I'm going to ask if you're town here to take a minute to hear me out rather than instaly voting me. I know there was a plan set in motion and it was agreed upon by dead townies that we'd follow through with it. But it was obvious to me even yesterday that something was wrong and someone was being miscleared. People refusing to think and playing on autopilot is how games are lost.
I will remind you that
i was perfectly okay with dying on Day 3
. I recignized that my play to that point had made me a liability and it would be difficult to get people to trust me.
I am not okay with being the game-losing mis-elim
. If you wanted to kill me, you should have done it then. That was the moment you could turn your brain off because we had the kill to spare. Instead, you need to actually evaluate my alignmnt here. And I don't think it's impossible to find me as town here - the reasons people have given for me being town on previous days are all more or less true still. You just need to open your mind to realize someone is being incorrectly written off.
So this is what I am proposing:
First of all, give me time to talk.
It doesn't cost you anything - we have plenty of time this day phase. I would appreciate the courtesy. If, at the end of my time, I am unable to be convincing, then I am willing to accept that faailure. All I ask is to be given a chance.
I'm going to start off with towncasing myself. I normally never do anything like this, because I think it's mostly a waste. I didn't bother doing it when I was on the block Day 3. But the fact I am town is the one thing I'm absolutely sure of, and so I want to start off establishing why that is. I really think that anyone even remotely familiar with my play could see I don't play this game the way I have as scum.
After that, I am going to try to solve the game and point toward the last scum. I don't know who that is yet. I explicitly discouraged my team from trying to help with reads overnight, because I flat out was not sure I would be given a chance here. But if you're willing to give me the floor, I want to try to get an answer, even if it's solely for my own gratification. I was able to figure out Radical Rat. I believe I can figure out who the last scum is.
You don't have to worry about me pulling some kind of trick here.
Let me be the first one to vote
. If absolutely nothing else, I want to say I got it right, for personal pride where everyone else failed.
Again, just hear me out here. It literally costs you nothing.
In post 1950, petapan wrote:
But it was obvious to me even yesterday that something was wrong and someone was being miscleared.
This one is interested by this comment because it feels like the obvious takeaway is "HPE sus" but it also can easily posture towards wgeurts...? Like some kind of Ninja theory? Dunno, waiting for wgeurts and peta before this one really tries to get into the thick of things.
not a person, just a doll~
this one refers to itself in the third person Get To Know A Doll
In post 1950, petapan wrote:
But it was obvious to me even yesterday that something was wrong and someone was being miscleared.
This one is interested by this comment because it feels like the obvious takeaway is "HPE sus" but it also can easily posture towards wgeurts...? Like some kind of Ninja theory? Dunno, waiting for wgeurts and peta before this one really tries to get into the thick of things.
my team has been of the opinion that it's wgeurts, them changing the plan yesterday in twilight ensured that i wasn't tracked to absolutely no benefit to the town. in theory this would set up a me vs. you situation which is obviously beneficial to them. they wanted that plan supposedly to confirm both you and adorable but if they were actually confident in their reads if you two it wouldn't matter. i should have been the logical target in any world and changing it there was a huge red flag to my team
additionally to emphasize this, wgeurts was trying to direct and control yesterday. they were playing for a win, trying to set things up into a scenario that was ideal for them. meanwhile, i've had literally no agency in this game. i've been on the chopping block for days, i've had no value to my input beyond suggesting adorable be protected by the doctor. LLD is saying there were machinations behind the scenes to set me up as the final mischop. you have to understand that scum are
setting up for a win
, and my play for...basically the entire game has been not doing that, especially seeing as i've had almost no agency this game
meanwhile, if i'm scum, what is my path to victory supposed to even be? set up a plan that makes my life harder and double back and second guess, offer to die in the hope no one calls my bluff? that's not a way to win or how anyone expected to win. of course i was suspecting adorable yesterday, but that is because i am town, i am coming from a place of being uninformed, and in that spot i get paranoid. it does me no goddamn good to start paranoia'ing someone if i'm just going to nightkill them anyway. i could have slammed home the hammer on radical rat within minutes on Day 4 and I didn't, when extending the day there as scum only increases the likelihood things go bad for me.
i will again be upfront with saying i've played absolutely terribly this game and i have to own that - i've been aggressively wrong at basically all turns.
the thing is, though, i am generally speaking competent as scum, and my play this game is completely and totally against any kind of scum win condition. can point to my established history of any scumgame i've played in the last 3 years to demonstrate this.
in general, on day 1 i pushed,suspected a ton of people, and was abrasive as hell. in general, as scum, you want people to actually
be on your side
and playing like i did achieves the opposite of that. as town i push a lot of people because i believe in applying pressure to get better reads, but also just because i'm very paranoid.
For a very recent example of my scumgame that had a game play out similarly to this, reference my ISO in Newbie 2104, as well as the accompanying scum PT. In that game, my partner came under suspicion early, and had an absolutely terrible reaction to it. While at first I tried to downplay the push against him, because losing a partner Day 1 is bad, and also because I wanted to help him out rather than immediately bussing him, it soon became clear he was a complete fucking idiot (he ate a permaban for transphobia so i'll talk shit). To that end, I eventually moved my vote onto him, and pushed weakly. I wanted to be on the wagon early in case he died that day, which ended up being what happened. To that end, I used the towncred from bussing him to avoid being targeted by the game's PR, and was able to carry to endgame, getting 3 mis-elims. The only time a player had serious suspicion on me I worked to discredit him and debate every point he made.
So, what is the takeaway from this? In general, in a game with 2 scum, if one gets in trouble early, the other needs to
position themselves well
in order to win the game. They need to at least be seen as having a handin scum's death, because people are less likely to suspect someone who does that. In general, I tend to err on the side of caution and will cut a teammate loose if they are likely to get in trouble.
Meanwhile,
if you look at my play this game, it is the opposite of that
. It makes no logical sense from the perspective of a scum win condition.
while i briefly suspected cerb early (299), i turned around to defending him after the claim on Day 1. the thing about this is that scum that gets run up and claims PR on Day 1 is, more often than not, a dead man walking. They might make it a day or two, but in general they are going to run into some obstacles: people will question why they're alive, and they will find that player's role doesn't fit when the town mass claims. Similary, at the start of Day 2 i come around to thinking Cerb might be scum (1175), only to turn around and start defending him and wagoning Radical Rat, when it is clear the majority of the game is against him.
this is basically completely illogical and anti-win condition as scum - in both instances, if i was scum with Cerb, i would have the setup to bus/distance, only to pass it up and defend a partner who was never going to endgame. in particular on day 2 my play would be completely nonsensical - with the elimination on cerb being
fait accompli
, trying to push a wagon on town radical rat there would be outright throwing - radical rat was never dying that day and i looked like a fool for trying. even if they did, the whole thing likely comes back on my head the next day, and cerb clearly was not trying to save himself. That's another thing - cerb clearly gave up and stopped trying sometime after i defended him, where if i'm in a PT with him i would know he was probably going to give up and not stick my neck out like a fucking idiot. i would have entered the day primed to throw him under the bus, it makes no sense for me as scum to set that up and back out of it at the last second. it's the opposite of a good plan.
meanwhile, cerb didn't really speak to me like a partner:
In post 299, petapan wrote:
cerb mostly comes across as null in everything he's posted so far. but maybe scummy given the lack of solid stances in all that posts. (i have an instinctive bias against quote stripes that has little basis in reality though)
Perfect. Play is coming across exactly as intended to those who don't know me! ^^ If you could just hold me right there in the "just scummy appearing enough that scum will never NK me" zone I would appreciate it.
he starts off with trying to respond playfully to me to dismiss my suspicion of him. that in and of itself isn't telling but look where he goes after that:
In post 852, Cerberus v666 wrote:
Hey Peta,I just skimmed your ISO because I couldn't recall anything you've done this game.
Where are you at with regards to Jingle? You stated earlier that Jingle/Porkens are your scum reads, which naturally implies that as a team, but later on you say that Porkens lack of presence, if scum, makes the game a bit harder because their teammate has abandoned them - thus implying that your other read isn't relevant/that you no longer scumread Jingles. What is the case there?
he goes from being cutesy to trying to pressure me
Especially because they're ignoring my question. But maybe they just didn't see it.
and suddenly that's enough to want to hammer me?
In post 929, Cerberus v666 wrote:
Jingle position currently, to keep it simple. You had porkens and Jingle at the bottom of your reads list, but later on you said that porkens lack of associatives was going to make this harder, which implies that your read has changed on Jingle or that you don't think a jingle/porkens scum team is a thing.
Fate: I count 3 for Peta, 4 if you include survivalist vote from porkens, 5 for the same from adorable, and a number of undecideds who would probably be equally willing to go to there as porkens.
In post 929, Cerberus v666 wrote:
Jingle position currently, to keep it simple. You had porkens and Jingle at the bottom of your reads list, but later on you said that porkens lack of associatives was going to make this harder, which implies that your read has changed on Jingle or that you don't think a jingle/porkens scum team is a thing.
Fate: I count 3 for Peta, 4 if you include survivalist vote from porkens, 5 for the same from adorable, and a number of undecideds who would probably be equally willing to go to there as porkens.
Unsure if momentum if there though I suppose, but just noting that the game is far more willing to go for peta than you're trying to say Fate.
In post 929, Cerberus v666 wrote:
Jingle position currently, to keep it simple. You had porkens and Jingle at the bottom of your reads list, but later on you said that porkens lack of associatives was going to make this harder, which implies that your read has changed on Jingle or that you don't think a jingle/porkens scum team is a thing.
Fate: I count 3 for Peta, 4 if you include survivalist vote from porkens, 5 for the same from adorable, and a number of undecideds who would probably be equally willing to go to there as porkens.
Holy shit peta fucking read. Lol. What is your position on Jingle/explain that progression above. Thank you.
if you look at the end of Day 1, Cerb was actively trying to push against me because I missed a question of his, and trying to argue there was more support for eliminating me than people thought. he comes off as weirdly aggressive toward me. meanwhile, i'm totally deferential in my responses to him, i don't really fight back. If distancing is supposed to be a dance, I'm playing like I have two left feet - I'm clearly not on the same page as Cerb at all. I can't really say how viable it was that I would actually die Day 1, but in a hypothetical world where I'm scum with Cerb, him pushing me over Day 1 would mean we automatically lose. And again, in response to all of this, I don't push back on him at all. It doesn't make any sense as a scum gameplan.
Again, I will admit my reads this game have been atrocious, easily the worst out of anyone, by no stretch can i claim to have played well, but this is all a product of me being informed - I don't know anyone's alignment, and so I've been incredibly fucking wrong for the majority of the game. If you actually stop to consider "does this person's play make sense as furthering a scum win condition", I don't fit that mold, at all.
In post 1957, petapan wrote:
Again, I will admit my reads this game have been atrocious, easily the worst out of anyone, by no stretch can i claim to have played well, but this is all a product of me being
*uninformed
- I don't know anyone's alignment, and so I've been incredibly fucking wrong for the majority of the game. If you actually stop to consider "does this person's play make sense as furthering a scum win condition", I don't fit that mold, at all.
In post 1950, petapan wrote:
But it was obvious to me even yesterday that something was wrong and someone was being miscleared.
This one is interested by this comment because it feels like the obvious takeaway is "HPE sus" but it also can easily posture towards wgeurts...? Like some kind of Ninja theory? Dunno, waiting for wgeurts and peta before this one really tries to get into the thick of things.
i'm assuming you did in fact track adorable, then
Correct. She protected me, so this one isn't sure if it was an attempt to kill me or to frame me along the lines of "adorable died, so hpe can say whatever it wants, how sus..."
not a person, just a doll~
this one refers to itself in the third person Get To Know A Doll
Also: You make a fairly compelling case but this one also literally tracked wgeurts. Ninja isn't impossible considering the signs pointing towards King Boo, but it just seems unlikely to have lined up on the night this one ended up tracking them pretty much at random, unless it's like constant ninja which would be absolutely miserable.
not a person, just a doll~
this one refers to itself in the third person Get To Know A Doll
In post 1961, HighPrincessErinys wrote:
Also: You make a fairly compelling case but this one also literally tracked wgeurts. Ninja isn't impossible considering the signs pointing towards King Boo, but it just seems unlikely to have lined up on the night this one ended up tracking them pretty much at random, unless it's like constant ninja which would be absolutely miserable.
i think it's entirely plausible and you need to contemplate why roles exist in the setup
fate's role likely existed for a reason - i had thought it was possibly a red herring but my team told me that would have been bad design
we have
confirmed
info that fate got no result on the flipped scum. as a fact.
if we accept that fate's role existed in the setup for a reason, then it must be to get a result on the remaining scum.
if that is the case, it is highly unlikely that the setup would feature two roles that can get a guilty on that player - then scum would hardly stand a chance
look at the flips so far
even night tracker
ghost hunter
bodyguard
2-shot rolestopper
adding in your UB claim that is a lot of town power. scum solely having a roleblocker as a counter to that isn't enough.
but ultimately, it just makes
sense
- if town has a ghost hunter, the scum team must have a ghost. and flavorwise, it makes sense for the ghost to be track-immune - boo can turn invisible.
fate was killed
for a reason
- this was over the town bodyguard and the town rolestopper. ask yourself why that happened. it's because scum were most concerned with fate's role.
by the mechanics of the role, tracker results are intended to be ambiguous - a clear is not always a full clear, and that includes the possibility of a ninja. that's why the role gets used rather than having a full cop. you can't rely solely on the mechanics because they are
intended to be unreliable
. even if you have a result, you have to actually make social reads before deciding whether to trust it. and again if you bother to actually make socal reads, my play just does not make sense as being from scum
That's... true, actually. Hm. This whole thing reeks of wacky but this one is definitely waiting for the wgeurts side of things before making any decision.
not a person, just a doll~
this one refers to itself in the third person Get To Know A Doll
In post 1965, wgeurts wrote:
Yeah Petas only option is to go for me as there's no world I can be convinced to vote HPE, I'll read up, but Peta isn't town.
I dislike this because I have 20 pages left to go but there's no real point if we're just going to do this, undeniably scum is one of you three however and I think it's optimal as such.
so did you just give up on rereading the game or are those your conclusions
Last day I did but I'm giving it more time now, I'm not gonna lie I did not realise my vote was the hammer and won't be doing so until I have time to post not from mobile.
In post 1917, wgeurts wrote:
Okay I really don't have a reason to drag this out.
VOTE: Radical Rat
No I haven't read all the pages, and I could have taken the time to give in-depth thoughts on the slots, but regardless of the result I'm always voting RR today. I'd rather get the result of this, base further analysis off the flip, and then talk to clean up the game from there.
i still honestly didn't mind wgeurts's day 1. the over the top attempted burial of hpe was something not many scum go for. i question if i was just getting pocketed because they were defending me though
i think while the falloff in later days isn't necessarily alignment related the constant promises to deliver and then just hammering days and sending them to close early bugs the hell out of me. it comes across as rushing to get through the days while barely putting in any sort of effort and i can see clear scum motivation in that scum being townread/mostly assumed clear is going to want to rush the game forward. this is the type of stuff my teammates have been screaming at me about
This whole thing is giving me an existential crisis because peta's towncase is very very reasonable and there is a rather realistic chance wgeurts was untrackable this whole time. Like, considering Jingle was UTTERLY insistent on getting killed and then flipped town, peta being perfectly okay with dying in RR's place yesterday is feeling towny as he says. 1970's pointing out some weird shit too, so that's just further adding to the pile of Fuck . Not doing anything before wgeurts posts their argument but it's actually looking like a Believe Peta moment?? idfk dude
not a person, just a doll~
this one refers to itself in the third person Get To Know A Doll
In post 611, Fate wrote:
Not caught up myself either but wagoning an afk person doesn't seem this most productive course of action
Even porkens is better at this point
Yeah these Cerbs votes are fine imo but the timing is just a little... opportunistic, kinda?? But Cerb is either way a slot this one has had doubts about for a while because what he's offered in his posts when he's around feels kinda lacking.
In post 1973, petapan wrote:
hpe, talk to me about how and why you went from being suspicious of cerb to thinking he was town on day 2
Had to do some ISO skimming to refresh my memory.
But yeah to be honest, Cerb did just kinda... keep doing what this one was suspicious about him for? But it primarily just... believed the claim for the most part. Like, it made sense for Mario to be in a Mario game, after all. Beyond that and into tangible play, it also felt (at the time) like he was ramping his effort up a bit more i.e. with the ISOs, and this one was pretty sure RR was trying to get a Cerb/Fate miselim of some kind going which made Cerb look a bit more towny to it in that case. It was admittedly a kind of short-sighted belief in him but this one has kinda been running on fumes for a while honestly and he seemed like disinterested town at the time, as he claimed to be.
not a person, just a doll~
this one refers to itself in the third person Get To Know A Doll
