Open 878: Scarfolk Council | The End

[Cephrir]

even if before wasn't doing it for you i'm currently bleeding green all over the nice carpeting. it's pretty gross honestly someone should clean it up

[skitter30]

ok why do you think i should be townreading you here
(and is this like me particularly or that objectively you think you're townie)

[Cephrir]

objectively and i think you're good enough to see it

i am not going to quote posts to back that up i am simply feeling a righteous indignation that i can't feel as scum

[Cephrir]

it sucks that i'm probably going to have to get your partners first

[skitter30]

like i don't really think you're objectively townie here, and i feel like i'm approaching this in good faith, so i'm not really sure why the conclusion is: i'm trying to scumread you and the fact that i don't townread you means that i'm scum

when i don't think you're objectively town
(like if i took a poll rn i don't think the majority of the game would be calling you that)

pedit ok if you're just going to devolve to that idk how you want me to get to a townread here
i don't have a ton of experience with you
it's not like i have a history of meta-reading you correctly
i don't think you've done an abundance of townie things thus far
i'm trying to have a dialogue here and am willing to talk to you abt it

if your conclusion is just: well i just should be townreading you

like idk why you think objectively i should be townreading you in particular, and you aren't really willing to talk to me abt this either, so idk what you want me to do here

[skitter30]

i think you're usually good at mafia and the fact you can't find me as town right now makes me think that you are scum, regardless of what words you want to attach to that. i just don't buy that that is where town you wants to vote right now end of sentence

like i don't think you have any reason / history / anything to actually think this

you're not bleeding green rn (no matter how much you'd like to say that)

[Cephrir]

after reviewing a recent csf scum game to see if my paradigm for reading her is still valid, it wasn't as valid as i thought, but i still see differences between that and this. still townreading, not as strong

[Cephrir]

i think you're usually good at mafia and the fact you can't find me as town right now makes me think that you are scum, regardless of what words you want to attach to that. i just don't buy that that is where town you wants to vote right now end of sentence

like i don't think you have any reason / history / anything to actually think this

you're not bleeding green rn (no matter how much you'd like to say that)

i've only played with you a few times but you've been a strong town presence in those games and other players' respect towards you clearly demonstrated that this impression was typical. as a result i respect your abilities. sorry bout it

[skitter30]

ok that's a different point than being able to townread you, which is what you were saying before

[skitter30]

and i'm allowed to have a slow day /shrug

[Cephrir]

yeah this is absolutely what a town cephrir meltdown looks like, i do get to be the authority on this

[Cephrir]

ok that's a different point than being able to townread you, which is what you were saying before

i think im objectively town right now and because i think you are a good player im less willing to excuse it than i might be otherwise

maybe that was unclear, i didnt think it was

[skitter30]

ok fair enuf i misunderstood your point
i don't think you are and you telling me you are isn't going to change my mind, sorry

if other people want to back that up i'm more likely to believe it

[Cephrir]

i think andante subbing out is a towntell - shows she was likely genuinely frustrated with us

[Cephrir]

you telling me you are isn't going to change my mind

my iso should have already done that. shrug emoji

[skitter30]

i may or may not have had thoughts abt that but we're not supposed to talk abt rep-outs now i believe so kinda glossed over that

pedit ok i like the vote for now then

[sheepsaysmeep]

i may or may not have had thoughts abt that but we're not supposed to talk abt rep-outs now i believe so kinda glossed over that

oh did they actually make that change

[Cephrir]

before doing this iso my thoughts were "i don't have strong feelings about this player, but i've seen a lot of scumreads on her - so it's weird that no one is doing much about it"

I'm not willing to townlean anyone on the basis of "has reads" but I guess I won't complain about it too much.

this stuff felt slightly wolf to me at surface level.

"I won't complain about it too much" just feels like a wolf perspective in a way that I could see alianna slipping up. either about some correct townreads or wanting to get townread herself for an active start

the idea of town complaining about some page 2 reads just doesnt make sense to me, even if u disagree with the reads.

what I would expect town to do is like, evaluate implosion's alignment based on that

, which doesn't happen;

this post also assumes implosion town in a +0.05% wolf way

idk ive been back and forth on this

How am I supposed to evaluate someone's alignment off "X and Y are towny" with no reasoning? There really wasn't much to sort in the post. Even though I had a guess about the reasoning, I didn't find it AI. I just disagreed with it.

How does it do that?

i think the pink response is scum indicative. it shows an overconcern with her own self perception to even bother with - "0.05% scum" means it's not a strong point and probably can't even be explained - just let this go unless your goal is discrediting

fair I gues. Why are you still voting Doctor Drew?

Sorry, got distracted by something IRL. I just forgot to take off my RVS.

UNVOTE:

i don't think i need to explain why i think this is scummy

You know what, sure. I see what you mean.

VOTE: GuerillaWoo

looking for someone who's *actually* hiding behind others' reasoning?

Reads are approximately this. They're relative to a scale, not to each other, and I went the other way around the colour wheel because (a) it's prettier and (b) my scumleans are usually orange. You can ask about my reasoning, but the response is going to be either "idk vibes lol" or "I already talked about that one."

{

Alianna

} - I townread Alianna.
{

Andante

}
{

Aisa, Invisibility, Cat Scratch Fever

}
{

sheepsaysmeep

}
{

Doctor Drew, implosion

}
{

Dunnstral, Cephrir, Menalque, skitter30

} - the null line
{

GuerillaWoo

}

So we have a problem. One person is sus and there's 2-4 bad guys in the game.

Kind of makes me think there's scum in the quiet people.
Or my scumdar's just broken.
Still like the Woo wagon for now, just think the null tier is worth looking into.

as has been pointed out by dunnstral this shows a lack of paranoia

So we have a problem. One person is sus and there's 2-4 bad guys in the game.

If you're town your problem is that you will townread everyone for light banter and giving the bare minimum of content. You are not being skeptical enough.

Could be. I'll consider that.

i don't see any evidence of this being considered

VOTE: Enchant

Yeet. This may be all the content I can muster today, but yeet.

looking for someone who's *actually* hiding behind others' reasoning?

And seconded about the pushback on implo, forgot about that.

looking for someone who's *actually* hiding behind others' reasoning?

[Cephrir]

i may or may not have had thoughts abt that but we're not supposed to talk abt rep-outs now i believe so kinda glossed over that

pedit ok i like the vote for now then

my understanding was that you're not supposed to talk about them before they happen but they're fair game to discuss after, i apologize if that's me misunderstanding the rules

[skitter30]

i may or may not have had thoughts abt that but we're not supposed to talk abt rep-outs now i believe so kinda glossed over that

oh did they actually make that change

like three years ago i thought
or maybe i made that up

[implosion]

I think one thing I’m curious about,

@implosion

, is why you decided to make your case 24 hours after Enchant subbed in. Did you ever think about waiting a bit longer to see if Enchant would do something before accusing him? How certain were you that he was going to flip scum?

The thought didn't cross my mind. I had a pre-existing strong scumread on the slot and the rep-in gave no reads in 24 hours. Of course I was going to tunnel the slot and cement my read. I was about as certain as I can be in a scumread which, to be fair, I'm not really all that good at this game. But it's pretty rare for me to have that level of confidence on day 1. I don't think giving Enchant more than 24 hours would have magically changed anything in any meaningful way. Them being cased by me was in no way stopping them from giving any actual content.

@skitter's post to me, I don't really have any comment. That way of looking at the wagon is sensible enough. I don't think I'm like interested at all in pushing skitter today at this point.

@skitter vs ceph: I agree with skitter that Ceph calling her push a reach is... well, not great. I think her explanation of "this is how I'd expect scum to join this wagon" is eminently a sensible explanation even if Ceph is town. Like, she's not saying that town can't do those things, she's saying that the combination of all of them is what she thinks scum would look like. Ceph's response to this is essentially "no, I had reasons to interact with the wagon in all those ways" and like, sure, but there being explanatory reasons that you can give doesn't invalidate the point.

I think it's reasonable for him to be annoyed (as he viscerally seems to be) over the "real conviction" argument. It'd be a bit weird if he wasn't. If he's scum I'd expect him to do it anyway because he'd probably feel caught-for-the-wrong-reasons.

The point about an emotional component is interesting because my immediate thought on that was that you don't need an emotional component to push someone. I was definitely fairly emotional in my push on the slot, though I don't know how strongly it comes through in my posting because of my playstyle. I think it does sort of come through in Ceph's posts to a minor degree but if Ceph is town then Ceph is telling the truth about being super disengaged yesterday and if that's the case then it'd make sense for his posts on the wagon to not really have an invested emotional component.

(Still have more to comment on but posting now since discussion is active)

[skitter30]

maybe i'm wrong but i thought the whole topic of rep-outs was not allowed once they've happened

[Cephrir]

do not tell other players to replace out. Do not publicly consider or publicly announce a choice to replace out.

i think it's just this

[skitter30]

The point about an emotional component is interesting because my immediate thought on that was that you don't need an emotional component to push someone.

i don't think you need that either, but he said he had 'conviction' and in my mind that translated to an emotional component, so my thought process was: well, you're saying you had conviction (i.e. had this emotional component), but, like where is that

once he said his definition of conviction i reassessed that

[skitter30]

i could have sworn talking abt replacements after the fact wasn't allowed either but can't find that rule so eh