Micro 1083: Garlic Bread Heist! (Game Over)

[sheepsaysmeep]

I have reads and have stated them fairly clearly

[hellbooks]

I'm very sorry xof and your frustration is valid

[hellbooks]

this is the wildest podcast episode ever am i right
(people who read flavor will understand)

[Garlic Bread]

like ok. approach it this way. i think sheep's list is so disjointed that it is just thoughts posted by choosing a conclusion, and working backwards. thing is, sheep at least is decent at this process as scum, as evidenced by their scumplay.

they also forgot they've been supposedly townreading me for a while in that post -> why did sheep say "some of the reasons I called them a wolf is invalid" when he hasn't even called me scummy for who knows how long.

Sheep doesn't have genuine reads, the trick is to look at them individually and look at what is wrong with each.

and also he has basically gone the route of calling basically everyone "town idk" essentially->

sheep's reads according to this post:
town(unordered because idk what sheep's reads actually are weighted wise)
garlic
shea
xof
tris

null:
hellbooks
baltar
sky

???(not even specifically mentioned but seems to be implied scumread):
alisae

final answer

my poe-y people started being villagery like xof/sky so im probably wrong on a townread.

sticking with one in alisae/garlic.

i think garlic has proven themself more able to justify their read on me so some of the reasons I called them wolf are invalid, even tho some of their points are shit lol but whatever. like for the record I dont actually have a reverse volume tell, I just have a straightforward volume tell lol, I post more as villa and am more cuatious as wolf

I would go with TSQ is just town. the one only thing his current way of playing does efficiently/effectiveyl is hardddd pocket me. but as wolf he doesnt need to hard pocket me this game lmfao. I feel like sometimes v/v we vibe like when I first subbed into business game

I could be wrong on baltar, I could be wrong on sky they sometimes feel off

baltar/alisae isnt w/w because when baltar was choosing to go "we need to consolidate on someone" no matter who he picked to case he wouldve been pretty effective and I think a few people wouldve been "ok cool let's just do it" because the game was so barren and dead so I dont think he would pick a wolf partner

xof is villagery but not for good solid reasons like not for content-read reasons lool just gut

tris is pretty pure

I have no clue how to read user hellbooks. I think theyre a bit textbook wolfy but those things could be NAI how-they-play things for this user

lets go into more detail again with some questions on wtf sheep is just spewing

"my poe-y people started being villagery like xof/sky so im probably wrong on a townread." -> what posts could even lead sheep to suddenly make a statement like this?

"sticking with one in alisae/garlic. " -> sheep was not even scumreading me before this point. "Garlic Bread - I think this is town. I think he is playing in a way that is just he genuinely believes his reads; no other reason to play like this. if mafia no reason to repeat the same things many times and press people this way; breaking the gimmick in some conversations feels genuine " - 815

and combined with 1061 sheep has me in their town pile and even makes a justification for why im town despite thinking that pushes on him are scum driven (?)

Like look deeper into this slot, you see a lot of the stuff they say is complete BS and pretty openly fake when you start to trace the lines of progression.

I'm not good at casing slots like these, usually it's seen pretty easily by the people around me when I find a scum like this, but look at the illogical nature of their read progression. Yes, townies *can* be illogical, but this is illogical in a way that implies faked reads.

@sheep can you respond to this thanks

[tris]

the flavor has been great

[Garlic Bread]

basically how did you come to the conclusion that alisae and I are a difference check

[sheepsaysmeep]

I'll try to find the will to do that rn I'd rather self-hammer lol

[Garlic Bread]

ok then do it

[sheepsaysmeep]

idk

I think pushes like this on me tend to be wolf-driven lol and am not sure if that's justified or not. my experience is like, town can sort of see the light in me, like because theyre genuinely reflecting on me they can see little nuggets and other shit, and wolves tend to be like wtf is there to like about this guy; why aren't we just pummeling him? I made a mildly correct read for a moment like this in election mafia, where bingle + lld were pushing the notion "at this point we just have to assume sheep is wolf because PoE, there's no reason to think sheep's villa so we just work with sheep lockwolf obv." whereas my townreads were either like just townreading me sometimes iirc, or guiltylion here and there was always like ahh I guess sheep is wolf but I like this sheep post, I liked that sheep post, poe makes sense but there's really stuff I like. and wolves tend to straight up just not see it and I think that's potentially a valid tell

I think theres two things that bug me about this push that Ive already talked about. 1) I feel like poe is a really really really overused item in the push against me. im just so constantly reading from alisae/garlic (ig mainly garlic) "everyone else is villagery" in combination with skepticism at how tf u can find sheep is villagery. that just doesnt seem like it holds for me, that you can lock all these different people at fairly confident town for the purposes of solving (sky, xof, lower poster types etc) and then be outraged that sheep is able to be found as villager; one of the two is fake. I feel like I have like a comparable amount of meaningful content/insights as a certain half of the playerlist combined, like I rly dont think theyre super high quality insights or particularly villagery but the way garlic talks about me pretends they dont exist.
2) I feel like there's this outright refusal to truly explain the push on me. like I saw alisae saying something about deferring to garlic who's better explaining the sheep push, and im like wait a second what the fuck garlic has definitely been unwilling to talk about it in a ton of depth and retorting "why have you found sheep villagery." like I guess alisae named posts and it's fine, but it's meh. nothing matches up to the magnitude of confidence in the push (v confident) + the dynamic with garlic is weird and hard to believe as natural. might tilt koba but I often think maybe youre just not able to explain this read on me to the level you portray, like you talk about how youre reallyyy so certain and then it's just shallow / there's an avoidance to really try to sell it with to people with reasoning/casing and it just feels off


I dont know what I want to do with this because I think garlic has done some very prob just villager things that I would usually just lock someone away for in a game like this

and alisae had aspects of their wall/worldview that I like.
for example =their descriptions of the trio aligns somewhat lol with something I felt about the game ish. I have a town group and then I have a group of people I dont feel like I can >rand read d1, and they all have valid excuses why theyre so meh to me

I wrote a readlist earlier and it was just like

sheep/tris/bread/baltar/shea
===
xof/hellbooks/alisae/sky

and I was like it feels like theres just not a ton more Im able to do with this

I dont really know if this is a thing to +town alisae for cuz it's a bit different but there was stuff like that that I nodded along at

this is the main post where I concluded at least one wolf in u/alisae

and then follow-up is scattered throughout later posts where I go from "bad feeling" to a more confident "there just must be a wolf"

but I townread both of your posting independently which is why it probably seems weird when I talk about it

[Garlic Bread]

man u are so hard to kill as scum holy shit

[xofelf]

Look, I expect to end up in tears over Survivor games, but not like this over fucking mafia. I signed up for this game cuz the flavour was definitely going to be cute and fun, and the playerlist has a bunch of people I enjoy playing with. But it's been decidedly not fun and I'm tired and frustrated and angry. I shouldn't have to feel like every time I catch up and read this thread that I need to step away again because I'm so exhausted after reading. I can't look at slots objectively when I just have such bad feelings while engaging in the thread and I'm aware that it is hindering my ability to play, and I'm not a very good player in the first place. But reading the game through multi-iso shouldn't be something anybody should have to do so as not to read posts from a specific playerslot, kinda makes that slot anti-town at best from my pov. I'm just over it. And maybe if I take a step away from the game again I could be convinced to vote somewhere else, but today right now, I'm not about it. And I don't really want to just hammer a specific slot just so that the day ends when I think that slot is town and could be helpful, and I can't be sure what the gamestate looks like Tomorrow.

while ive been a bit of a shitter with how ive reacted to all this, consider that ive been enduring this unnecessary personal grudge from shea where he started by insulting my personal skill at the game and made it his goal to shut me out of the game while I tried to extend multiple olive branches and such over the course of the game and just gave up and yeah im just gonna have fun with it while i can because i have confidence he is town and im gonna try to carry him even if I dont think he deserves to win this game and I have no stakes at this point.

i didnt make it my personal goal to make the day revolve around "we need to just kill this slot without discussing why"

im not gonna like say im a saint but consider the other side and that im a super reactive person to people. i *wanted* to try to work with shea and even like didn't interfere with whatever he was doing with baltar for instance near the beginning because i was just not interested in stepping on toes and let him play it out etc. but apparently because i am a very measured and objective person and feel reasonably experienced to notice stuff over the course of a lot of games , i still have to bow down to shea's play? like this is basically how it is, his primary issue *is that i offended him by my confidence in my own play*. Like IDK yeah its a pretty crazy manipulative move to discredit him by pushing a scumworld with him in it, but I didnt even have to admit i was doing that, I could have let him stay in PoE after the flip and seeing it be red and let it happen, I came clean when I felt it was appropriate.

Sure, like I get that. I'm just fucking tired dude, and I'm genuinely not okay with that kind of play in a game. I think I'm just incredibly burnt out on mafia. The fucking Shirou and mastina shitfest was exhausting and this situation feels worse after. Like, I am genuinely sorry if you've taken any of my posts tonight on a personal level cuz like, I like you a lot as a person, I just find it incredibly difficult to play with that kind of interaction.

sheep, you do have a point about a 1 v 1 trade is stupid, especially given you've claimed VT while GB is not. You just also feel like an easy vote being pushed that nobody has strong enough feelings to fight for you and it gives me pause and I don't particularly like to vote for town if I can help it.

[hellbooks]

[- empty -]

DOCTOR ZONE

hellbooks

[- empty -]
[- empty -]
tris, xofelf
alisae // skygazer <- they are in two separate tiers that are roughly at the same height
sheep
baltar
thestatus quo
[- empty -]

[xofelf]

I'm very sorry xof and your frustration is valid

I appreciate you.

[Thestatusquo]

I think its hellbooks alisae if I'm being completely honest.

[Garlic Bread]

u see the issue is like sheep has all these thoughts but has 0 care on expanding the thoughts like hellbooks mafia

they havent tried to appeal to me directly like theyve just tried to look like a poor lil townie instead of trying to convince me of their scumreads

if there *has to be a scum* why is sheep currently voting hellbooks


sheep wants to *look* like he is doing stuff he isnt actually doing anything and is just regurgitating stuff he knows is true as scum because of TMI

[sheepsaysmeep]

I feel like ive talked enough about why I have a bunch of towns and then a small floating ??? pool that it's a bit unfair to paint that as "all townreads no wolfreads, all over the place, is an inherently wolfy thing" as you have

like I thought most of the active posters with lots of reads were quite towny in this game

and then there was like, skygazer, xof, hellbooks poe-ish. who were a bit "empty" as in nothing to try to call town imo, and generally being like that after so long is eeeeever slightly wolfy. but then literally each one made a post about how they dont do that day 1 and it was like ok that's totally fair lol. but now im just sitting here with two piles and I dont feel like I can do more with them d1 like develop real meaningful scumreads, which ive referenced here and there

[VP Baltar]

I think sheeps flip will be more helpful than any post he can make

Sheep's flip is helpful here. I know hellbrooks thinks it's scummy to be honest about that, but this is the d1 flip that leads to a productive d2.

[Alisae]

Let’s break down sheep voters
Gb - had tried to kill sheep and is the only person who is really looking at sheep posts with a careful eye
Vp - compromising on sheep otherwise wants to kill me
Ali - wants to kill sheep
Hellbooks - pressured into voting sheep

Not sheep voters
Skygazer - feels like if they vote sheep it flips town and they have regrets
Shea - wants to vote garlic bread
Tris - ???????
Xof - feels like sheep is an “easy vote” and no one is really pushing back on it

[Garlic Bread]

like idk how clear it is that sheep *knows* how to use his TMI to make good sounding reads, he just has 0 progression and no curiosity at all.

sheep, GL is a wolf, yes?

idk bro im not really there

like a greater than random chance but still less than 50% imo

but very imprecisely, and not really based on very meaningful stuff

uhh can u give me a tldr abt why u think that / the relevant stuff he's done?

like heres a snippet of Election where he was town. this guy has asked other players in this game itself 0 questions and just has all the answers already

i get it, he looks nice on the surface but please look past it.

[Thestatusquo]

I just can't deal with the complete lack of self awareness that koba has and the incessant talking down to me and insulting me.

I don't want to let them bully me out of playing this game that I joined because I was fucking invited to play by a person who knows they're in my blacklist and still decided to secret alt play in a game with me and then spent the entire time after revealing calling me names.

And frankly I disagree with sheep that this is a) a trade (koba has more than enough self-confidence to expect they'll be able to talk themselves out being limmed tomorrow if you flip green) and b) disagree that koba wouldn't trade themselves for an inconsequential slot when I literally just watched them trade themselves for kowa in team mafia and this is when they come in and are like "oh I had a reason for doing that and it is actually very smart *masters thesis*" but actually it was incredibly bad and borderline game throwing how they and mastina played that game so I refuse to accept the conclusion that such a play is out of range.

[sheepsaysmeep]

I think sheeps flip will be more helpful than any post he can make

Sheep's flip is helpful here. I know hellbrooks thinks it's scummy to be honest about that, but this is the d1 flip that leads to a productive d2.

tell me what it does lmfao

gets garlic pummeled even tho he's mostt likely villager

which is fair enough and fine and im cool with death but it's kinda bogus that my v flip will make this game better lmfao

[Alisae]

Xof I don’t think the idea that no one is pushing back against sheep is true. That only really fits w/ shea.
I don’t really know what skygazer and tris are doing but for whatever reason they don’t want to send sheep to the shadow realm

I genuinely could not tell u who I think the mafia voting sheep would be if they’re town I think they have to be mafia

[hellbooks]

sheep flips town -> we lim bread -> ??? lose in elo to baltris mental neighborhood scumteam
sheep flips scum -> we lim me -> acceptable, although doctorless, outcome

[Thestatusquo]

fwiw Garlics pronouns are listed as bread but kobas pronouns are they/them.

[sheepsaysmeep]

I just can't deal with the complete lack of self awareness that koba has and the incessant talking down to me and insulting me.

I don't want to let them bully me out of playing this game that I joined because I was fucking invited to play by a person who knows they're in my blacklist and still decided to secret alt play in a game with me and then spent the entire time after revealing calling me names.

And frankly I disagree with sheep that this is a) a trade (koba has more than enough self-confidence to expect they'll be able to talk themselves out being limmed tomorrow if you flip green) and b) disagree that koba wouldn't trade themselves for an inconsequential slot when I literally just watched them trade themselves for kowa in team mafia and this is when they come in and are like "oh I had a reason for doing that and it is actually very smart *masters thesis*" but actually it was incredibly bad and borderline game throwing how they and mastina played that game so I refuse to accept the conclusion that such a play is out of range.

ok fair enough VOTE: garlic lmao