BooneyToonz XVI: Boons Ahoy! - [END]

[NorwegianboyEE]

In the back of my mind there are signs that make me think this could go wrong but I feel like I need the flip tbh so…

I think Ranger would be highly competent no matter their alignment, but there is still some indisputably scummy things about the slot, such as the fact that they townread Theta yesterday and then acted like they actually scumread it very highly at the span of the night in next day when it was already been made confirmed dead scum. And then the fact that they tried to peddle the blatantly fake nonsense.
It could be explainable from a town mindset as most things can, but overall i don't trust it enough to unvote since this feels like the best current lead.

[Doctor Drew]

Btw drew u should mentally note that it’s in hammer range I think

Didn't think it was that close, but did just skim from the last VC and I believe that is E-1 now.

[Enchant]

I have no desire

[Enchant]

I didn't hammer twice

So i am twice conftown

[TemporalLich]

yeah... Ranger's distortion of thoughts makes Ranger an excellent lim

pedit: yeah Ranger is at E-1 right now I believe

[Doctor Drew]

I didn't hammer twice

So i am twice conftown

Lock town, never lim.

[Boonskiies]

Vote Count 2.04

Ranger [6]:

NorwegianboyEE, Klick, Frogs, Firebringer, TemporalLich, Doctor Drew

Emperor flippyNips [3]:

Enchant, Peregrine, Here There Be Dragons

Frogs [1]:

Ranger,

Enchant [1]:

Kitty Trauma Team

Not Voting

[1]: Emperor flippyNips

With

12

alive, it takes

7

to fade.

Day 2

ends

(expired on 2023-06-04 01:30:00)

Mod Notes:

Happy Birthday, Norwe.

[Firebringer]

I didn't hammer twice

So i am twice conftown

Never doubted you buddy

[Firebringer]

Scum who had Norwee as null or scum aren't going to perceive Norwee as largely townread, given their own stance and the stance of half the players in the game was largely null.

This is confusing.
Scum are faking reads they are more aware of gamestate then everyone else because they are looking to see who is willing to shift to where and who in the town is actually townread by other townies. They can shift their reads to more be aligned to town or try to break up townreads as neccessary so when you say "scum aren't going to perceive norwee as largely townread when they put them at null or scum" i go....no that isn't how that works at all. They are looking at who is townread by everyone else not themselves.

Like this is 101 kind of stuff i think. What are you talking about.

[Firebringer]

I didn't hammer twice

So i am twice conftown

Lock town, never lim.

[Firebringer]

Voting Ranger is a good business investment

I make bad business decisions.

But let's change that I guess

VOTE: Ranger

#NotInvestmentAdvice

[Peregrine]

Okay I have read to the current page!! This game is an absolute mess!!

I feel the most important place to start is Ranger!

I'm having trouble distinguishing the motives behind this route of play! Because from my perspective, Ranger is taking a lot of things that she believes and is acting like a battering ram to everyone else! But I don't agree with the things that she's saying, and I think the point where I really felt that was the point where she was interpreting the number of reads on Whemestar and Norwegian (happy birthday!!) was done to benefit her perspective, not so much as the truth of things! Because I do not feel that Norwegian wasn't townread, and if we have corroborating evidence via someone's actions I feel it is more likely that he was the shot! (I have opinions about whether or not the information regarding the disabler should be taken as truth or not, but I am of the opinion that lying about it isn't very worth it for mafia unless they care enough to push a narrative of Norwegian as town, which... is a rabbit hole to go down!!)

She is in the same place for me as Temporal where I do not understand the core thought process otherwise!! I feel as if the focus on the nightkill and solving based on that has taken up more bandwidth than necessary, and feels as if it's a very specific thing to make reads off of in a mafia-y way, if that makes sense? When they pick an anchor point and branch out and solve from it but solve without a lot of depth or sense behind it, but it looks good when presented!

My only concern (well, I guess directly related to Ranger!! Because I do have another!) is that it's clearly not working and she is about to die but she hasn't decided to do anything else but continue to argue! I suppose if you are mafia, at some point you have to lock yourself in, but I often assume that mafia are trying to do things to keep themselves safe and alive! And when it doesn't work, they bail! I do think someone pointed out that Ranger changed her core narrative at one point which may have been her trying to redirect to something people would respond better to!!

So, Ranger, I am asking you to please claim? Right now it does not look like anyone is willing to change to another wagon, and I am curious why you haven't voted Emperor yet! Because that was the other wagon that people were interested in today, and they are lower in your reads, but you have stuck to Frogs!! Which may make my curiosity seem silly, because you have said quite a few times you think Frogs is mafia, but you do not seem interested either in pushing there to survive and continue to fight for your worldview!!

-

That segues into my next point: I really don't think Dragons is mafia!!

They are being pushed as a likely teammate to Ranger, but in the face of today I think they may have tried to do something more than act very defeatist!! Because a lot of people think that by acting as if you want to die will save you from pressure, but it never pans out far! No one really wants to die in games!! But there is a lot of room in the game for Dragons to do anything else than just give up that might get them further into the game that doesn't interest them!

And I kind of think the attitude they have at this point was!! Naturally built up rather than an act, if that makes sense!! From the beginning of the game there has been a resistance to them being townread, which I have also agreed with! Because I do not think that they have done anything towny, but the reaction now feels like the culmination of feelings that someone would have if they were unable to have any agency in a game! And to do it now as mafia would be out of place especially if Ranger is your partner, because people will revisit it the next day and you won't have done anything but lined yourself up to die because it then looks really!!! Weird!!! If you are suddenly like I want to live after doing all of that!!

-

I think that Ranger, if mafia, has behaved in a way that indicates Emperor as her partner! The low placement in her reads but the unwillingness to vote him, combined with this:

Guess i’ll vote here since nobody cares about Emperor wagon.

I'll fully confess it's possible Emperor fits the profile for scum leaders who'd be threatened by Norwee.

I also saw Emperor's iso was fairly barren when I was looking for reads.

It's certainly possible Emperor flippyNips is scum, and Norwee was killed due to scumreads on both Flippy

and

Theta.

Feels as if she is unwilling to press on him! And it stands out more because I feel it is one of the few times recently that Ranger has made a concession in her posting towards other people, which is of note! And this also lines up with their commentary about Theta as well as Dragons' post about the neighborhood being dull when it came to those two interacting! I could see a world where those two tried to interact for the sake of pocketing a town player in their neighborhood!!

-

I am!! A little tired now after typing up all of this but I want to loop back to the other concern I mentioned with seeing Ranger as mafia and that is!! I have a tinfoil theory that has not went away after I thought of it, and it worries me a little! I want to say that I have a weird feeling about Klick and Temporal's interactions with one another because I do not still think that Temporal is very towny and I still do not understand the arguments that they are making much of the time, and Klick has a different attitude than he had early game from my perspective in a way that perplexes me! I don't know if I am trying to be too smart but it feels more aggressive than day one, which I know is because you are less certain of things and have less information but it stuck out to me how these two were lifting up one another and it feels like engaging with one another in a way that I felt was odd, but I!! Kind of think I am paranoid sometimes, but if I was right and did not say something I would feel bad about it later so if anyone wants to respond to this or if they agree or disagree I would really appreciate it!!

Sorry to Klick and Temporal if I am needlessly worrying about you and I am wrong, especially to Temporal!!

-

Other than that!! I have had some other errant thoughts that I do not want to spend a lot of time diving into right now, but!! If the day has not ended (and I really would like people to give Ranger time to claim!!) when I am back later tonight, I will expand on them but this felt like it had to be written up now!!!

[NorwegianboyEE]

This might sound extremely weird, but i feel Klick is pretty alive and maybe even slightly erratic in this game, and i think that’s different from their scumgame which i view as slightly more sterile and clean.

[NorwegianboyEE]

But i’ll admit i’ve had moments of paranoia.

[Firebringer]

Peregrine did you receive a Bip last night

[Ranger]

I have never seen this arrogant version of Ranger before, feels like it pained her to admit she might be somewhat wrong.

Well, I always want to be right.

Still, I'll fully admit when I'm wrong.

I was wrong to think Norwee wasn't townread at all. He was.
I was wrong to think Norwee couldn't be the kill. He could've been.
I was wrong in my assumption WhemeStar would've protected TemporalLich. He definitely protected Norwee.

However, I'll stand by things I'm

not

wrong about.

The evidence for Norwee being the kill isn't compelling. It

exists

, and is

plausible

; it's equally plausible WhemeStar was directly shot. I'm not wrong on this.

Yet, if we investigate under the world Norwee was the kill, it has implications.

If NorwegianboyEE was killed N1, it means the scum shotcaller viewed Norwee as a threat. This requires scum to believe something about Norwee is threatening, beyond just his Theta Alpine scumread. Theta Alpine, as a goon, was the most disposable member of the scumteam. She was expendable. Norwee threatening her doesn't make Norwee the top threat in the game. There's presumably four scum in the game. Every player has at least one player scumreading them. Whoever the scum shotcaller is, they likely would have at least one player who fingered them, no matter how briefly.
Ergo, Norwee would need to present a tangible threat beyond

just

Theta Alpine.

The possibilities of Norwee being a threat are, exactly, {Norwee was fingering more scum than just Theta Alpine, Norwee was killed because scum thought he was too town}.

If Norwee was killed for being too town, it means scum would need to be aware of the townreads. This indicates scum among those townreading him, because the Norwee townreads were invisible to those outside the group. Nobody except those townreading Norwee knew Norwee was being townread.

If Norwee was killed for fingering more scum than just Theta Alpine, the possible scum are {Frogs, Emperor flippyNips} as Norwee didn't finger any other players D1.

I'll maintain that as truth, because it is.

[Ranger]

Not sure what to make of it, but I am liking her less and less, didn't like the votes on her initially, but she definitely is sliding down my reads.

If you're interested, Doctor Drew

is

displaying blatant opportunism.

When I flip town, you should be ashamed of letting it slide because of your biases.

[Ranger]

In the back of my mind there are signs that make me think this could go wrong but I feel like I need the flip tbh so…

Well if the scum kill is disabled the scum certainly need a mislim today, so...

[Ranger]

I think Ranger would be highly competent no matter their alignment, but there is still some indisputably scummy things about the slot, such as the fact that they townread Theta yesterday and then acted like they actually scumread it very highly at the span of the night in next day when it was already been made confirmed dead scum.

Yeah because I investigated Theta Alpine last night.

You also seem to ignore how I initially had Theta Alpine as scum.

It wasn't as if I had her as town the entire game.

My original scumread on her which changed into a townread is part of

why

I investigated her last night.
I had her as scum, then changed to town; Students flipping town made me reconsider, come back to scum, and decide to check her.

[Ranger]

yeah... Ranger's distortion of thoughts makes Ranger an excellent lim

To what distorted thoughts do you refer?

[Ranger]

Scum are faking reads they are more aware of gamestate then everyone else because they are looking to see who is willing to shift to where and who in the town is actually townread by other townies.

Yes, scum fake reads.
Yes, scum are more aware of the gamestate.
For scum to be aware of Norwee being townread, they need to have had focus on it.

What would make scum focus on Norwee having townreads?

Plenty of players had multiple townreads of great strength. Klick for instance was near-universally topping towncharts yesterday.

What would make scum focus on

five

townreads on, of all players, Norwee?

They'd need to think Norwee's townreads were particularly threatening compared to townreads on other players.

There wasn't big talks of Norwee being town.

There wasn't an overwhelming majority thinking Norwee was town.

Only 1/3rd of the town had Norwee as town.

For Norwee's townreads to pose a threat in scum's perspective requires them to have been aware of those townreads on Norwee and have a warped perspective on them.

Objectively, Norwee wasn't overwhelmingly universally town.

For scum to

perceive

Norwee as overwhelmingly town requires scum to be among those townreading Norwee.

Let me word it simply;
Objectively, it's a fact only 1/3rd of the players townread Norwee.
Objectively, it's a fact Norwee being townread wasn't a focus of D1.

If Norwee was only townread by a small fraction of the playerlist,
And if Norwee wasn't the focus of D1,
What would make scum view Norwee being townread as a threat worthy of killing him?

The obvious answer is scum had a heightened awareness of Norwee compared to other players.
Who would have a heightened awareness of Norwee? The players having Norwee as null, or the players with a read on Norwee?

[Klick]

Yeah because I investigated Theta Alpine last night.

Paraphrasing a Role PM takes seconds; fabricating a fakeclaim takes an eternity.

[TemporalLich]

yeah... Ranger's distortion of thoughts makes Ranger an excellent lim

To what distorted thoughts do you refer?

that entire bit about everyone townreading Whemestar and then explaining it away as everyone reading Whemestar as more towny late D1 is a good example of distorted thoughts

[Ranger]

Because I do not feel that Norwegian wasn't townread

I went through D1 to provide a tally.
Norwee was townread, but far from universally.
Norwee had a grand total of five players townreading him--yourself among them.

Five, of fifteen total. (14 aside from Norwee.)

Only 1/3rd of the game had Norwee as a townread.

That's certainly not insignificant!

Norwee was fairly townread. 5/15 is enough to warrant being called so.

The people who townread Norwee, however, consistently seem to believe Norwee was more townread than he actually was.

Again, Norwee was townread by only five players in total.

Far from a universal townread.

If Norwee was killed because scum believed he was widely townread, that means those five townreads stood out to scum disproportionately.

I've observed the people townreading Norwee all insisting Norwee was widely townread.
Yet the total players townreading Norwee was five. No more.

If Norwee was killed for being townread, the implication is the players insisting Norwee was widely townread, contain the players who submitted the kill.

[Ranger]

So, Ranger, I am asking you to please claim?

Getting to that.

I value providing what's likely final thoughts over providing a claim which won't sway the players already voting me.