Mini Normal 2303 [Postgame!!!!]

[sheepsaysmeep]

Day 2 Votecount 1

Cook (3):

iamveryhappy, ItalianoVD, Flower

ItalianoVD (2):

Cook, Something_Smart

Not Voting (5):

Invisibility, fireisredsir, T3, Black, KatyKimFanClub

With 10 players alive, it takes 6 votes to reach majority.

There are (expired on 2023-06-30 13:10:00) remaining.

[Cook]

damn, mod sniped 2000

pretend i have FoS pointed at both flower and italiano

honestly could be a scumteam

[Black]

Hmm. Ok. Let me think on this. I'm not going to reveal right now so just give it some time

Black if you tracked S_S staying home can you come out with this information now before I get into a tunnel here?

-Nameless

Fire stayed home

[Flower]

Fire stayed home

Cool, fire locktown

You really think Cook and I are

this

incompetent as scum? Or what exactly do you think our grand plan is?

1193 was a reaction test for Black since we're not 100% she's real. If she'd said you stayed home I would have locktowned the both of you.

Mafia Tracker

makes 0 sense so either Black is town and I can trust her to tell the truth or Black is scum with Cook. In the scum!Black case:

• I don't think Black has the balls to greencheck her partner so Cook/Black/S_S doesn't make sense as the team (Therefore you're Green)
  
• If the team was Cook/Black/not S_S then it'd be weird for her to clear you instead of just letting me tunnel (And she'd know I'm a pretty notorious tunneler so therefore she's Green)

-A

---

S_S the only mechheads still alive are you and happy so I'll try to be as clear and explicit as I can be here, if you assume a town!Flower game I'm confident the both of you will be able to figure out what I'm trying to say here (Well maybe not happy, he's English Second Language so it might get lost in translation).

If Cook is town here then this setup wouldn't have passed review because it's reasonably possible to mechanically solve the game by the start of D3 in such a way where scum instantly lose if they don't win one of three specific 1v1's against (Two against a PR, one against a VT) assuming they didn't find and kill Black or Cook or another specific person n2 or earlier. This is still the case even if no scum dies until MeLo/ELo
Assumptions being made in that proof (Note that I don't believe all these are the case but most are either reasonable assumptions or the assumptions that would minimize Towns ability to mechanically lock the game):

1. Italiano is scum (i.e. Neapolitan check isn't considered)
   
2. Ausuka was a Named Townie (i.e. no Town Watcher, Scum Watcher can be assumed for the setup if you like since it makes no difference)
   
3. Ausuka is treated like Vanilla Town (i.e. not mechanically cleared just because she claims Backup Watcher, Rolecop can clear her but it's not required for the proof)
   
4. The Vig is 1-shot (2-shot means the game is completely mechanically locked without even the chance to win with a 1v1)
   
5. The Vig can die before MeLo/ELo (Makes no difference actually since there's still a 1v1 at the end that scum have to win, although it changes which 1v1 occurs)
   
6. The Vig doesn't shoot Black or Cook or another specific person (For the proof I assumed Vig shot VT, shooting scum also works though it might change which 1v1 occurs)
   
7. If Cook is Town then Black is Town (
   Mafia Tracker
   makes 0 sense)
   
8. Black and Cook don't check the same person and all of their checks stay alive (Makes it harder for scum to win but it's something that would have been brought up in review)
   
9. Black and Cook only check town (If they checked scum then trying to make the setup work would imply that they get a red check, which would hurt scum more than a green check)
   
10. Cook checks Black before D3 (Required for the mechanical lock, but realistically a Town Tracker claim with multiple clears would look pretty legit

Think outside the box for this one and understand that I get why you thought Cook was mechanically possible with the information you had.

-Nameless

[Something_Smart]

Why does mafia tracker make 0 sense? I've definitely seen them before.

[Something_Smart]

There's definitely not a scum watcher. But why are you assuming there's no town watcher?

Red herring backup is rare, you should need extraordinary evidence to believe it's the most likely scenario.

[Something_Smart]

I wish you would just post the steps of the proof instead of posting the assumptions and making me figure out what you mean. It's not that I necessarily couldn't if I tried, but it seems unnecessary.

[Flower]

Spoiler: More Mech

There's definitely not a scum watcher. But why are you assuming there's no town watcher?

Red herring backup is rare, you should need extraordinary evidence to believe it's the most likely scenario.

If there's a Town Watcher the lock gets even stronger, that was me giving scum a chance

Why does mafia tracker make 0 sense? I've definitely seen them before.

sheeps only other modded game was Mini Normal 2053 back in 2019, you

can

make Mafia Tracker work but is it a role combo you'd reasonable expect a newer mod to run?

I wish you would just post the steps of the proof instead of posting the assumptions and making me figure out what you mean. It's not that I necessarily couldn't if I tried, but it seems unnecessary.

Me too but sadly in this case it's pretty necessary, sorry

[Flower]

Spoiler: More Mech

There's definitely not a scum watcher. But why are you assuming there's no town watcher?

Red herring backup is rare, you should need extraordinary evidence to believe it's the most likely scenario.

If there's a Town Watcher the lock gets even stronger, that was me giving scum a chance

Why does mafia tracker make 0 sense? I've definitely seen them before.

sheeps only other modded game was Mini Normal 2053 back in 2019, you

can

make Mafia Tracker work but is it a role combo you'd reasonable expect a newer mod to run?

I wish you would just post the steps of the proof instead of posting the assumptions and making me figure out what you mean. It's not that I necessarily couldn't if I tried, but it seems unnecessary.

Me too but sadly in this case it's pretty necessary, sorry

Spoiler: Even More Mech

I will say that you're focusing on the wrong things, just assume the assumptions are true and figure out how I'd force scum into a 1v1.

-Nameless

[KatyKimFanClub]

S_S the only mechheads still alive are you and happy so I'll try to be as clear and explicit as I can be here, if you assume a town!Flower game I'm confident the both of you will be able to figure out what I'm trying to say here (Well maybe not happy, he's English Second Language so it might get lost in translation).

-Nameless

What are you trying to say?

[fireisredsir]

Hmm. Ok. Let me think on this. I'm not going to reveal right now so just give it some time

Black if you tracked S_S staying home can you come out with this information now before I get into a tunnel here?

-Nameless

Fire stayed home

i don't think anyone expects this to be fake lol but might as well confirm that yes i did

ngl i am getting flashbacks to hollow knight where that turned into a mechfest+me being soft cleared and i just had no idea how to play in that gamestate and kinda threw

i will try not to do that this time zzzzzzz

[Flower]

i don't think anyone expects this to be fake lol but might as well confirm that yes i did

ngl i am getting flashbacks to hollow knight where that turned into a mechfest+me being soft cleared and i just had no idea how to play in that gamestate and kinda threw

i will try not to do that this time zzzzzzz

We can move away from mech then. Given that Ausuka + Hu Tao were both town what do we think about the wagons that were happening at the end of D1?

-A

[KatyKimFanClub]

I mean this is kind of obvious but it makes me dislike Cook.

[fireisredsir]

my initial reaction was thinking that scum probably had no reason to be especially active in shaping things near the end of the day if both wagons were town

like, at the very least no need to take action to expose themselves

which is why idk why scum cook would vote ausuka at the end there. even if you believe it makes no sense from her as town to think ausuka could be scum, there's no benefit to her as scum to do that

[KatyKimFanClub]

Ausuka was a more powerful role though so that's already a reason.

[fireisredsir]

i guess that's probably true, especially if that was the scum shot then they really wanted to get rid of ausuka?

i haven't gone back and reread end of day post flips but there's a lot there and i would like to do that

[Flower]

my initial reaction was thinking that scum probably had no reason to be especially active in shaping things near the end of the day if both wagons were town

like, at the very least no need to take action to expose themselves

which is why idk why scum cook would vote ausuka at the end there. even if you believe it makes no sense from her as town to think ausuka could be scum, there's no benefit to her as scum to do that

Realistically speaking outside of Black I don't think anyone on wagon had a clear reason to be voting Ausuka instead of just it being a case of "I hate the other wagon even more" or "It's almost deadline and I don't want to no-lim". Ausuka making it to D2 basically guarantees she doesn't ever get limmed, especially with Black looking like she was getting out of her tunnel

-A

[fireisredsir]

I mean this is kind of obvious but it makes me dislike Cook.

can you elaborate

[KatyKimFanClub]

I mean this is kind of obvious but it makes me dislike Cook.

can you elaborate

Cook had votes on Ausuka. Italiano, and Hu Tao at the end of day 1. I understand there's an argument she's trying trying to stay alive but now that we know she wasn't ever the only town investigative role I am suspicious.

I am very high on medication.

[KatyKimFanClub]

I mean this is kind of obvious but it makes me dislike Cook.

can you elaborate

Cook had votes on Ausuka. Italiano, and Hu Tao at the end of day 1. I understand there's an argument she's trying trying to stay alive but now that we know she wasn't ever the only town investigative role I am suspicious.

I am very high on medication.

[ItalianoVD]

So Cook is basically confscum and I’m annoyed that y’all can’t see this. I mean she changed her claim from bulletproof to ascetic at a time that was extremely convenient for her. Flower’s worldview made the most sense to me because it’s true. I knew some wacky nonsense was gonna happen mechanically. It does every time I’m a pr.

Fire, what are you on?

Flower came to the realization that if I was scum I was probably fakeclaiming, and that's the difference.

Prior to that they thought I would/could be true claiming which is also a reasonable assumption. The logic checks out to me.

[ItalianoVD]

Ugh, this is why I hate this game sometimes. I targeted Black last not and my result was “not a vanilla townie”.

Haha, of course you did! What a wacky coincidence.

VOTE: Italiano

Yeah I’m annoyed and frustrated by it, but if I was scum I’d know how bad it’d look for me and I’d just claimed I was blocked.

And Black was one of the most important slots to resolve, and one of the most useful to potentially clear.

[ItalianoVD]

If Cook is town, Flower and IVD are scum

If Cook is scum, I think IVD is town and Flower is probably town too

There's no world where Cook's town here, go re-read Ausukas mechposting where she says Cook's scum trueclaiming if there's a vig in the game

-Nameless

Why does scum-Cook tell everyone who the tracker is so the watcher knows who to be on?

Bruh, why does town-Cook out the tracker in the first place? And if you think I’m scum and Cook is town, you really believe that there would be a Tracker, a Watcher, a Backup Watcher, a Vig, and a Rolecop?

I mean I’m bad at mechanics, but not that bad, that’s crazy.

I mean I thought the only other scenario that possibly makes sense is if Black is scum with Cook, but I kinda did away with that idea. Cook is just scum here.

[Flower]

Bruh, why does town-Cook out the tracker in the first place? And if you think I’m scum and Cook is town, you really believe that there would be a Tracker, a Watcher, a Backup Watcher, a Vig, and a Rolecop?

I mean I’m bad at mechanics, but not that bad, that’s crazy.

I mean I thought the only other scenario that possibly makes sense is if Black is scum with Cook, but I kinda did away with that idea. Cook is just scum here.

You're not gonna convince people with mech because the only people still alive that do mech are happy, S_S, and us. Everyone elses eyes have glazed over.

Why arent more people bothered with Cook claiming 1-Shot BP Rolecop with Ausuka pointing out that if there's a vig then Cook's probably trueclaiming scum and then after the vig shoots and Ausuka flips town her claim suddenly changes to one that isn't a blatant scumclaim

-A

[ItalianoVD]

Why arent more people bothered with Cook claiming 1-Shot BP Rolecop with Ausuka pointing out that if there's a vig then Cook's probably trueclaiming scum and then after the vig shoots and Ausuka flips town her claim suddenly changes to one that isn't a blatant scumclaim

-A

Yes. Sometimes the most obvious answer is the right one. Smh.