Open 878: Scarfolk Council | The End

[Ydrasse]

i think if sheep flips mafia it's marginally clearing for fire but i can't say 100% because they're both viable wagons at this point whereas earlier i could see sheep trying to powerwolf their way into keeping a partner safe, but that would be kind of lol, i guess it makes sense if it's like "i will say a lot of buzzwords about you but not point out objective realities about the actual game we're playing"

[Ydrasse]

i think implosion and aureal are likely to be town, i have a vague reason for aureal which lol in context but i think aureal seeing me show up into a game and everyone is like, okay heres my view and aureal is like OH MY GOD LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT FIRE feels real, im unsure if someone is mafia and they decide to immediately get that excited/loud about it but it also may be a personality thing but its fine for now

[Ydrasse]

i dont think aisa is as towny as i expected her to be from skimming through her posts, i dont think that one page implosion linked impressed me a lot with the flip flopping but i didnt find it actively wolfy or anything so shrugs

[Ydrasse]

ive already expressed my feelings on dunn but he doesnt feel "Normal" to me which may be NAI but its like also hes pushing me so im being meaner about it and i think he's setting up strange dichotomies to solve and lim and i think that him positing a readpool and then going "nahhh" actually is just... idk it feels weird to be staking out what was a vanity wagon on my slot instead of doing something that would be more useful

[Ydrasse]

ermmmm i need to read more of everyone else but those are the standout thoughts to me i truly cannot be bothered to read all of this even knowing i Should do it

[Ydrasse]

cephrir is also just a shrug on most recent posts, i dont think i read back far enough to know why hes scumreading aureal but i currently dont see that as a wolf so im like ):<

[Cephrir]

What is this trying thing you're doing idgi

[sheepsaysmeep]

I dont rly like ydrasse's catchup lol and I think it fits in team with my scumreads

[sheepsaysmeep]

ya idk i was reading around wagonstuff and that post with the vote here is like

sheep is just doing the same thing they did last game i think where they called someone super towny but the reasoning wasn't like, great
i think in the other game it wasn't as strong as that post which makes it weirder that they have like just abandoned that viewpoint to vote here

I think this just makes no sense as a read on me, out of all the posts I have

in that game, I never really attempted to explain the townread on the person (litten?). the person was a consensus obvious town and was literally never doubted from day 2 until endgame, so there was no reason to explain anything.

fire is just a not even remotely comparable scenario?


feels like forcing a meta read after she hyped up "im so excited to sort sheep using the meta I have!" and just mildly opportunistic lol.

[sheepsaysmeep]

I think "this read seems like a strong townread so it's weird that he's since changed to voting him" is just a bad read in a way that's a pretty wolfy way

[sheepsaysmeep]

i have a vague reason for aureal which lol in context but i think aureal seeing me show up into a game and everyone is like, okay heres my view and aureal is like OH MY GOD LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT FIRE feels real, im unsure if someone is mafia and they decide to immediately get that excited/loud about it but it also may be a personality thing but its fine for now

this I just do not buy, esp in context of her having my last wolfgame in her head, where I faked a deathtunnel on someone and was constantly spamming them begging them to listen to me about that person

[sheepsaysmeep]

blah

[Ydrasse]

And I read the post before, I mean I want you to cite the exact posts where fire is being objectively villagery

idk maybe there's nothing there if others dont see it lol. I just think his vibe is extremely villagery. villagery thought processes + very unafraid to engage with people + lots of WIM. I think he's had a pro-town effect on the game with how I had completely no motivation until fireisredsir entered and im like oh shit now we really have a game now theres good stuff. I have by far the best gut/natural reaction to his posting in this game before I process it and am like eh fine a wolf can do that. I would feel better about the wagon on him if it acknowledges those aspects of his play that I think look good (idk if it does that yet, I still havent read very in-depth and citing the specific posts u want rn feels weird cuz of that lolz. it's an eager open approach to the game thing

I like fire's skitter read, at a quick skim. I think it's vaguely similar to mild paranoia ive been wanting to articulate that her reads are too static?
like for example, she first put CSF at wolf for a minor thing. then she keeps repeating here and there that she thinks CSF is a wolf, but many many people have expressed a different opinion and she doesn't engage with it. she asked me why I townread CSF, didnt rly do anything with the response; tons of other people say "I townread CSF" and skitter disagrees but just doesn't rly interact. I think something similar happened with Andante, where first she developed a push on Andante, then a bunch of people went "I feel like this is town for andante?" sorta stuff and I dont feel skitter faced that enough and instead just kept maintaining a rigid andante!wolf

when I saw fire talking about skitter I liked fire more, it feels like we're somewhattt poking at a similar thing

I think if fire is a wolf then maybe egix is wolf, but if fire's villager I find egix's progression very villager from unvoting fire at e-1 and then progressing onto skitter

sheepsaysmeep is town

I think implosion is just town still. I didnt read the scumgame he linked suuper closely but I think theres a noticeable difference in his discomfort and like the depth/complexity of his thoughts

I think fire is toooown, it's not that there's anything he did like "that's really hard to fake", it's just like he said we are responding reallyyyy similarly to some things lol and when that happens on a large-scale it's usually just town. and I find the efforts against him just pretty underwhelming

I think ceph is town, maybe trended down a little

menal is probtown. like at the peak of his exchange with fire, at the wall, he was locktown, prob top town. but I find his recent couple pop-ins that are just "vote red" reallyyyy bothersome and bad faith. one specific example, one effort he made to push people onto red over skitter was "just look at the people on the two wagons." that one bugged me the most because it was like, almost all the fire-voters or intent to do so like implosion had basically ceased playing the game and processed nothing since fire's posting, the people who would vote skitter here are the ones who have credibility in terms of currently actively evaluating, and that was something I was gonna talk about with why red>skitter bothers me so much. and it doesnt feel like his reads are so polarized between the two wagons that he can justify/overcome that disparity


egix is like iffy-town lol, I liked csf and then I sorta like some stuff but I feel like he's being relatively unreadable to me and it means he has to trend into "iffy" territory. hopefully we are around at the same time sometime to converse

aisa is like, my gut still screams wolf, but I think maybe I should just accept she's a threadspewed villager. the really general explanation why I constantly feel like she's a wolf is almost, like, "she's being too reasonable." I find that among big posts with lots of words, it's like ultimately nothing is being said and im often like damn I was excited that there was gonna be a firm assertion at the end, like thus I conclude this person is wolf and it would be spicy, but it turns out there realllyyyyyy rarely is that firm assertion and it sorta just seems like a wolf who struggles to formulate strong wolfreads. reads rarely stick long-term. like I find aisa can be talked out of most things, and sometimes that doesnt feel like a villager with enough natural instincts. BUT a) I accept this could just be playstyle, b) what mainly sticks out to me is that after being like, strongly townread by nearly everyone, aisa keeps playing the same and having lots of motivation and feeling free. not that me doing the converse is wolf lol, but that is like the most villagery possible response and alone makes me sorta feel like it's v lol


I feel like ive outlined the mainnn thing that stood out to me about skitter. like progression on csf is "I feel like that csf post was wolfy" -> hundreds posts later, "I think csf is p wolf" -> hundreds posts later, "csf is prob wolf." between those posts, many people, most of the playerlist, say they think csf is town, the only one she acknowledges is asking me why. I think similar things happen with other wolfreads like me slowly trending down for not being here, with andante sitting at wolf despite like strong reasons some things were NAI just meta-fact-wise.
her response to the wagon is also just, a lot of different parts of just dont make enough sense to me to buy it. there was a bunch of aspects that I cant all think of right now. 1) is just what ive discussed about "push fire/sheep after I die" being performative, and pushing the idea that if people don't push her reads after she dies then theyre wolfy felt especially dirty to me. like, people almost never follow legacy reads on this website lol, let alone when you're the lim, and I really dont think skitter's reads this game seemed like she would be so confident "this must be immediately pummeled after I die." the reads have seemed relatively mellow. 2) I don't buy her reacting like semi-omgus reads, in how she's been like, "fire and sheep are wolves for their pushes on me, the others can be villa." I just do not believe that that doesnt align with her reads too conveniently, and then she's acting as if it's based on the ways we've pushed her rather than prior reads. for example, the way she responded to egix was as if she was going to omgus him, and tonally accusatory, then suddenly he's town. why is aisa hopping on the wagon town and sheep is gross and wolfy? it just feels like conclusions that aren't actually based on how we joined the wagon; if anything I explained myself more than aisa, where I described a paranoia that's been brewing throughout the whole game and aisa just described one mena-fire conversation and allowed that to move her vote. then, people pop in, are reluctant to vote fire and ok with voting sheep, and suddenly skitter thinks sheep looks worse than fire. it's just omgus to try to fire a counterwagon


then you get to like, merlyn/aureal (im just going to bunch them together cuz im short on time)
Merlyn - I was feeling not good previously about the andante slot, Merlyn has been ok
aureal - purest tone ive played with in a long time which is +town

but I keep coming to that push on me as a little bad faith. I think "sheep hasn't been explaining things and his contributions have started lacking" feels weird to assert like that because it ignores context. at first, I was definitely not what theyre describing, I started the game pretty thorough. then, I was like we just need to kill enchant here lol--which could be wolfy, but it completely explains what theyre describing. then, I outright say, im lacking motivation for this game and not going to do much, which could be wolfy, but it explains what theyre describing. to the point where it's wolfy to just be like "sheep is doing these things, these are wolfy things so obv sheep is a wolf"

I think generally, in an omgus-y way, the push onto me feels very wolf-driven. skitter's explanation boils down to "sheep is lacking wim" and that slowly devolved into sheep is definitely wolf here. as implosion described, this feels just, outright shit reasoning when it applies to the vast majority of the game. dunn is playing the game less than he did eod1. ceph is playing the game even less. menal has been playing the game less. implosion is playing the game less. etc.
then a wave of people joins on and I just think there's got to be a wolf trying to take advantage of the momentum
skitter: d1 sheep townread -> sheep wolf -- for which I feel there is basically no justification out there
menal: d1 sheep townread -> I'll yeet sheep today, no explanations
ceph: d1 sheep townread -> I'll yeet sheep today, no explanations
implosion: sheep just trends way down
fire: sheep from top town to light scumlean
Merlyn: from top townread to see's aureal post about me that I don't feel is a very accurate overall portrayal and goes assertively you know what she's right

like obviously there are some villagers / very strong townreads in this bunch but my instinct thinks this push feels gravelyyyy wrong and very on-the-whole wolf-driven, like 2 wolves present. maybe my instinct is wrong because it's inherently omgus-y and omgus is illogical, idk. I see in p-edit that egix has quashed counterwagons away onto me so I am slightly pocketed.

my main problem is that the one big justification I see that makes some people have hope they can actually lim me today: "sheep dropped off!" just starts to ignore stuff at this point like the past 24 hours. I have un-dropped-off while others have more-dropped-off. implosion is someone who townread me, then was skeptical, then read my new content thoroughly, found some of it villagery. fire townread me, then was skeptical, then read my new content thoroughly, found some of it villagery. people who are not engaging closely and then like ok I'll yeet sheep lol just feels like bad play to a point where it's somewhat wolfy

I personally do not think I feel good about a fire lim lol idk

like I get if it just has to be resolved the way this game is

but my own preference is to play like a normal day of mafia

implosion being softly down to "Just Lim fire" is like 0.01% weird to me meh

like I get it but switched sides a bit easily

going to sleep in a sec but +1 that I want massclaim today

fire could be wolf like I am whelmed by him but I think I am not happy to just consensus-pummel him so claims seem right today

[Ydrasse]

ya idk i was reading around wagonstuff and that post with the vote here is like

sheep is just doing the same thing they did last game i think where they called someone super towny but the reasoning wasn't like, great
i think in the other game it wasn't as strong as that post which makes it weirder that they have like just abandoned that viewpoint to vote here

I think this just makes no sense as a read on me, out of all the posts I have

in that game, I never really attempted to explain the townread on the person (litten?). the person was a consensus obvious town and was literally never doubted from day 2 until endgame, so there was no reason to explain anything.

fire is just a not even remotely comparable scenario?


feels like forcing a meta read after she hyped up "im so excited to sort sheep using the meta I have!" and just mildly opportunistic lol.

also this isn't the point of the meta read it's that you made a read that was very poorly-fleshed out in that you rely not on in game content but like, the "vibes" of someone and how they feel and how you think other people should be perceiving them

and then you like just kind of make that and there's some posting between here and now but i dont get how the posts you made lead you to voting fire for the strength of that read you started with

it's the kind of read that you can make but step away imo because you dont have logical reasons, i know that not every read is going to be a logical one and i solve a lot with vibes but given the past game and this one it feels like youre doing the same thing and then i happened to join and go "hm!" lol

[sheepsaysmeep]

meh ok that makes some sense

but yeah I just read a lot on vibes as a player

a lot of the playerlist there including the villagers read on vibes. like they made a towncore of 4 people and almost never bothered explaining any of it. so it feels weird to conclude from that game "sheep making vibe reads could be a wolf!sheep thing"

[implosion]

fire you should join the aureal wagon tho

I remember reading your post about how you weren't voting cuz the towncore should decide or something and thinking it was kinda goofy. wagons are still fun and important. even If I think u should die today a counterwagon existing on aureal is very nice and productive and feels good

This is kind of a weird attitude to have when there's momentum toward you. It's like weirdly nonchalant - like, a fire lim or even wagon is definitely not inevitable right now. Idk if I think it's meaningful I'm just not really sure what the point of this post is.

I think aureal is wolfier but I am aboard the train that everyone else left that was fire lim feels more right here

aureal vote was a) I didnt want to put fire at e-1, b) symbolic vote / pressure for being wolfy (reason I think fire/aureal felt w/w is cuz I dont get why fire still refuses to vote aureal lol. I think village!fire would have a bit more eagerness at the possibility aureal somehow gets limmed over him today. or, eagerness to pressure aureal. but instead he's just compounding on condemning himself to death today, doing basically nothing with aureal, feels like he actively wants aureal not to die before him)

This is also an odd post. I'm definitely starting to confbias into seeing things sheep is saying as being scummy but like, why the explanation? I might have missed someone asking but if not then like it's pretty obvious why he switched from Aureal to fire now. I also just, don't really buy this fire/Auriel w/w spiel. It feels kind of not fully thought out - like I feel like fire-scum w/ Aureal would be plenty happy to have a chance to distance from Aureal in this gamestate if it seems like fire's going down? I don't really have a strong take on whether or not they're w/w but Idk this reasoning just feels like throwing something out there and hoping it sticks.

Still going over past couple pages.

[sheepsaysmeep]

idk

I never townread fire very hard

first it was like "I do not townread this guy for the record. but it's weird that the scumread is based on his predecessor, and then he's done a lot and idk if the push even acknowledges the thing he's done."

I listed traditionally towny things to make a logical point but I didnt actually townread him

then we kept mindmelding a lot and saying exact same things, and I was like gah feels like a villager tbh.

and then stuff happened, like for example flips + all his posting today, and yeah my perspective has changed and im like fuck I want to just kill u anyway

which it feels wolfy to call that a wolfy thing just because it's making an inherently weak read that can change and then it changed. that feels common

[sheepsaysmeep]

idk

I never townread fire very hard

first it was like "I do not townread this guy for the record. but it's weird that the scumread is based on his predecessor, and then he's done a lot and idk if the push even acknowledges the thing he's done."

I listed traditionally towny things to make a logical point but I didnt actually townread him

then we kept mindmelding a lot and saying exact same things, and I was like gah feels like a villager tbh.

and then stuff happened, like for example flips + all his posting today, and yeah my perspective has changed and im like fuck I want to just kill u anyway

which it feels wolfy to call that a wolfy thing just because it's making an inherently weak read that can change and then it changed. that feels common

this is to ydrasse

[Ydrasse]

meh ok that makes some sense

but yeah I just read a lot on vibes as a player

a lot of the playerlist there including the villagers read on vibes. like they made a towncore of 4 people and almost never bothered explaining any of it. so it feels weird to conclude from that game "sheep making vibe reads could be a wolf!sheep thing"

that isn't really the conclusion either

the people who made a towncore aren't making reads from what ive seen that they espouse strongly and then take a step back from and then another until they're comfortable enough voting those people, i dont agree with them entirely but i dont seem them contradicting the things they said

the problem is like youre making vibe reads that feel to me (when you use language like "extremely villagery" and "pro-town" and "best gut feels" etc) like they're word salad and that you can step away from because they don't have an anchor as in "fire said this thing, and voted this, and it was Good" but you can still seem like you have these sorts of feelings and thoughts

[fireisredsir]

ydra have you seen sheep town

[sheepsaysmeep]

ydra have you seen sheep town

ya facts good question

[Ydrasse]

i want to say yes ive spectated a game but i dont remember which one so lol

[implosion]

All caught up.

All I want is a clever SE to solve the game and tell me who to eliminate today, but I guess that's not happening
This game makes me tingly like acupuncture rn

I think I have made up my mind that I want a sheep lim today now fwiw. It's <48 hours to deadline and I think sheep feels like the most sensible place for the lim to land to me, right now. Limming sheep ticks a lot of boxes to me. he's one of skitter's scumreads; I don't think I've seen anyone else talk about this as a box to tick but I think it has value and she has experience with him. She called him out on d2 for starting to coast, I didn't agree with her at the time, but he never really stopped doing that. I feel like this trajectory over time of having lots of interactive and original takes d1 and getting highly townread and coasting is frankly pretty +scum on its own. He's never really faced serious pressure all game, in spite of this. We talk a lot about how fire keeps not actually getting limmed... but like, there's a lot of goddamn slots in this game that we could say that about. sheep also lived n1 despite being pretty widely townread (i think? maybe i'm just projecting how I felt but I am town so at least some town were super-townreading him), which is not a

major

reason but is still circumstantial. His posting today, on the whole, doesn't paint a picture in my head of someone who's really feeling invested in figuring out the game and trying to fit different theories together. It feels like he makes a lot of posts where he wants to look like he's doing that but it often doesn't feel like there's a genuine consideration behind that, it feels like it's just a constructed narrative.

I think he's the best lim and I don't think I'm likely to change my mind on it before deadline.

[implosion]

If sheep flips town, I think Ydrasse-scum stock possibly goes up

[fireisredsir]

i don't think sheep flipping scum makes ydra-scum stocks go down