In post 1208, implosion wrote:
I kind of see why Menalque immediately responds that way to fire's 1203 beyond just the post calling Menalque out. It feels like a very overwrought thought process. Like this assertion that Menalque must have had the whole spiel planned out from before the woo vote as town when like, part of what he was doing was asking questions.
like fire, you're saying "I don't find his reads progression believable, it doesn't seem like he genuinely had this planned since before the woo vote and all he does is ask a bunch of questions then give this big reveal" and like. yeah... the point of questions is to change your mind? I think at least part of this is me misinterpreting something but this whole post from fire just feels like either scum having a conclusion that they think they can justify and wanting to justify it, or possibly town who got a gut scumread on Menalque from reading and is now trying to back-justify why that scumread makes sense in the context of his progression without having really thought much about it before typing the words out because the read actually came from gut. And it doesn't sound like that's what fire
thinks
the read is. This probably doesn't make any sense though so alas
this seems to ignore menalque's multiple posts about having something cooking? or am i misunderstanding?
Eh I kind of got rambly in the post. Part of the point I was trying to make is Menalque talked about something cooking but also that doesn't mean that that thing that was cooking was some fixed immovable position, it could have changed in response to answers from questions
Aureal wrote: I dislike the replacements therefore scummy idea that's getting pushed.
I don't *think* anyone was actually pushing that idea? I'm certainly not.
I don't think fire is
obvscum
here and I won't be surprised if he flips town but I am definitely on board with flipping him.
No? Maybe I've misinterpreted you agreeing with Cephrir, who definitely was trying to add fuel to the wagon because of the replacement. I guess you did say earlier that you don't like to ascribe meaning to replacements, which is more aligned with my thinking, so I'm confused why you started answering for Cephrir about the subject.
I answered that question (not for him) because I figured my answer would be sufficient to dispel your confusion over it because I thought it was a fairly easy question to answer and that Ceph's answer was clear to me since I had roughly the same point of view.
I am a little curious about fire's list of leading voices too, I don't think I'm
exactly
a leading voice today though I definitely was yesterday. Also curious what specifically about the gamestate makes fire think that someone in the driver's seat is likely scum - just because the most likely lim today is a mislim from fire's pov?
In post 1301, implosion wrote:
I am a little curious about fire's list of leading voices too, I don't think I'm
exactly
a leading voice today though I definitely was yesterday. Also curious what specifically about the gamestate makes fire think that someone in the driver's seat is likely scum - just because the most likely lim today is a mislim from fire's pov?
i did read the game all at once in a few hours and from that perspective those are the three names i felt were most driving the game and were leading voices and posting content that advanced the game
i think its a combination of things. one, yes, i think the insistence on my lim being the path for today is not entirely driven by town
another is i guess just a gamestate vibes read. im not sure how to quantify it but a thought that i kept having while reading is that it felt like a hard game. usually that means that someone is miscleared or scum are in control. i don't really think anyone is cleared right now so it's more likely to be the latter
another is that the townreads i feel best about are mostly people who aren't really driving things, aside from maybe aisa. if those reads are correct, then there almost has to be one of those leaders as scum just due to number of slots remaining
i dunno i feel like if skitter and implo and aisa are all town then y'all are probably fine and will get there eventually, so maybe it's also a "what scenarios cause us to lose here" mindset that i do sometimes fall into
but also it doesn't currently feel like the game is on a trajectory towards "getting there" so that makes me think that isn't the case
i think skitter limiting herself to looking for scum in a group of 4 is really unlike how she engages with the game as town
it's something that i could see her doing, but i think even when she does she doesn't just push for the lim she wants, she still is open and trying to solve the game as a whole and sort what's happening around her
i don't really get the feeling that she's doing that here. her focus pool is my slot, ceph, implosion, and sheep. since she made the post laying out that group (960), here's what her posts have been about:
Spoiler: skitter pos summaries
- ceph
- sadness about replacements
- ceph
- ceph
- ceph
- ceph
- ceph
- ceph
- ceph
- ceph
- ceph
- ceph
- andante slot
- replace out rules discussion
- replace out rules discussion
- ceph (talking to implosion)
- replace out rules discussion
- would wagon alianna or ceph (talking to implosion)
- ceph and dunn (response to implosion)
- would wagon alianna or ceph
- ceph
- ceph
- her focus pool (talking to ceph)
- her focus pool
- her focus pool
- her focus pool
- her focus pool
- sheep
- her focus pool
- her focus pool (talking to implosion now!)
- aureal
- aureal (response to aisa)
- ceph and sheep (talking to mena)
- sheep (talking to mena)
- focus pool and sheep (talking to implosion)
- comment on thread state being dead
- dunn and aisa
- sheep
- meg/andante slot and alianna/delta/me slot
- meg slot
- me
- replacements
- me
- me
- me
- andante (answering my question)
- egix
- mena and me (talking to me)
- voting me
- ceph and herself (talking to egix)
- mena
- vc and meg slot
- herself (talking to me)
- mena (taking to ceph)
- herself (talking to me)
- me
ok so sure, of the 50 posts since then that are about people in the game, 36 of them are about her focus pool. there's still 14 that aren't, right?
let's look at them!
Spoiler: skitter posts
In post 990, skitter30 wrote:
i may or may not have had thoughts abt that but we're not supposed to talk abt rep-outs now i believe so kinda glossed over that
pedit ok i like the vote for now then
In post 1005, skitter30 wrote:
eh i dont' really townread it
i'm not sure it's scummy but like i don't think his reaction is townie either
In post 1133, skitter30 wrote:
Also like kinda want meg to confirm that her slot did indeed taks an action last night ...
In post 1160, skitter30 wrote:
It's a lot easier for me to get to the right read on her if i know her alignment, i don't think it's so easy for me to actually read her
- I can't remember why I had implo that high, he should be more like at the low end of the town pile (just vibes)
- I should have included Andante here, but simply presumed she would be self-resolving due to the PR claim
- Adding Ceph to this because I think he looked townier than skitter in the interactions they had earlier this Day
- fire is townier than Alianna was. I don't wanna go as far as saying "ooh I townread this slot now!" but I did not want there to be a hammer yet.
- I kinda think that Aureal's slot is just obv town at this point, her posting is even better than GWoo's was.
So, seems like that leaves me with Dunn, Mena, or skitter as my vote.
I don't have a case ready yet but I'll
VOTE: skitter
as she's the one I have the worst vibes from atm. (I skimmed her iso earlier so I should be able to elaborate when I have more time)
I would like to hear more abt why you think ceph was townier than me in our argument + more abt why you're voting me
In post 1254, skitter30 wrote:
I'll just say that in real-time it certainly felt like mena cared abt people's answers to those questions
I think mena's response was super thorough + townie
In post 1276, Cephrir wrote:
i read most of those posts. someone else can just tell me if mena's huge wall was a good post i guess, i don't plan on reading it
It was
the only ones that i think could qualify as trying to sort or probe anyone are the two directed towards egix. two are talking about mena's towniness. three are talking about how she wants to hear from meg/andante slot. the others are (extremely brief) responses to other's questions, or one line statements of reads on people
i know going through all this is kind of excessive but im bored and i wanted to see if i was right that her focus has been extremely narrow, and i think it has. this is not at all what im used to seeing from town skitter. i think one of the hallmarks of her play is the way that she's always observant and questioning things that stand out to her, checking assumptions, and pushing things forward towards a place where she can see the game more clearly and solve it. she enjoys the puzzle of solving games
here that doesn't look to me like that's her goal. she's set up a group to look at and push within, and then has barely even touched anyone outside of it ever since. her engagement whenever questioned is limited, giving one line summaries of reads and mostly keeping herself closed off
another thing that is heavily lacking here that i think is usually present in her town game is that i don't see her finding town and working with them anywhere, or even attempting to. i don't think i would expect her to spend a significant amount of her time doing that as town, but she usually has at least some
if you want a comparison point, here is a recently finished game that is playing heavily in my memory, although ive played quite a few games with skitter and i think im pretty familiar with her style: viewtopic.php?t=90886&user_select%5B%5D=29653
in that i think the difference is super clear just from a glance. she's a lot more investigative, pushing in several directions, trying to solve the whole game, and much more willing to engage when asked for explanations or reasonings behind reads. she's just a shining beacon of towniness, especially once it gets into the midgame. here it feels like she's trying to mostly keep her head down and stay in her lane, despite being one of the top posters
her indignation at me saying that she was in the driver's seat of the game was actually what prompted me to look into this further
bc i think she's right that even if she is one of the leading voices, she isn't really driving the game. and i think that kind of, letting the game drive itself as long as she's sure to nudge it in the right direction, is a lot more suspicious to me
Incidentally I think “get there eventually” is a pretty dangerous notion here. All it takes is mislim today + extra kill on town tonight + 3 person scumteam and we’re in MELO tomorrow. I should probably really want to get a scum today
'skitter is fucking terrifying' ~ town-bork about scum-me
'Skitter [was] terrifying to play against ngl' ~ scum-bork about town-me
'Going into lylo against scum!skit unprepared is like having someone force feed you dull razor blades. It's painful, and once it starts, you're pretty much dead' ~ NMSA
'Skitter you're a spirit animal's spirit animal' ~ slaxx
In post 1227, Aureal wrote:
But all that really came through by morning was something about
Egix following people
and being suspicious by covering the peephole in the door so nobody could see who was sneaking around outside.
Er what? I thought other people were following me...
In post 1250, skitter30 wrote:
I would like to hear more abt why you think ceph was townier than me in our argument + more abt why you're voting me
I'll cover this in a separate post.
In post 1274, Aisa wrote:
I too fundamentally don't know what Egix is capable of as scum or even what kind of player he is
- Not a lot, lol
- I think I've usually been described as having a "minimalistic" playstyle, because I don't usually post all that much. You know those kinds of people who don't usually talk a lot unless it's about very specific things and then they go off on all sorts of tangents? Yeah, I think I'm one of those.
In post 1282, Aisa wrote:
I also kinda see a specific world where if you + Egix were scum together, the behaviours of you two towards each other would make sense
Except for me voting the fire slot as soon as I was caught up, fwiw
In post 1283, Aisa wrote:
Actually lemme VOTE: Aureal real quick because rn I kinda would want to flip this slot over Dunn (although I'm also still potentially up for flipping fire)
We are not doing this.
In post 1305, fireisredsir wrote:
another thing that is heavily lacking here that i think is usually present in her town game is that i don't see her finding town and working with them anywhere, or even attempting to. i don't think i would expect her to spend a significant amount of her time doing that as town, but she usually has at least some
(snip)
in that i think the difference is super clear just from a glance. she's a lot more investigative, pushing in several directions, trying to solve the whole game, and much more willing to engage when asked for explanations or reasonings behind reads. she's just a shining beacon of towniness, especially once it gets into the midgame. here it feels like she's trying to mostly keep her head down and stay in her lane, despite being one of the top posters
Like yeah, I was feeling tempted yesterday to say "this doesn't feel like town!skitter" until I realised it wouldn't make much sense coming from me because I don't think I've even played a game with her since 2019 lol.
In post 942, skitter30 wrote:
I feel like he was one of the sketchier votes on wagon + don't have any sort of read there
I... feel like you didn't read my posts then?
VOTE: skitter?
I thought this was NAGL for skitt.
961 - leaves out some relevant posts, as was pointed out by Ceph in 963 - 706, for example, couldn't have just been missed by skitt because it was right before two posts that she did quote, so it looks like she conveniently left out stuff that didn't serve to prove her point rather than giving a fair assessment.
In post 974, Cephrir wrote:
i think you're usually good at mafia and the fact you can't find me as town right now makes me think that you are scum, regardless of what words you want to attach to that. i just don't buy that that is where town you wants to vote right now end of sentence
I felt like this was a point in Ceph's favour.
In post 977, Cephrir wrote:
objectively and i think you're good enough to see it
i am not going to quote posts to back that up i am simply feeling a righteous indignation that i can't feel as scum
Tbf I can't vouch for the self-meta argument (I don't think I've ever played a game with Ceph before) but I definitely feel a similar way when I get wrongly scumread in games.
In post 974, Cephrir wrote:
i think you're usually good at mafia and the fact you can't find me as town right now makes me think that you are scum, regardless of what words you want to attach to that. i just don't buy that that is where town you wants to vote right now end of sentence
like i don't think you have any reason / history / anything to actually think this
you're not bleeding green rn (no matter how much you'd like to say that)
This links back to the previous two quotes - I can buy that even if skitt+Ceph haven't played together all that much (I don't know if they have or not, I'm just saying, even if),
a town (or at least, myself in that position) can still feel like they are being scumread by someone who is acting out of character.
In post 983, skitter30 wrote:
ok that's a different point than being able to townread you, which is what you were saying before
This looked to me like trying to deflect/move the goalposts - being a strong town presence and having good reads are not entirely mutually exclusive, as a higher level of involvement usually leads to better reads.
In post 315, Alianna wrote:
Reads are approximately this. They're relative to a scale, not to each other, and I went the other way around the colour wheel because (a) it's prettier and (b) my scumleans are usually orange. You can ask about my reasoning, but the response is going to be either "idk vibes lol" or "I already talked about that one."
{
Alianna
} - I townread Alianna.
{
Andante
}
{
Aisa, Invisibility, Cat Scratch Fever
}
{
sheepsaysmeep
}
{
Doctor Drew, implosion
}
{
Dunnstral, Cephrir, Menalque, skitter30
} - the null line
{
GuerillaWoo
}
So we have a problem. One person is sus and there's 2-4 bad guys in the game.
Kind of makes me think there's scum in the quiet people.
Or my scumdar's just broken.
Still like the Woo wagon for now, just think the null tier is worth looking into.
This is certainly an Interesting readslist
This post is low in value - at worst, it's shading.
In post 410, Aisa wrote:
Baah I think this is one of those votes where I start typing up some thoughts to justify it and realise I have no real justification -_-
Let's see if this is better VOTE: skitter30
?
I'm sorry I should probably stop voting before explaining haha
Anyway, I'd like you to scumcase Andante for me if that's ok. I understand that someone having different reads from me doesn't mean they're scum but I'd like to explore the idea that in this specific case, it means that, uh, you're scum
1. Why do you think could be scum for having this read?
2. Andante came into thia game with a variety of takes that felt fairly outlandish to me: they were v disjointed, strange takes that by themselves didnt make sense, but also didnt make sense as a cohesive unit
3. For example, starting the game sk hunting is just weird and i think it's a weird place for town to start
4. The whole proclaiming herself to be obvtown ans finding people scummy for not seeing it was also kinda scummy
Point #4 isn't a scummy thing imo - I'd even argue it's towny (see my note on 980 for something similar)
In post 840, skitter30 wrote:
I think we should just be flipping enchant here
Mena's
trajectory
today is ???? bordering on scummy
not this old chestnut lol. If only I had a quid for every time a scum tried to frame someone by pointing out their (
egix can you talk a little about why you feel strongly on your townread on the aureal/guerilla slot? ik you called the slot obvtown but i don't think many others see it that way (maybe mena?) so im curious about your reasoning
In post 1274, Aisa wrote:
I too fundamentally don't know what Egix is capable of as scum or even what kind of player he is
- Not a lot, lol
- I think I've usually been described as having a "minimalistic" playstyle, because I don't usually post all that much. You know those kinds of people who don't usually talk a lot unless it's about very specific things and then they go off on all sorts of tangents? Yeah, I think I'm one of those.
In post 1282, Aisa wrote:
I also kinda see a specific world where if you + Egix were scum together, the behaviours of you two towards each other would make sense
Except for me voting the fire slot as soon as I was caught up, fwiw
You have such trustworthy vibes that I'm considering believing your self meta, lol
I think you voting the fire slot as soon as you were caught up is a relevant point I had forgotten about
In post 1283, Aisa wrote:
Actually lemme VOTE: Aureal real quick because rn I kinda would want to flip this slot over Dunn (although I'm also still potentially up for flipping fire)
We are not doing this.
Oops! You vetoed me. Damn. What am I gonna write about now?
In post 1315, fireisredsir wrote:
egix can you talk a little about why you feel strongly on your townread on the aureal/guerilla slot? ik you called the slot obvtown but i don't think many others see it that way (maybe mena?) so im curious about your reasoning
I don't really know how to explain it, it's just a feels thing really
In post 1309, Aisa wrote:
Incidentally I think “get there eventually” is a pretty dangerous notion here. All it takes is mislim today + extra kill on town tonight + 3 person scumteam and we’re in MELO tomorrow. I should probably really want to get a scum today
I was about to be like bruh I still find aisa so scummy but this is a really village post it made me feel something
![:]](./images/smilies/icon_smiling.png "Cheerful Smile"){kind=icon}
