Mini Normal 2304: Conway's Game Of Life [GAME OVER!]

[Doctor Drew]

I disagree about the setting up lims thing. idk, it's probably not scummy of you, but I think "at least one mafia in these people" or "these ppl could be partners" is like insanely ridiculously common in early pages. for a lot of people it's just how they express reads, + if anything it's towny to me just for having complex thoughts lol. like you said, it's like page 5 and everything is based off of so little, no one actually thinks theyre setting up multiple lims in practicality

Saying that 3 pages in seems very forced. When I had literally had no more than 15 words maybe

You don't have to say much to say you are scum.

It definitely is a vibe read, but was definitely the first real 'hmm, hold on a sec' moment.

Same with Bella being informed.

At the very least a good place as a jumping off point to find scum.

Okay fine. What's your read on bob?

Right now don't have one, haven't had a lot of time to dedicate to the game these last couple days......let me do a quick iso since you so kindly asked about them.

[Doctor Drew]

I like Espeonage so far for being town. I've had that thought before of scum doing the lining up thing.

What makes you think that Espeonage is town. Is it just one thought he had and if so what is that specific thought as he is the top poster

Bob I literally explained this in the post you quoted...this reads as pretending to look busy and pretending to scumhunt.

VOTE: bob

No you explained that you think Espeonage was town because he had a thought that you would have as town but this was after Espeonage had a great many thoughts. I want to know which thought exactly it was

The thought that scum likes to line up elims. It's not something scum seems to think about especially early on. If that clarification helps

Yes it does. My gut says your town

Even your vote on me though misguided does feel like omgus town. But most votes this early are pretty much a shot in the dark

Well that was an easy iso lol.

Why is he calling the vote on him OMGUS? This really does feel like he is informed actually, like he knows you are town.....and is trying to discredit your vote as just 'a random shot in the dark' but going out of his way not to call you scummy in any way.

Hu you sonuva bitch, you have my sheep here

VOTE: Bob

[bob3141]

I like Espeonage so far for being town. I've had that thought before of scum doing the lining up thing.

What makes you think that Espeonage is town. Is it just one thought he had and if so what is that specific thought as he is the top poster

Bob I literally explained this in the post you quoted...this reads as pretending to look busy and pretending to scumhunt.

VOTE: bob

No you explained that you think Espeonage was town because he had a thought that you would have as town but this was after Espeonage had a great many thoughts. I want to know which thought exactly it was

The thought that scum likes to line up elims. It's not something scum seems to think about especially early on. If that clarification helps

Yes it does. My gut says your town

Even your vote on me though misguided does feel like

omgus town

. But most votes this early are pretty much a shot in the dark

Um how? You never stated you scumread me? Again it feels like these aren't real reads

Doesnt change that i get very much get that impression from you. The only person to directly question so far ends up being scum read by you. So my gut says you are very much a player thats prone to OMGUS. Hence, fact that i think your OMGUS Town player. Added to the fact you fail to fully read any of my posts (even though they were short) tells me that your responding in knee yerk reaction. I always scum tends to be more calculating and actual have impression that they actual full understood the post even if they end up clearly misrepresenting it.

[bob3141]

I like Espeonage so far for being town. I've had that thought before of scum doing the lining up thing.

What makes you think that Espeonage is town. Is it just one thought he had and if so what is that specific thought as he is the top poster

Bob I literally explained this in the post you quoted...this reads as pretending to look busy and pretending to scumhunt.

VOTE: bob

No you explained that you think Espeonage was town because he had a thought that you would have as town but this was after Espeonage had a great many thoughts. I want to know which thought exactly it was

The thought that scum likes to line up elims. It's not something scum seems to think about especially early on. If that clarification helps

Yes it does. My gut says your town

Even your vote on me though misguided does feel like omgus town. But most votes this early are pretty much a shot in the dark

Well that was an easy iso lol.

Why is he calling the vote on him OMGUS? This really does feel like he is informed actually, like he knows you are town.....and is trying to discredit your vote as just 'a random shot in the dark' but going out of his way not to call you scummy in any way.

Hu you sonuva bitch, you have my sheep here

VOTE: Bob

Were as this looks far more scummy response

Clearly they understood what i actual said but go out of their way to misrepresent inorder to justify sheepign your vote.

First he connects two entirly seperate conjectures. The first that im not using OMGUS in stand way, even when its from a player that hasnt played mafia game in 3 years. Second trys to imply basely that im informed based on no info. And trys to use that first conjecture to justify his unrelated second conjecture

Secondly he jumps on the last sentance and goes out of his way to misquote it too. what i actualy said below

But most votes this early

are pretty much a shot in the dark

see how he adds random and cuts out the generalisation that every vote so far is based on little information. Hence the shot in the dark. (Do i really need to explain the phrase) In general such action come from scum more than town. Instead of seeing a post that refers to every vote so far he trys and make it look like it refers only to Hu Vote to push his unsupported conjecture.

town thought path for vote - reason >Vote

scums - Vote > reason

[humaneatingmonkey]

do you have other reads bob, on the other players, and would you respond to my question... you might have skipped that part.

[Random Nurse]

I'll be back in awhile.

Working. Again.

[Quiet Owl]

peregrine how much mafia experience do you have

same question to quiet owl I think

VOTE: bob3141

science

unsure how this is relevant. i join games here roughly once every four months when i feel like i haven't been questioning my life choices enough lately.
you can probably get an idea of my experience from my two hundred-odd posts compared to most people's several thousand here.

[Quiet Owl]

I disagree about the setting up lims thing. idk, it's probably not scummy of you, but I think "at least one mafia in these people" or "these ppl could be partners" is like insanely ridiculously common in early pages. for a lot of people it's just how they express reads, + if anything it's towny to me just for having complex thoughts lol. like you said, it's like page 5 and everything is based off of so little, no one actually thinks theyre setting up multiple lims in practicality

Disagree with this. I don't think it is common to state there is mafia within 2 players at the start of the game. I don't recall seeing people "express reads" that way either.

i have seen people try to call scumteams really early on. i did this once. generally people get the supposed team completely wrong though, and someone with experience shouldn't be doing that.

[Quiet Owl]

dr drew seems very disengaged from the game. his posts are just kinda vaguely following the thread and what everyone else is saying, rather than original thoughts. i'm not sure if he's just busy with life or if he's deliberately lurking.

it's weird that he's swinging around calling people informed, first bella and now bob. why hunt for the informed rather than the mafia?

[Quiet Owl]

hu and bob seems like town vs town. having looked closely at their interactions, drew's behaviour looks even weirder. a really really awkward pocketing attempt maybe?

[humaneatingmonkey]

in this case being informed is the scumtell because scum would be informed on who's town and who isn't. would you disagree?
is there anything you want dr drew to engage on that makes you feel like he's missing opportunities to give his thoughts on?

[humaneatingmonkey]

hu and bob seems like town vs town

would you elaborate?

[Quiet Owl]

in this case being informed is the scumtell because scum would be informed on who's town and who isn't. would you disagree?
is there anything you want dr drew to engage on that makes you feel like he's missing opportunities to give his thoughts on?

oh i agree, it just strikes me as a bizarre way of phrasing it. suppose i could go look at past games he's played to see if that's how he usually speaks.

at the moment i can't think of anything specifically that drew has missed. what stood out to me was that he mainly was just agreeing with / paraphrasing things that other people had said.

though his response to the remainder of this post could be interesting.

"Why is he calling the vote on him OMGUS?"

because Hu's response was to vote the first person to lightly pressure them?

"...like he knows you are town..."

weird phrasing. seems like stirring the pot / seeding paranoia.

"is trying to discredit you"

hey it's the same phrasing i used earlier! but this is being directed towards someone else, to encourage them to attack, while i was directly attacking someone to generate interesting content.

"but going out of his way not to call you scummy in any way."

NAI? yeah mafia does try and distance themselves from eliminations. but also this is the same weird phrasing i mentioned earlier.

[Quiet Owl]

hu and bob seems like town vs town

would you elaborate?

bob didn't read hu's post here properly, cue grumpiness from hu about having to repeat themselves. it is odd that hu insists that bob poking them for an answer is a scumtell, but i don't feel like that's alignment indicative.

I like Espeonage so far for being town. I've had that thought before of scum doing the lining up thing.

What makes you think that Espeonage is town. Is it just one thought he had and if so what is that specific thought as he is the top poster

Bob I literally explained this in the post you quoted...this reads as pretending to look busy and pretending to scumhunt.

VOTE: bob

No you explained that you think Espeonage was town because he had a thought that you would have as town but this was after Espeonage had a great many thoughts. I want to know which thought exactly it was

The thought that scum likes to line up elims. It's not something scum seems to think about especially early on. If that clarification helps

Yes it does. My gut says your town

Even your vote on me though misguided does feel like omgus town. But most votes this early are pretty much a shot in the dark

[Peregrine]

Good morning!!!

I’m unsure if Drew’s play currently comes from mafia! We very recently finished a game where we were mafia together and in that my impression of Drew was that he was a lot more passive early on and not intently rocking the boat, which seems different than his reading and then jumping straight to voting!!

I think the wording that he uses is potentially pocket-y but I don’t feel strongly in that direction!

I also think that Bob has a decent chance to be town as well and will elaborate either in a bit if I want to fight mobile quoting for later when I am home!!

[Peregrine]

Quiet’s recent posting is not great either in my opinion! While I do not think there should be a great amount of confidence in very early reads and posting the way they have treated Drew and Hu feels very cagey and suggestive in their language choice in a way that… I feel mafia may use because it does not explicitly accuse!! (Repeatedly calling things odd, weird or NAI which ends up with a lot of analysis not going anywhere!)

It feels like they are preparing a push to eliminate if not now than later on Drew that I currently would not want to happen!!

[Save The Dragons]

im reading the game again

I don't think that quiet owl's aggro-ness comes from scum, same for random nurse. i think it's likely tvt to get scrappy this early.

espeonage's accusation that hem is lining up lims is a little weird, i think that's extremely misinterpreting what hem said, but againt that could be town.

this game is moving pretty fast. i feel like a couple people have said a bit of nothing these first few pages, but that includes me since i was away.

this is up to page 3

page 4: 83 is kind of weird and i like sheep for calling it out. i don't know yet if i'm satisfied with the explanations in 85. especially regarding bella, and the high equity one of esp/hu is scum. disagree with sheep who seems okay with them.

i kind of like espeonage in page 4 and 5. this is more of a gut read but it feels like they're town, even if i don't agree that calling out two names == setting up elims.

not a fan of bob's posts

6 onward i like dunnstral so far this game

i think i'm here, dark green being the towniest

Bellaphant

Doctor Drew

Random Nurse

bob3141

Dunnstral

Peregrine

Espeonage

Quiet Owl

Not_Mafia

sheepsaysmeep

Hu Tao

humaneatingmonkey

VOTE: Dr. Drew for now

[KittyTacky]

Flavor 1.2

A Brief History of CGOL

Conway was interested in a problem presented in the 1940s by renowned mathematician John von Neumann, who tried to find a hypothetical machine that could build copies of itself and succeeded when he found a mathematical model for such a machine with very complicated rules on a rectangular grid. The Game of Life emerged as Conway's successful attempt to simplify von Neumann's ideas.

The game made its first public appearance in the October 1970 issue of Scientific American, in Martin Gardner's "Mathematical Games" column, under the title of The fantastic combinations of John Conway's new solitaire game "life". From a theoretical point of view, it is interesting because it has the power of a universal Turing machine: that is, anything that can be computed algorithmically can be computed within Conway's Game of Life. Gardner wrote:

The game made Conway instantly famous, but it also opened up a whole new field of mathematical research, the field of cellular automata ... Because of Life's analogies with the rise, fall and alterations of a society of living organisms, it belongs to a growing class of what are called 'simulation games' (games that resemble real life processes)

Ever since its publication, Conway's Game of Life has attracted much interest because of the surprising ways in which the patterns can evolve. Life is an example of emergence and self-organization. It is interesting for physicists, biologists, economists, mathematicians, philosophers, generative scientists and others to observe the way that complex patterns can emerge from the implementation of very simple rules. The game can also serve as a didactic analogy, used to convey the somewhat counterintuitive notion that "design" and "organization" can spontaneously emerge in the absence of a designer. For example, philosopher and cognitive scientist Daniel C. Dennett has used the analog of Conway's Life "universe" extensively to illustrate the possible evolution of complex philosophical constructs, such as consciousness and free will, from the relatively simple set of deterministic physical laws governing our own universe.

The popularity of Conway's Life was helped by its coming into being just in time for a new generation of inexpensive minicomputers which were being released into the market, meaning that the game could be run for hours on these machines which were otherwise unused at night. In this respect it foreshadowed the later popularity of computer-generated fractals. For many, Life was simply a programming challenge; a fun way to waste CPU cycles. For some, however, Life had more philosophical connotations. It developed a cult following through the 1970s and beyond; current developments have gone so far as to create theoretic emulations of computer systems within the confines of a Life board.

Conway chose his rules carefully, after considerable experimentation, to meet three criteria:

There should be no initial pattern for which there is a simple proof that the population can grow without limit.
There should be initial patterns that apparently do grow without limit.
There should be simple initial patterns that grow and change for a considerable period of time before coming to an end in the following possible ways:

Fading away completely (from overcrowding or from becoming too sparse); or
Settling into a stable configuration that remains unchanged thereafter, or entering an oscillating phase in which they repeat an endless cycle of two or more periods.

Source: LifeWiki

Vote Count 1.2

With 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to eliminate.

humaneatingmonkey

(3): bob3141, Random Nurse, Espeonage

bob3141

(3): Hu Tao, sheepsaysmeep, Doctor Drew

Espeonage

(2): Peregrine, humaneatingmonkey

Not_Mafia

(2): Quiet Owl, Not_Mafia

Quiet Owl

(1): Dunnstral

Doctor Drew

(1): Save The Dragons

Not Voting

(1): Bellaphant

Deadline:

(expired on 2023-07-04 10:00:00).

Mod notes:

To hell with small flavor. Walls of text galore! I do hope yall are enjoying the flavor though and it's not total nonsense to you.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Hi STD, great to hear from you.

Can you elaborate more on Espe being town? What I'm getting is your reads on Espe are all intuition... which is counter to my intuition.
Espe wasn't actually being scrappy early, and in fact was self-aware that being scrappy early leads to TvT. It's not even a misinterpretation of what I'm saying (which is: I wondered WHY he wasn't engaging even though he seemed as if he had a lot to say about Night Owl's performance, and we're still in early game), but the motivation he assigned to me around what I did and the exaggeration of me as "fighting for the leader spot" seems pretty malicious to me.

There is also weirdness around saying that I'm lining up elims with saying that both of them are partners -- but sheep has already called out that this is only a valid observation if he believes one of them is flipping scum.

I also haven't seen anything from Dunnstral that would make me think he's town, and already you're rating him so high. What am I missing about him?

And what do you think of sheep, Hu, Peregrine? You have them as yellows, and I have them as leaning green.

[sheepsaysmeep]

VOTE: espeonage

I feel like bob overly responding to / addressing the votes on him on this page is towny cuz scum would be too self-conscious about it lol. like writing that many paragraphs concerning your two voters is almost "too scummy to be scum". scum would avoid

I agree that drew's vote was bum but drew is still probably town. "let me go take a look, hmmm, ok I'll sheep you" is +town

[sheepsaysmeep]

I like peregrine as town

I agree that I am not into quiet owl recent posting. mainly I dont like calling hu/bob v/v here, even if I can totally see it being v/v. it's a generally wolfy assertion to make unless something is like really blazingly obvious v/v (I do not think this is)

in this case being informed is the scumtell because scum would be informed on who's town and who isn't. would you disagree?
is there anything you want dr drew to engage on that makes you feel like he's missing opportunities to give his thoughts on?

oh i agree, it just strikes me as a bizarre way of phrasing it. suppose i could go look at past games he's played to see if that's how he usually speaks.

this moment also just strikes me as particularly wolf

[Save The Dragons]

i think the posts espeonage is making seem more off the cuff and less calculated.

Dunnstral's a difficult read for me so take it with a grain of salt, it just feels different from scum dunnstral. dunnstral in TM was kind of slinking in the background and here dunn feels more engaged.

sheep hu and peregrine i want more from before i decide

[bob3141]

do you have other reads bob, on the other players, and would you respond to my question... you might have skipped that part.

You mean the timing thing. Felt like gamestat manipulation though still unsure if its scum or town motivated game state manipulation your doing. Or just my paranoia.


Yep have other reads but focusing on town hunting at the moment.

Hu, Pere and espe im think are town plus owl possibly.


Oh and i doubt based on odds that Pere and Drew rolled the scum team again. There either t/t or s/t.

[Dunnstral]

you can probably get an idea of my experience from my two hundred-odd posts compared to most people's several thousand here.

Spoiler:

dr drew seems very disengaged from the game. his posts are just kinda vaguely following the thread and what everyone else is saying, rather than original thoughts. i'm not sure if he's just busy with life or if he's deliberately lurking.

it's weird that he's swinging around calling people informed, first bella and now bob. why hunt for the informed rather than the mafia?

I'm not sure how you can say they are lurking. They seem more engaged than myself at least, and perhaps several other players. I do think they are quick to point fingers though.

[Dunnstral]

Dunnstral's a difficult read for me so take it with a grain of salt, it just feels different from scum dunnstral. dunnstral in TM was kind of slinking in the background and here dunn feels more engaged.

Eh... I find this read sort of suspect. You are comparing a full game to 7 posts in this one, one to the mod and one saying to use "Elimination". It just feels like this read is a little forced.

I’m unsure if Drew’s play currently comes from mafia! We very recently finished a game where we were mafia together and in that my impression of Drew was that he was a lot more passive early on and not intently rocking the boat, which seems different than his reading and then jumping straight to voting!!

This seems like a good reason to hold off on voting Dr Drew.

----

VOTE: Hu Tao

This one is just a feeling