nah i think u have actually substantiated what you have said thats the difference, theres like obviously the link to sheep's wall that i saw that shea *did* townread supposedly off of, but its a very fake read to say that automatically flip to say "town pushes mafia only" essentially and idt that whole progression was natural in retrospect bc we still dont even know exactly what about sheep made him see the slot as town
In post 1222, Thestatusquo wrote:
I've elaborated plenty. Do not mistake my exhaustion from having to deal with your constant thread presence for not having a good argument. I've made my arguments very clearly no matter how many times you keep saying the opposite with no explanation.
The cool thing about mafia is there's other people in the thread and I don't have to convince the obvious bad faith person, but everyone else.
well weird thing is everyone else agrees with me and is working from the same PoV as me weirdly enough
still on the fence about sheep but their posting after the E1 seemed town. Shea saying they probably flip green resonated, instinctually it felt like a green flip moment to me i guess too. enough to make me wanna unvote.
i feel like sheep has come across as opportunistic in terms of reads sometimes but i think my reads are kind of in the same boat and they could be a lost townie.
if i were to go on meta i'd actually kinda wanna vote them here because in schadd's game scum-sheep would scramble for the weaker town players when they got wagoned and i feel like their reads and votes here are kinda like that. not sure if that's a pattern to hold weight in though.
In post 1229, Skygazer wrote:
still on the fence about sheep but their posting after the E1 seemed town. Shea saying they probably flip green resonated, instinctually it felt like a green flip moment to me i guess too. enough to make me wanna unvote.
i feel like sheep has come across as opportunistic in terms of reads sometimes but i think my reads are kind of in the same boat and they could be a lost townie.
if i were to go on meta i'd actually kinda wanna vote them here because in schadd's game scum-sheep would scramble for the weaker town players when they got wagoned and i feel like their reads and votes here are kinda like that. not sure if that's a pattern to hold weight in though.
this is scum sheep MO, to do a bunch of stuff that appears surface level townie while not actually doing anything
sky, from my POV if sheep is town, the team is like almost certainly you and hellbooks but I don't think that's it + i think you are town.
i think alisae has shown a towny process by this point
vpbaltar has shown a towny process
and tris has shown a towny process
and shea is almost certainly not scum in a town sheep world so yeah.
ironically this kinda highlights current worlds for me having hellbooks in both but i also dont feel comfortable voting there first ? maybe bc i like hellbooks lol (oh also now that im outed i can say the post where i talked about being in the mind of hellbooks slot was a reference to when we both hydra'd in a game)
In post 1229, Skygazer wrote:
still on the fence about sheep but their posting after the E1 seemed town. Shea saying they probably flip green resonated, instinctually it felt like a green flip moment to me i guess too. enough to make me wanna unvote.
i feel like sheep has come across as opportunistic in terms of reads sometimes but i think my reads are kind of in the same boat and they could be a lost townie.
if i were to go on meta i'd actually kinda wanna vote them here because in schadd's game scum-sheep would scramble for the weaker town players when they got wagoned and i feel like their reads and votes here are kinda like that. not sure if that's a pattern to hold weight in though.
yeah re:the last point, theres no really weaker players to go for here and i think their lack of even talking about scumreads is kinda outing for them
re:tris, i think town sheep actively actually shows some sense of uninformedness? if that makes sense.there is a bit of a lack of town meta for sheep in general but theres more of a solvy drive to actually find an answer rather than this kind of disconnected individual slot stuff.
like this is the only longform town game i could find thats the most recent thats on MU (since its easier to find there): https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... nous-Arson and you can see the kind of path sheep takes there is more unsure and not like confident/ "accurate"
that argument doesn't hold much water for me considering i think other worlds are possible
why do you think shea can't be scum in the world sheep is town? isn't white knight a widely scumread townie in like most of those "how to play scum" guides?
In post 1219, Alisae wrote:
Hello?
Any Sheep Defenders?
Can Sheep Defenders make their case please
I think sheep has been a lhf push from the start. I believe garlic bread even said they thought so too (though they seem to genuinely believe in a sheep scum world).
Like, I get why people find him scummy, but he also feels a bit too willing to put his own foot in his mouth without caring about the consequences.
I don't believe you have made much of a true case against him, though you're cheering that lim (perhaps only second to me most of the game.) The Sheep lim overall feels lazy.
That being said, I'm considering voting there at this point because it is the most info rich lim and I don't love the people pumping brakes after he claimed VT. Feels like PR hunting is happening if I'm being cynical.
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In post 1238, Skygazer wrote:
that argument doesn't hold much water for me considering i think other worlds are possible
why do you think shea can't be scum in the world sheep is town? isn't white knight a widely scumread townie in like most of those "how to play scum" guides?
its possible probably, yeah. Would set up sheep into me nicely, I am probably too tunneled on the sheep scum world that i havent thought too much about sheep town worlds that deeply, shea/hellbooks would work in that case?
investigative PRs should probably work within the pool of [shea/hellbooks/myself] esp in a sheep town flip world then
In post 1219, Alisae wrote:
Hello?
Any Sheep Defenders?
Can Sheep Defenders make their case please
I think sheep has been a lhf push from the start. I believe garlic bread even said they thought so too (though they seem to genuinely believe in a sheep scum world).
Like, I get why people find him scummy, but he also feels a bit too willing to put his own foot in his mouth without caring about the consequences.
I don't believe you have made much of a true case against him, though you're cheering that lim (perhaps only second to me most of the game.) The Sheep lim overall feels lazy.
That being said, I'm considering voting there at this point because it is the most info rich lim and I don't love the people pumping brakes after he claimed VT. Feels like PR hunting is happening if I'm being cynical.
tbh the vt claim *is* something that gives me pause because why not claim a PR? but perhaps they might think a PR that just isnt really provable too well wont go over here at all and VT will give people the most pause(fmpov yeah it does)
lmao theres a secret message in the post if you quote it, i didnt know that brackets could hide messages like that. definitely should be not using it for crumbing but it could be (quote and look at the bottom of the post)
I mean, I definitely think there is a nonzero chance sheep flips green. (Fwiw, I have claimed VT many times as scum early game because it does raise doubts)
I get why people see the VT claim and have second thoughts. But it's also kind of bullshit to railroad someone like it is OBVSCUM and then back away last minute, thus keeping the doubt on that person going for later. Especially on D1 when that player has been the most pressured and interacted with.
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In post 1140, Skygazer wrote:
FWIW in response to xof's last post: I played similarly here in brass and shrapnel, had a rather frozen day one. After the first flip I shot scum N1 and put in a bit of effort to help win the game D2. So I can be good at this game sometimes!! I wish I had it in me to feign confidence in my early play but for some reason I can't.
That's completely fair! And also what I've been assuming. Some people aren't good D1 players, and that's fine. I do know your name enough that you must be some kind of good else I wouldn't.
In post 1222, Thestatusquo wrote:
I've elaborated plenty. Do not mistake my exhaustion from having to deal with your constant thread presence for not having a good argument. I've made my arguments very clearly no matter how many times you keep saying the opposite with no explanation.
The cool thing about mafia is there's other people in the thread and I don't have to convince the obvious bad faith person, but everyone else.
well weird thing is everyone else agrees with me and is working from the same PoV as me weirdly enough
Don't put words in my mouth. I don't think Shea's reasons for thinking sheep is town are forced or bullshit. I don't even think Shea has made actively bad posts either so I'm always really confused that you have the perspective on them that you do. Like.. it feels like you do this thing where if somebody doesn't explain something in the exact same way you would or from the same perspective, then they are wrong and forcing things, or you entirely disregard them and their viewpoints as if they never happened. That's such a weird way to play that I'm surprised it ever works for you *and* that you still come back and play more games. Cuz like, it's always going to get you into these arguments and situations.
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In post 1244, xofelf wrote:
Like.. it feels like you do this thing where if somebody doesn't explain something in the exact same way you would or from the same perspective, then they are wrong and forcing things, or you entirely disregard them and their viewpoints as if they never happened. That's such a weird way to play that I'm surprised it ever works for you *and* that you still come back and play more games. Cuz like, it's always going to get you into these arguments and situations.
See for me my reaction to this is to think that there is a reason why someone is constantly interacting with me in bad faith.
Koba's reaction to my posts combined with the constant perspective slips into the immediate overcorrection into shading me when that was pointed out into saying that literally no one agrees with me when its incredibly obvious that's not true has long since veered into the territory where I am probably overbiased towards thinking it can't possibly be real.
Frankly the only reason I'm not lurking out today at this point in order to stop taking abuse every time I post is a stubborn desire to not let them win by bullying their way through this lim.
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