Micro 1083: Garlic Bread Heist! (Game Over)

[hellbooks]

Has anyone yet called sheep "a wolf in sheep's clothing" as a rhetorical device

[Thestatusquo]

wolves dont say meep

[hellbooks]

never say meep

[Alisae]

meep!

[tris]

Has anyone yet called sheep "a wolf in sheep's clothing" as a rhetorical device

are you thinking about that because he's your partner?

[hellbooks]

i think we've all established that as fact already so not rly sure why you're asking about it like you don't know? kinda sus?

[Alisae]

her sheep in crime

[Garlic Bread]

hellbooks dropping a banana bread is unfortunately NAI. feel like she's one of the only people here that would read all the drivel without having a red role. i thought GB would probably see it too actually but it doesnt seem like they did. also NAI. thank you for participating in mafiascum's shittiest honeypot.

im literally the post right after it

[Thestatusquo]

I feel like skygazer is trying to emulate hellbooks posting style a bit and I'm not really sure what that means.

[hellbooks]

Is this emulatable

[Thestatusquo]

you tell me. am I crazy for seeing it?

[hellbooks]

Banana bread

It just means that my vortex of failposting is so potent that ive got even the serious players sending memes in my replies (yes shea, i know this framing is disingenuous, garlic bread has in fact been gimmicking and joking around)

[tris]

I feel like hellbooks is trying to emulate skygazers posting style a bit and I'm not really sure what that means.

[Thestatusquo]

I actually kind of didnt mean that as a shit post either.

It kind of feels like they're trying to fit in by blending in with the way in which you're engaging with the thread.

[Garlic Bread]

Is this emulatable

yeah they got it on retroarch, they got all the emulators

[sheepsaysmeep]

I have reached page 20 in my more focused read thru

quickly off the top of my head:

sheepsaysmeep
tris - tris is so pure man. I like the things she is poking at/engaging with she feels independent
Garlic Bread - I think this is town. I think he is playing in a way that is just he genuinely believes his reads; no other reason to play like this. if mafia no reason to repeat the same things many times and press people this way; breaking the gimmick in some conversations feels genuine


VP Baltar - I feel worse on re-read but I still think his sequence of 3 questions over an hour and legit diving into meta and making a reasonable conclusion about me is p + village lol
Thestatusquo - I am a little simplistically pocketed by his progression on me lol. I was feel like he could've naturally pummeled me but instead he expressed a townlean on me that makes sense to me like wow thanks bro u didnt have to. +, here and there his thoughts vibe with mien a little

Alisae - no clue

hellbooks - I feel generally like theyre bit too explaining-themselves-focused (maybe this is a playstyle thing). I find when they express reads it's a bit underwhelming, like an offhand list of sussy names. the main thing is that their scumreads feel super oddly anti-consensus, but at the same time un-noticeable, and that bugs me. I think if they were actually a wolf who thought like tris was top wolf or stuff they would be more loud/active about it in some way. I havent reached the main explaining-themself post that's been quoted multiple times yet in my catch-up
xofelf - idk but a lower idk than alisae
Skygazer - I feel they are trying to get into the game sometimes and struggling and it's +wolf a bit by now

idk im kinda underwhelmed I dont feel good after the couple townreads

[sheepsaysmeep]

I saw you say like,

-you meta dived him and then changed from town to scum
-your interaction with him was good
-as opposed to me, his stuff is not unsubstantiated nonsense

I feel like youre still barely breaching like 5% depth unless I missed something but I genuinely looked

and ur conclusion? Lmao

Yeah I don't have him as hard town as I do tris lmao, but it's plenty to give a pass for on d1 and realistically believe he will trend as town as the game goes on.

idk it's felt weird cuz like

I honestly feel like the vibes from shea have been meh this game, respectfully

like my gut has felt like he's a wolf and there has been nothing thats made me go like oh damn that was towny

and in contrast your read on him exudes a weird confidence. like I know sometimes you say "I admit he's a good wolf" but the vibes on the read are a bit much, declaring towncores with him and repeating him as fairly strong town and stuff. and it feels either a bit pockety or like forcing ur notion "sheep is especially wolf because everyone else has been so villagery"

Why should I have found you towny?
Genuinely curious - I personally find that from my own POV as town the aspects that are towny from me are obvious but know to temper my expectations of others finding it


I personally think your progression comes off as fake and hamfisted- including this latest shade at me uses reasoning I associate with mafia using something they *think* looks scummy to people to convince them when it really isn't. Mr acknowledging shea is a good mafia while feeling confident I think he is playing town are not incompatible thoughts. Being a good mafia is not about straight up copying your towngame, it's about manipulating people into not killing you long enough.

I think all you have done thus far, including this, is still squarely in what I know you are capable as scum. The glaring errors of disgenuine reasoning among your attempts to look towny is what I'm pointing at here.

to address the question here, I dont actually think ive exited wolfrange lol, I think ur scumread on me is valid and makes sense

I wrote more but lost my post and give up lol

I mean like overall I think my vibe would be more self-conscious as wolf and ive had a lower volume and stuff, but that's just my word for it

cant point to any posts that are unfakeable, maybe 346 is p good on the fly
my last list is p good but again theres no logic there it's self-meta

[sheepsaysmeep]

for me it's more that u seem to use POE-y stuff as a reason to push me, confidently, that makes me paranoid abt u sometimes. or it's town but I just think it's poor

it's like, "why has sheep been villagery?" is the thing you've said the most to try to get people onto me

why has sky been villagery? why has tris been villagery? why shea? you dont rly talk about it and like self-proclaim that your towncore is a little forced

youre like, applying "it's hard to look anywhere else" to REINforce your scumread on me in a way I dont think is valid, which is basically the pre-flip convo that's been had

[Skygazer]

Skygazer - I feel they are trying to get into the game sometimes and struggling and it's +wolf a bit by now

This is a big fat L take that I'm not sure if you actually believe considering you just saw me zero post for an entire day one and claim it was because I was locked in a burger king as town

[VP Baltar]

I think there are a few main things that keep bugging me about Alisae:

Unexplained reads, even when asked for a little more depth

Let's go back to when she votes me first.

The fact you are trying to build a multi-point case on page six is pretty absurd on its face though. I find it hard to believe you're taking the game that seriously at this point.

VOTE: VP

It's a naked vote that obviously leaves a lot of room for interpretation. Does she think GB's case at that point was good? Does she think I'm being too critical? Is this a chainsaw? I have no idea, but also at the time I'm kind of like "whatever, maybe she vibing"

The very next thing we get from Alisae is the xof townread...again for thin reasoning.

oh also xof unvote could be townie so for now they are my strongest tr
it's not that strong but it is what it is

You'll remember I asked xof about this because it definitely feels pockety to me personally. Xof didn't seem to think so and said they have played together a lot, so I'm taking that under advisement. But what I think bugs me here is that this is the start of a pattern of reads that feel a little pulled out of a hat and designed to keep Alisae from doing work in the game more than they are actual sorting.

I brought this up around her shea play as well. She goes back and forth on calling him town and scum several times (but mostly town! don't want to ruffle feathers) with no explanation, even when I inquired more directly. You'll recall, she said she voted him for taking a "do nothing" strategy, which sounds like projection to me. Keep in mind, sheep-VP-shea are the only three names I've seen her throw out in an apparently serious way. It's all a bit flimsy and falls over with even the slightest closer inspection.

Now, let's be fair here, some of this this is very early game. But my issue real issue is that this has persisted through page 30 whatever now. I was willing to give it a pass early on. People need to find their feet in the early game. But if your naked vote on page 2 or whatever is still your top scum read after 30 pages and that's almost never changed? BEEEEP BOOOOPP SCUM LOCK ALERT BEEEP BOOOP

I can't tell you how many times I've played scum where I lock onto an early game read, forget I'm really there and then dozens of pages pass and I'm like "LOL, I'm still voting my RVS person, better make up some reason why that is."

Alisae occassionally takes pot shots at me that don't even make sense, and I think that's actually her trying to justfiy her vote being there. I'll touch on this as my third point in a minute.

Social positioning away from a D1 lim

As I mentioned above, I thought the xof read felt a little pockety, which is why I was asking xof a bit about it. Willing to admit my instincts differ from xof's there, but whatever.

I don't think I need to have a good read on users Tris + Skygazer + Hellbooks
I imagine those 3 will probably towntell or wolftell eventually.
User Alisae will find it

This also struck me as pockety. Or at the very least, attempting to get a third of the users to not look at her until later in the game. Again, it's a bit cynical of a read on my part, I'll admit, but it's actually kind of a smart wolf play if that's what it is in the sense that 1) you are reducing expectations on who you will provide opinions on D1 and 2) maybe those people reciprocate and don't take a hard look at you either D1. That essentially guarantees an elimination on you is tough if not impossible. A smart social play imo in an alisae!scum world. (it's probably also no surprise she ends up at town reads on all three here I think)

I think she's been schmoozing tris a bit since then, and largely ignoring the other two except for a very brief vote on hellbrooks when momentum was swinging that way.

More broadly, this feeds back into point 1 about how static her reads have been. Unless she has a HIGH LEVEL of confidence the solve is VP + sheep, i don't see how anyone can look at her play to this point and feel like she's actually trying to sort people.

Pot shots as justification for static reads

I mentioned above that Ali is trying to score cheap points with the audience rather than scum hunt, and I think this is peppered throughout her ISO. An example is when she tried to call me out for not having a reads list. I had literally just said I didn't have one. Here is the exchange:

Ok, if meta isn't really your thing, that makes sense.

Who is aligned with the mafia VP Baller

Ur mom

I don't know yet. I'll be sure to tell you first when I do though

my mum is aligned with the mafia so you must be aligned with the village to have such an accurate read on my mum

Did you not read this exact exchange I just had with garlic bread?

I don't think I care about it

I don't think I care about it

Why did you ask me for scum reads then?

Because I wanted to know who u thought was mafia

But I just said like a few pages ago that I had no clue at this point. Did you not read that part?

Ig I didn’t see it!

I think it's easy to see she didn't actually even care about the answer to the question. There's no deeper reason to why she asked me what my reads were than "I wanted to see". And when I say I don't have one, she just backs away from the convo. I think the intent here was to paint me as someone who isn't playing the game, and when I called her out for actually being the person who isn't paying attention to the game, she just disengages with the convo. This is what I mean by pot shots.

Here is another one (along with another "D1 pass" which is the social positioning I was talking about)

I want to give shea a d1 pass.

@Skygazer + Shea

- does VP Baller feel like they actually do care about trying to figure out alignments? I want to say yes but last time I played w/ them I TR'd them when they were wolf.

Like, I think it's reasonable to poke at me for sure. But if the criticism is "he's not trying to figure out alignments"...uh ok. I think my signal to noise ratio is pretty decent (except for when I felt like shit posting yesterday bc I was in a silly mood). This is such a blanket criticism that's detached from reality if you are even looking for two mins at my ISO. It's shade and it's trying to loop in supporting voice on a blanket shade comment. thx I hate it.

There are a million examples of this, from dropping my name repeatedly in quiet ways that seem intent on keeping me in the ether of discussion to stuff like this:

I also think they’ve pushed me in ways wolves probably would so there’s that too

which sounds neat...until you even spend 1 second thinking about what it actually means.

I've pushed her in wolfy ways? What does that mean? I didn't start pushing her until recently. She has incredibly static reads and is trying to schmooze people, all of which has been bugging me, but I also didn't want to launch into a whole thing if this is her town meta (which I don't think it is).

Last night she beetlejuiced in here when I called for a flash wagon on her. I think she can see I'm starting to feel better about this read being correct and that I'm going to push it in a more serious way, and that's bugging her. that's when she made they "wolfy reasons" comment without even hearing my reasons in an explained way. It's shade all the way down.



If you want a hot take, i think there's a non-zero chance that shea or Garlic Bread are her partner.

THE END

[VP Baltar]

also, vote alisae so I don't have to start screaming at people.

[Skygazer]

tldr

[Skygazer]

(will read later though)

[Skygazer]

Skygazer - I feel they are trying to get into the game sometimes and struggling and it's +wolf a bit by now

This is a big fat L take that I'm not sure if you actually believe considering you just saw me zero post for an entire day one and claim it was because I was locked in a burger king as town

in essence: i don't see how you could arrive at me struggling to get into a game being AI when you just saw me struggle to get into a game.

[VP Baltar]

tldr

Fair. I hate making walls like that, but felt like I'm taking silly pills that no one but me sees this