lacking something when he's not there' - JacksonVirgo
In post 4599, Skygazer wrote:
idk i think vig claim is/was enough to give me pause on sheep
You mean when they shot you but you somehow didn't die?
'dREW DID IT BETTER' - T-Bone
'doctor drew our hero' - Shiki
'I love playing with him, he's got an amazing presence to him that just feels like the game is lacking something when he's not there' - JacksonVirgo
