Open 878: Scarfolk Council | The End

[fireisredsir]

maybe a little bit i guess

[sheepsaysmeep]

fire you should join the aureal wagon tho

I remember reading your post about how you weren't voting cuz the towncore should decide or something and thinking it was kinda goofy. wagons are still fun and important. even If I think u should die today a counterwagon existing on aureal is very nice and productive and feels good

This is kind of a weird attitude to have when there's momentum toward you. It's like weirdly nonchalant - like, a fire lim or even wagon is definitely not inevitable right now. Idk if I think it's meaningful I'm just not really sure what the point of this post is.

have been spending the whole day thinking he should be putting a vote on aureal but just forgot to say so lol

I think aureal is wolfier but I am aboard the train that everyone else left that was fire lim feels more right here

aureal vote was a) I didnt want to put fire at e-1, b) symbolic vote / pressure for being wolfy (reason I think fire/aureal felt w/w is cuz I dont get why fire still refuses to vote aureal lol. I think village!fire would have a bit more eagerness at the possibility aureal somehow gets limmed over him today. or, eagerness to pressure aureal. but instead he's just compounding on condemning himself to death today, doing basically nothing with aureal, feels like he actively wants aureal not to die before him)

This is also an odd post. I'm definitely starting to confbias into seeing things sheep is saying as being scummy but like, why the explanation? I might have missed someone asking but if not then like it's pretty obvious why he switched from Aureal to fire now. I also just, don't really buy this fire/Auriel w/w spiel. It feels kind of not fully thought out - like I feel like fire-scum w/ Aureal would be plenty happy to have a chance to distance from Aureal in this gamestate if it seems like fire's going down? I don't really have a strong take on whether or not they're w/w but Idk this reasoning just feels like throwing something out there and hoping it sticks.

Still going over past couple pages.

I dont rly remember why I explained myself there lol. I was in the middle of a sequence of posts explaining why I think we should lim fire today despite thinking aureal is actually slightly wolfier. so feels like an appropriate insertion.

and I think generally like, not responding to micro-level things has come back to bite me, if that makes sense? like ive felt miffed by the push on me because it feels like theres nothing to respond to because rather than being about my overall approach to the game, it's more like people were like this post and that post were wolfy and I hadn't felt a need to address those things and now I think we'll lose via my lim. so im probably sort of overcompensating

I dont really get what youre saying about fire/aureal w/w? I think theyre doing exactly what youre describing, taking the chance to distance from Aureal in this gamestate. fire thinks he's guaranteed to die, so he wants to do something useful with his day, so he decides to distance from aureal. so he talks about how aureal is so wolfy but does everything EXCEPT something actually consequential, which is vote and potentially start a wagon; this is what distancing looks like. idk like fire/aureal has felt intuitive to me throughout the day, the post ur quoting isnt a fundamental basis of that view or something I was just adding on

[fireisredsir]

if i think that my vote can push aureal over the edge and also multiple people are saying we're not aligned

then why tf do i not just do that and take it to endgame myself

it's not like i would rather crawl my way 90% out of a hole and then be like "oop nvm i really wanted aureal to be the one living here!!"

[fireisredsir]

i don't know how you think there's ever a world where i'm w/w with aureal and i want to die before her that badly

[sheepsaysmeep]

All caught up.

All I want is a clever SE to solve the game and tell me who to eliminate today, but I guess that's not happening
This game makes me tingly like acupuncture rn

I think I have made up my mind that I want a sheep lim today now fwiw. It's <48 hours to deadline and I think sheep feels like the most sensible place for the lim to land to me, right now. Limming sheep ticks a lot of boxes to me. he's one of skitter's scumreads; I don't think I've seen anyone else talk about this as a box to tick but I think it has value and she has experience with him. She called him out on d2 for starting to coast, I didn't agree with her at the time, but he never really stopped doing that. I feel like this trajectory over time of having lots of interactive and original takes d1 and getting highly townread and coasting is frankly pretty +scum on its own. He's never really faced serious pressure all game, in spite of this. We talk a lot about how fire keeps not actually getting limmed... but like, there's a lot of goddamn slots in this game that we could say that about. sheep also lived n1 despite being pretty widely townread (i think? maybe i'm just projecting how I felt but I am town so at least some town were super-townreading him), which is not a

major

reason but is still circumstantial. His posting today, on the whole, doesn't paint a picture in my head of someone who's really feeling invested in figuring out the game and trying to fit different theories together. It feels like he makes a lot of posts where he wants to look like he's doing that but it often doesn't feel like there's a genuine consideration behind that, it feels like it's just a constructed narrative.

I think he's the best lim and I don't think I'm likely to change my mind on it before deadline.

idk this tilts me a little meh I just feel like a lot of it is just untrue I think

u could have put these thoughts about me out there for discussion earlier lol

-me ticking the skitter legacy box has been talked for the record
-I dont think skitter, nor anyone, can be considered a more credible reader of me than average. I stopped playing for a couple years and then was no longer prepubescent age and then I suddenly came back now and was playing mafia fairly differently.
-"never really stopped coasting" is untrue that's the one that bothers me. I think I have been like, superbly pro-town in terms of activity throughout the last two day phases. like beyond I think ive been here constantly reading everything and giving fresh decent thoughts about it in contradiction to what u say, ive often been like bruh this is dead that's bad and poked around with questions and posts to try to change that. in a way that I think is pro-town. like im active enough that I can be frustrated with people who are less active; like ive done the best I can with what I have and I wont get more accurate by further reading and engaging until the people who actually dropped off after being townread do stuff. which is something ive been bugged by all day
-"We talk a lot about how fire keeps not actually getting limmed... but like, there's a lot of goddamn slots in this game that we could say that about." obviously no one compares to fire's situation. he is the only one here who would be so easily limmed. (I would be sorta easily limmed, but it's not the same). but whoever the wolf/wolves are clearly do not really want this lim, because no one really wants this lim right now. which is weird to me because if I was a wolf I think fire lim would be my top choice. that is the idea I randomly threw out
-I dont think not being night 1 kill matters at all, esp in a gamestate where we were probably off the mark day 1. most n1 kills feel weirdly unexpected. people pr hunt, my day 1 reads were probably bad, I stopped playing in like the last 48 hours, blah blah. personally guessed u would be the kill
-I dunno, I get why me just throwing out random theories isnt super believable lol meh. tho calling it a narrative isnt right lol im not pushing anything vaguely cohesive

this just feels like a culmination of untrue things or things that just dont cohesively work together as a case to lim someone. I dont know how to explain.. like, if you take this to someone without context I dont think these are "wow this person is quite likely to flip wolf" things. they just feel like weird arbitrary things. I feel like we have more actively slots that would be great to resolve

[sheepsaysmeep]

if i think that my vote can push aureal over the edge and also multiple people are saying we're not aligned

then why tf do i not just do that and take it to endgame myself

it's not like i would rather crawl my way 90% out of a hole and then be like "oop nvm i really wanted aureal to be the one living here!!"

idk I could easily see it being a "shit that wasnt the plan" situation

u seem literally 100% guaranteed to die today

"ok let's bus each other so aureal u can look better and win the game, are u ready"

aureal dies

"oh shit fuck that wasnt supposed to happen" negative feeling wolves like things going to plan

idk I'll think about it lol

[sheepsaysmeep]

idk

I think if I die today we 90% lose because this game is in a shitstate where we would have to not lim people I think could be wolf and you wouldnt be surprised at all. and those people are not going to exit that state

but then im left here sitting with literally not much more to do. I feel like my grasp of everyone and their chance of being wolf are solid and at their max quality that they could be. dunn will not engage with the material in the game, ceph will not engage with the material in the game, menal cant yet, ydrasse will need beyond this day phase, implosion is trying but sometimes cant really. so im sitting here with tons of extra time for this game but literally like "I dont think looking back will help or make me any more accurate, the learning curve flattened." and then im being accused of coasting

idk what the point of this post is lol, like me excusing myself, I dont blame myself if a loss comes like I think it will cuz there was something unwinnable/unsolvable about this game in terms of its mass lethargy. a lesson to be learned here about game dynamic and drowning people out or making it hard to read. it would just be especially shit if that loss came from me dying when I think I played fairly well. I still feel like it was a bar set too high cuz wow he can fake good tone as scum or something. and crazy how legit stemming from the "coasting" thing it is when the whole game mood was never less bad than me lol

I guess still any complaint I have is still valid for fire too lmao this game is just weird

[sheepsaysmeep]

ceph writes his case on alianna/delta/fire slot

Vote Count 2.1

This is another page from the hospital records of the anonymous little girl who was found wandering Scarfolk in 1976 (more here).

The colouring book itself was produced by Scarfolk Council Health Board Service Council and was distributed throughout hospitals, schools and junior covens.

While providing children with a fun creative pastime, it also subtly alerted them to the dangers of horrific diseases such as rabies and bed wetting, instilling in the children a deep-seated fear of foreigners, close relatives, harmless household objects, animals, vegetables shaped like animals, and belly buttons (see Barbara the omphalophobic office hand puppet).

---

Aisa (1):

sheepsaysmeep

Dunnstral (1):

Aisa

Cephrir (1):

skitter30

skitter30 (1):

Cephrir

Not voting (7):

Dunnstral, Egix96, implosion, MegAzumarill, Menalque, Alianna, Aureal

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to launch.

Deadline:

(expired on 2023-06-13 14:00:00)

Notes:

• Seeking a replacement for Alianna.

then egix/ydrasse posts his own reasoning and votes fire/delta slot:

Deltabreedy replaces Alianna.

Oop, missed this

VOTE: Delta

VOTE: Deltabreedy

VOTE: Delta

Vote Count 2.2

Scarfolk Council had a few problems with outsiders, or “Scarfnots” as they were known, interfering in town affairs throughout the 1970s, so it developed a scheme to encourage civic discretion.

The severity of punishment for a “loose tongue” more or less guaranteed obedience, though a few Black Spot cards were issued.

For example, four year old Jeremy Chapped inadvertently discussed with his “Scarfnot” trepanning teacher the sudden, inexplicable appearances of ancient megaliths in schools and community centres, and found himself facing capital punishment.

In lieu of this penalty he pushed an unloved aunt in the path of a speeding hovercraft for which he received not only a cub scout badge, but also a £5 book token from the mayor.

---

Deltabreedy (3):

Egix96, Dunnstral, Cephrir

Dunnstral (2):

Aisa, Aureal

Aisa (1):

sheepsaysmeep

Cephrir (1):

skitter30

Not voting (4):

implosion, MegAzumarill, Menalque, Deltabreedy

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to launch.

Deadline:

(expired on 2023-06-13 14:00:00)

then delta subs out for fire

a take of mine is that 0 of these slots are w/w with fire lol

would not fuel piling onto your dead-slot wolf partner while it's awaiting replacement

and then it just sits there the whole day phase

[sheepsaysmeep]

which just leaves aureal and towncore and then it sorta becomes hard to find solid teammates for fire?

idfk

[sheepsaysmeep]

dunn just parks on fire all day after that

I just do not really see it as bussing

think wolf prefers to make an effort to save partner there because the basis for the delta push was so weak and because fire seems like a good enough wolf

[sheepsaysmeep]

fire w:

fire/aureal
or fire/aureal/ a deeeeeepwolf. but then I think today would have been much different. fire would simply not dedicate that much effort to the game, and the deep wolf would pummel fire because he doesnt care if fire lives (struggling wolfteam prefers that fire lives)

fire v:

aureal-ceph-ydrasse-dunn find the villager idfk what to do with that lol

I probably trust him on dunn but he said he's not actually fuckin superconfident I wish he was

ydrasse has csf-cred

ceph has some positive things I guess I would just first demolish aureal in fire v world lol

I guess aureal overlaps for me regardless ??

[sheepsaysmeep]

what about the gamestate makes you concerned about me being town?

For the last couple of days, I've been getting more confident that you were scum because of the growing resistance to the wagon. Could be scum playing a long patient game, but I feel like in those conditions I would make a nice obvious scapegoat for a fire miselim, being the person who noticeably changed their mind about you.

And then suddenly I became the top wagon there.

That makes me wonder whether that's because we're both town so it doesn't really matter to them which of us gets pushed here. Obviously some resistance to your wagon is town, so they may have decided to try this route instead. After all, my townflip here would make you look thaaaaat much worse, and it wouldn't be hard for scum to yank their artificial support for you even if town still isn't sure.

u still need to explain this making literally no sense imo lolo

[Aureal]

I... am not sure what's so confusing there. And I'm a little grumpy that you were perfectly happy to sit around yesterday and watch me and fire bicker, acting like you knew what he was saying, using that lack of understanding as reason to scumread me.

So how about you tell me what exactly it is that you don't follow in there.

[sheepsaysmeep]

u were never even top wagon I think lol

idk it literally just does not make sense to me

u become top wagon so scum dont care who gets limmed today? I dont get what the post is saying about WHy that's MOre likely than something like fire is scum, wolves care about the lim and prefer you

all I see is

"gamestate has given me a nagging feeling fire is town"
"why?"
"ehh well I realized it could be possible"

[sheepsaysmeep]

I do not understand what the logic is

[Aureal]

u were never even top wagon I think lol

Should be Ceph, sheep, Aisa as opposed to Menalque, Aureal as of implosion's unvote in 2008

idk it literally just does not make sense to me

u become top wagon so scum dont care who gets limmed today? I dont get what the post is saying about WHy that's MOre likely than something like fire is scum, wolves care about the lim and prefer you

all I see is

"gamestate has given me a nagging feeling fire is town"
"why?"
"ehh well I realized it could be possible"

Uh, sorta, yes? The gamestate changed and my confidence dropped because of the change. I didn't see why wolves would resist the fire wagon so much if he was town. Becoming a viable counterwagon can kinda change that calculus.

[implosion]

and I think generally like, not responding to micro-level things has come back to bite me, if that makes sense? like ive felt miffed by the push on me because it feels like theres nothing to respond to because rather than being about my overall approach to the game, it's more like people were like this post and that post were wolfy and I hadn't felt a need to address those things and now I think we'll lose via my lim. so im probably sort of overcompensating

Most of the actual reason I'm scumreading you isn't the individual posts I'm quoting. They're just bits and bobs.

Spoiler: slightly meandering sheep response, not actually important

I dont really get what youre saying about fire/aureal w/w? I think theyre doing exactly what youre describing, taking the chance to distance from Aureal in this gamestate. fire thinks he's guaranteed to die, so he wants to do something useful with his day, so he decides to distance from aureal. so he talks about how aureal is so wolfy but does everything EXCEPT something actually consequential, which is vote and potentially start a wagon; this is what distancing looks like. idk like fire/aureal has felt intuitive to me throughout the day, the post ur quoting isnt a fundamental basis of that view or something I was just adding on

I mean, this isn't what you'd said in your post that I'm responding to. I get what you're saying here, but there you said:

reason I think fire/aureal felt w/w is cuz I dont get why fire still refuses to vote aureal lol.

I.e. the reason fire/aureal felt w/w is because fire isn't voting Aureal and is instead just tanking the lim. In other more suggestive words, because there's an additional opportunity for fire to distance from Aureal by voting her, that fire is refusing to take.... like your logic here just feels constructed in order to get to a conclusion, idk. Shouldn't doomed scum fire probably want to vote for Aureal rather than doing this half-hearted pushing but refusing to vote that will look goddamn terrible on flip (or at least probably would feel that way)? I feel like fire is a better player than that and yeah you can invoke wifom or whatever but like idk I don't see how your motivating reason for your read can be "they're scum bc fire is distancing" and also say the sentence "reason I think it's w/w is bc fire refuses to vote aureal".

Like I understand the idea of fos a buddy vote a townie that it seems like you're invoking here but that idea is absolutely inapplicable to fire in this gamestate, who has been teetering on death row all day. the scum utility of fos a buddy vote a townie is that they get to both stay alive for longer and also get some distancing cred; if the person doing that is immediately flipped, then well, they just get that interaction instantly analyzed.

u could have put these thoughts about me out there for discussion earlier lol

I could have, had I only had them as coherently earlier. Alas

-I dont think skitter, nor anyone, can be considered a more credible reader of me than average. I stopped playing for a couple years and then was no longer prepubescent age and then I suddenly came back now and was playing mafia fairly differently.

It's not about you, it's about skitter being considered a generally competent town player with generally good reads

-"never really stopped coasting" is untrue that's the one that bothers me. I think I have been like, superbly pro-town in terms of activity throughout the last two day phases. like beyond I think ive been here constantly reading everything and giving fresh decent thoughts about it in contradiction to what u say, ive often been like bruh this is dead that's bad and poked around with questions and posts to try to change that. in a way that I think is pro-town. like im active enough that I can be frustrated with people who are less active; like ive done the best I can with what I have and I wont get more accurate by further reading and engaging until the people who actually dropped off after being townread do stuff. which is something ive been bugged by all day

This is fair enough; coasting is probably not the best way to describe how I feel. I feel like there were certain ~things~ you did on d1 that I felt like I could townread you for, and I feel like you haven't been able to replicate those ~things~. Contrast Aisa who has consistently reaffirmed my read through continuing to make posts that affirm the reason I townread her. I think when I describe you as coasting, it's in some sense only applicable if you're scum - like, the fact that you've been unable to replicate whatever content on d1 was causing me to hard townread you makes me feel like you're scum who put in a ton of effort on d1 and then has been coasting since then in the sense that you haven't been able to put in whatever type of effort you'd need to replicate that content. The way you formed or changed reads, the way you reacted to things in the moment, the way you were playing together with people in the moment. That feels like it's been relatively lacking since d1 and today you've been more analyzing from a step away from the action. If you're town then maybe it's just inaccurate to call you coasting because you have been putting in effort today.

[implosion]

I think if I die today we 90% lose because this game is in a shitstate where we would have to not lim people I think could be wolf and you wouldnt be surprised at all. and those people are not going to exit that state

The problem is that I sort of agree with Aisa that we're moderately doomed if we lim any townie.

Also to be clear I don't mean to disrespect your game in any way when I call it coasting (even if you are scum), I think you've played a perfectly good game as town or as scum. It feels like in this game no matter who I vote for it's going to be a person who has genuinely good reasons why they shouldn't be limmed. It's a tight game and a hard call. And obviously my reads up to today haven't exactly been stellar but well, the world is what it is.

[Dunnstral]

i would like to hear from dunn about ydra bc i think despite my general wariness of her i am finding it hard not to believe what she's pointing out and i would like to at least hear an alternate viewpoint

What do you mean by this?

[Dunnstral]

but then im left here sitting with literally not much more to do. I feel like my grasp of everyone and their chance of being wolf are solid and at their max quality that they could be. dunn will not engage with the material in the game, ceph will not engage with the material in the game, menal cant yet, ydrasse will need beyond this day phase, implosion is trying but sometimes cant really. so im sitting here with tons of extra time for this game but literally like "I dont think looking back will help or make me any more accurate, the learning curve flattened." and then im being accused of coasting

What am I not engaging with?

[Dunnstral]

Fire are you talking about their push on sheep?
I don't know what to think but It's pretty late into the days discussion to think there can't be bussing. Maybe they're not aligned though and that puts the spotlight back on Aureal being with one of them potentially

[fireisredsir]

i would like to hear from dunn about ydra bc i think despite my general wariness of her i am finding it hard not to believe what she's pointing out and i would like to at least hear an alternate viewpoint

What do you mean by this?

basically just you had a scumread on the slot + you know ydra, wanted to hear if you had any thoughts on her entrance in general and her approach to things so far

do you still think she's the best lim here? if so can you sell people on it a little bit? and if not who's your second choice?

[implosion]

We have 1 day and 6 hours. We need to start coalescing.

[sheepsaysmeep]

but then im left here sitting with literally not much more to do. I feel like my grasp of everyone and their chance of being wolf are solid and at their max quality that they could be. dunn will not engage with the material in the game, ceph will not engage with the material in the game, menal cant yet, ydrasse will need beyond this day phase, implosion is trying but sometimes cant really. so im sitting here with tons of extra time for this game but literally like "I dont think looking back will help or make me any more accurate, the learning curve flattened." and then im being accused of coasting

What am I not engaging with?

your worldview of "the wolfteam is within these 5 players" is based on like peoples' treatments of egix slot rather than his posting and then a moment of insight a week ago and then u are completely stagnant otherwise

[sheepsaysmeep]

We have 1 day and 6 hours. We need to start coalescing.

VOTE: aureal

meh