Mini Normal 2303 [Postgame!!!!]

[Black]

The point is that cook is the scummiest player in the game and I want there to be a proper wagon there??? Literally this entire narrative is desperately trying to avoid the massive elephant in the room

Would you mind scumcasing Cook? I'm not avoiding the elephant, I just don't see it

VOTE: Black

Congrats you have what you want

I think you are trying really hard to look like you don't care about being voted and therefore you are towny because I really struggle to see this coming from any other mindset

I don't care about being voted. I know I'm town. But if you think I'm town then this vote doesn't really make sense to me...

[Black]

Oh one thing I did wanna respond to was the “happy because he rolled scum” that Black and I think happy both said. Uhh nah, you guys don’t me but those that do know I do not like playing for the bad guys, so I would’ve definitely not been happy here and doubt I could’ve faked it that well.

Yeah that was a joke, I don't really think it was scummy lol. But I do find this interesting. I MUCH prefer to roll scum. It feels way easier to me

[ItalianoVD]

I’m liking the posts by Asri on pg 26, especially I like the callout on Cook and Black. I know you don’t care but it’s pushing you up towards Invis.

[ItalianoVD]

Actually this one might have misread the question?? It's almost 3am. Not an OMGUS either way. Bro's just plain lookin' weird.

This one was referencing his sus on it. If it wants to say why the cook sus from him is looking weird?

The only thing this one would really wanna bring up wrt Italiano's read is the seeming gap in his progression, as he states multiple times he townreads me before saying he might be willing to vote me in 567. Just wondering what's up with that.

My townread there was more of a “nah scum wouldn’t do that” townread, meaning I don’t think scum would be that blatantly clumsy as to jump off of an RVS wagon and start pushing the people that were on the same wagon they were just on. Doesn’t really make sense as it’s so obvious.

It’s kind of how a less experienced wolf player would play. I just always assume everyone here is more experienced than that, but I suppose not and sometimes the most obvious answer is the right answer. That is why the suspicion and the vote is there.

[ItalianoVD]

Even 213 and 214 is me trying to get a feel for Princess because I strongly disagreed with 159 and 178, but I just chalked it up as townie.

[ItalianoVD]

Oh one thing I did wanna respond to was the “happy because he rolled scum” that Black and I think happy both said. Uhh nah, you guys don’t me but those that do know I do not like playing for the bad guys, so I would’ve definitely not been happy here and doubt I could’ve faked it that well.

Yeah that was a joke, I don't really think it was scummy lol. But I do find this interesting. I MUCH prefer to roll scum. It feels way easier to me

I have a much better time and success as town as I mentioned with my townread rate than I do at manipulating. And I hate it lol.

[ItalianoVD]

I think I have an easier time trusting people, or I should say choosing to trust people than a lot of players because I don’t really care if I’m played by a scum that I townread the whole game. It’s kudos to them imo.

[ItalianoVD]

It’s a competition, but don’t wanna derail so did you ever say what you thought of happy? I may have missed it.

[Black]

I think I have an easier time trusting people, or I should say choosing to trust people than a lot of players because I don’t really care if I’m played by a scum that I townread the whole game. It’s kudos to them imo.

Yeah for me it's the opposite. I have a hard time trusting anyone, even my townreads

Re: happy. I said he's hard to read but I actually lean town on him this game. I think he's playing similarly to the town games I've seen from him so far

[fireisredsir]

I'm trying to ask about your read on Italiano

Like, do you think he expects invisibility to claim masons with him? After invisibility calls him scum so strongly

Is there more to the mason claim being scummy?

respectively:
- ask about it then, or point to a place when you asked about it please
- no, no i don't
-

why in the goddamn would town fakeclaim.

if there is no logical reason for it, then there you go. that's why i scumread italiano

retracted it, after you disproved it

again, what else would Italiano do in this situation? Seems kinda obvious that Italiano would retract the claim after it was disproven cuz otherwise he would be megadead. I don't know how it gains towncred other than being the choice that doesn't get him dead immediately and so I don't see why that was even worth mentioning

pedit: yes what Fire said

i'm just bamboozled why you would fakeclaim masons with someone who isn't even your scumpartner unless you're, say

trying to deliberately distance

but i don't think that's what's happening here

I mean, I am too, but

why is your conclusion from it that it's scummy for italiano

thank you!!

I think most players would interpret it as a joke because no shit they are not masons

I am trying to understand why you are approaching this from the angle it was intended to be taken seriously.

perhaps i am bad at reading that kind of thing and it doesn't go well in terms of playing mafia

Like if it makes no sense for town to do and it makes no sense for scum to do according to you how is that not NAI

general feel on italiano??

i don't know. i should be thinking it's nai.

i actually kinda like this from cook

not necessarily in terms of like, process. bc ideally she wouldn't need so much prodding to realize that if she doesn't think it makes sense as either alignment then it's probably more on the side of nai (altho side note i disagree with the premise from ausuka. scum sometimes do things that make no sense intentionally. town have no reason to. i think that makes it slightly on the scum side of ai)

but anyway i feel like i can see this idea dawning on cook as the conversation progresses and i believe that is happening

and i don't really like how ausuka just left things be after this last post and didn't seem to acknowledge what looks to me like a pretty open display of town thought process

[fireisredsir]

like does scum cook here really be like "huh. i guess you're right. i didn't think of it that way."

im sure some scum players would but it just feels honest to me here given the context

[Black]

{Fire, Asri, HPE, happy} these are my strongest townreads. I kinda want to townread Katy too

{Something_Smart, Hu Tao, T3} these players are in my blind spot and I want more from them

{Cook, Italiano} these players are pretty null to me. I moved Italiano up a little because I kinda like his responses and reaction to pressure

{Ausuka, Invisibility} these players are the scummiest to me and I can even see this being the solve. It's probably not that easy though

[fireisredsir]

gotta go for now but this is a reminder to myself that there's a couple other things i wanna talk about from the last few pages

[iamveryhappy]

Wow I’m getting townread
It’s a first in d1

[Ausuka]

I think the overarching theme with cook is that I don't really get the feeling she cares about scumhunting or wants to kill the mafia particularly.

I think probably the best example of this is the aftermath of the Cook wagon hitting e-2; obviously I've already gone over this, but for someone who was primarily looking for scum on her wagon her behaviour was odd. While it's not impossible for her to miss it I would expect someone in that situation to have seen the pretty big post that I made outlining why I was voting cook. She also included a RVS vote in there from KKFC and that feels even more bizarre. It felt like she was going through the motions of saying 'look, there is scum on my wagon, scum in these people' but wasn't really thinking it through and actually, like, scumhunting.

I get similar vibes from the push on italiano. I think it felt after the mason claim that it felt like most people were pretty against italiano for it. I think that was sort of the initial response and as people thought it through more they saw it as, like, not as big of a deal. I felt like cook was pushing italiano on it later than most people and her reasoning - bringing up the walkback especially when that was always going to be inevitable - felt off to me. When I pressed her on it, she initially seemed pretty indignant about it - even bolding 'why would TOWN do it' - and then fell back on 'idk maybe i shouldnt it's vibes'. I really do not agree with the idea that this is towny and I do not think this like, gradually dawned on Cook as the conversation progressed or whatever - this especially needs to be seen in the context of her immediately previous conversation with Invisibility. I think the push on italiano was an opportunistic one that was never thought through and I think this looks especially bad in the context of the rest of her play.

Re; her approach to me, as I said I still don't really feel like the 'i want you to be town for better scumhunting' was genuine; I don't think I displayed anything that would really make me in particular feel like a good player from Cook at the time and she doesn't treat my push like she thinks it's reasonable or understandable. It feels more like a soft buddying attempt. Similarly when she said she was getting a better vibe from me, it was immediately after I questioned italiano on his Cook vote - which like, it's possible that it was a coincidence or that improved my vibes to cook, but I think it's +scum given that it feels like it could be strategically timed to encourage me to like pivot away from her (which is like pretty common for people to do with early scumreads, i do that a lot, I just happen to think in this game cook has been scummy throughout and that hasn't really changed for me)

[Ausuka]

I'm trying to ask about your read on Italiano

Like, do you think he expects invisibility to claim masons with him? After invisibility calls him scum so strongly

Is there more to the mason claim being scummy?

respectively:
- ask about it then, or point to a place when you asked about it please
- no, no i don't
-

why in the goddamn would town fakeclaim.

if there is no logical reason for it, then there you go. that's why i scumread italiano

retracted it, after you disproved it

again, what else would Italiano do in this situation? Seems kinda obvious that Italiano would retract the claim after it was disproven cuz otherwise he would be megadead. I don't know how it gains towncred other than being the choice that doesn't get him dead immediately and so I don't see why that was even worth mentioning

pedit: yes what Fire said

i'm just bamboozled why you would fakeclaim masons with someone who isn't even your scumpartner unless you're, say

trying to deliberately distance

but i don't think that's what's happening here

I mean, I am too, but

why is your conclusion from it that it's scummy for italiano

thank you!!

I think most players would interpret it as a joke because no shit they are not masons

I am trying to understand why you are approaching this from the angle it was intended to be taken seriously.

perhaps i am bad at reading that kind of thing and it doesn't go well in terms of playing mafia

Like if it makes no sense for town to do and it makes no sense for scum to do according to you how is that not NAI

general feel on italiano??

i don't know. i should be thinking it's nai.

i actually kinda like this from cook

not necessarily in terms of like, process. bc ideally she wouldn't need so much prodding to realize that if she doesn't think it makes sense as either alignment then it's probably more on the side of nai (altho side note i disagree with the premise from ausuka. scum sometimes do things that make no sense intentionally. town have no reason to. i think that makes it slightly on the scum side of ai)

but anyway i feel like i can see this idea dawning on cook as the conversation progresses and i believe that is happening

and i don't really like how ausuka just left things be after this last post and didn't seem to acknowledge what looks to me like a pretty open display of town thought process

I don't really agree it's an 'open display of town thought process' and I'm not sure why you expect me to given the rest of your post doesn't seem like you think this is obviously town ( 'i actually kinda like this' )

I'm not really sure what to say about your point tbh except I really just don't see this idea dawning on cook as the conversation progresses; if anything I think it's rather abrupt, from her convo with invisibility and her first reply to me vs her last two replies.

I think scum 'doing things that make no sense intentionally' is like, really rare. Like unless I'm having a major brainfart, I don't really remember seeing a scum do that ever. I think sometimes, scum do things that make no sense accidentally because they don't have a town thought process, or because they're desperate. I don't think either of these apply in this scenario.

[Ausuka]

I don't care about being voted. I know I'm town. But if you think I'm town then this vote doesn't really make sense to me...

I don't think you're town, I think you asking me to vote for you was meant to look like non survivalistic -> town. Like, the approach is designed to get townread.

By the way, it's possible I'm misinterpreting this but didn't you say earlier that you do care about being voted and you're quite defensive as town? Like, "I think she defends herself a lot and seems concerned with people scum reading her, but I can't really scumread that because I do that a lot as town"

[Black]

I don't think you're town, I think you asking me to vote for you was meant to look like non survivalistic -> town. Like, the approach is designed to get townread.

Oh I think I misunderstood your comment. This makes sense

By the way, it's possible I'm misinterpreting this but didn't you say earlier that you do care about being voted and you're quite defensive as town? Like, "I think she defends herself a lot and seems concerned with people scum reading her, but I can't really scumread that because I do that a lot as town"

You're right. This is something I'm actively trying to work on. I've even talked to some people outside of the game about how to handle this better. I haven't made much progress tbh and I think the only reason I'm not defensive here is because the two people that voted me gave me no reasons why. I can't defend myself when I don't know what I did that made someone think I'm scummy

So I guess I do care about being voted as town, but in this case I don't feel very concerned about the push on me

Also I appreciate you laying out your Cook thoughts. I want to look over them and Cook's ISO in more detail after lunch

[Cook]

black are you trying to buddy me

[Black]

black are you trying to buddy me

If I was I wouldn't be doing a very good job. I have you as a null read

[Cook]

black are you trying to buddy me

If I was I wouldn't be doing a very good job. I have you as a null read

fair enough

still could be though

[iamveryhappy]

I think that I shouldnt tell you this
But I had really shit luck today
I got the wrong train and was home late by around 1.5 hours
I totally fucked up maths and got a B
Watch me get banned today as well
Kek

[Black]

black are you trying to buddy me

If I was I wouldn't be doing a very good job. I have you as a null read

fair enough

still could be though

Where are you getting this impression from?

[Cook]

I think the overarching theme with cook is that I don't really get the feeling she cares about scumhunting or wants to kill the mafia particularly.

do you care about this either? just saying

I think probably the best example of this is the aftermath of the Cook wagon hitting e-2; obviously I've already gone over this, but for someone who was primarily looking for scum on her wagon her behaviour was odd. While it's not impossible for her to miss it I would expect someone in that situation to have seen the pretty big post that I made outlining why I was voting cook. She also included a RVS vote in there from KKFC and that feels even more bizarre. It felt like she was going through the motions of saying 'look, there is scum on my wagon, scum in these people' but wasn't really thinking it through and actually, like, scumhunting.

that was a massive shitshow as a whole. i'm just trying to play the game and here you are getting on my case for forgetting to go do something after people gave me the second opinion that the wagon didn't matter. and ex

cuse

me for putting an RVS vote in that pile under duress. honest townies make mistakes. don't lie to me and tell me that doesn't happen. don't pretend that every little mistake matters. get out of the tunnel and go hunt scum, instead of trying to kill people for playing a bad town game.

I get similar vibes from the push on italiano. I think it felt after the mason claim that it felt like most people were pretty against italiano for it. I think that was sort of the initial response and as people thought it through more they saw it as, like, not as big of a deal. I felt like cook was pushing italiano on it later than most people and her reasoning - bringing up the walkback especially when that was always going to be inevitable - felt off to me. When I pressed her on it, she initially seemed pretty indignant about it - even bolding 'why would TOWN do it' - and then fell back on 'idk maybe i shouldnt it's vibes'. I really do not agree with the idea that this is towny and I do not think this like, gradually dawned on Cook as the conversation progressed or whatever - this especially needs to be seen in the context of her immediately previous conversation with Invisibility. I think the push on italiano was an opportunistic one that was never thought through and I think this looks especially bad in the context of the rest of her play.

do you

not

apply pressure to people after they slip up? i barely remember that previous conversation anyhow.

Re; her approach to me, as I said I still don't really feel like the 'i want you to be town for better scumhunting' was genuine; I don't think I displayed anything that would really make me in particular feel like a good player from Cook at the time and she doesn't treat my push like she thinks it's reasonable or understandable. It feels more like a soft buddying attempt. Similarly when she said she was getting a better vibe from me, it was immediately after I questioned italiano on his Cook vote - which like, it's possible that it was a coincidence or that improved my vibes to cook, but I think it's +scum given that it feels like it could be strategically timed to encourage me to like pivot away from her (which is like pretty common for people to do with early scumreads, i do that a lot, I just happen to think in this game cook has been scummy throughout and that hasn't really changed for me)

i really don't get where all this "X is trying to get me to pivot off of Cook" is coming from. let it be known that i do not have a pt with anyone else in this game. i'm not collaborating, i'm not buddying, i'm trying to help town win and i can't do that while you're holding me at gunpoint.

[Cook]

black are you trying to buddy me

If I was I wouldn't be doing a very good job. I have you as a null read

fair enough

still could be though

Where are you getting this impression from?

i don't know sometimes i just say things. you're smart. you can ignore them