Mini Normal 2304: Conway's Game Of Life [GAME OVER!]

[sheepsaysmeep]

idk I dont have much to add

I think HEM is pushing espeonage for basically the exact things im thinking (makes her pretty confident town for me blah blah) but also means I prob havent talked about it as much I should have

I just do not buy many of his takes idk. calling me bad town did feel like an attempt to discredit his wagon because I think it just makes no sense as an assertion from everyone's posts this game objectively. the original HEM take felt weird when I thought he himself was trying to establish himself as a leadery person. etc, bunch of thoughts here and there ping me

[sheepsaysmeep]

I +1 that random nurse catchup was villagery. when I read it more deeply I liked it less but I still think they are just villager

[sheepsaysmeep]

random nurse's aggression is probably villager

What makes you think that's aggression?

idk, you made things immediately very serious on literally the first page in a way I think comes very much mainly from town. it's aggressive in terms of jumping the gun on serious content and in terms of toward quiet owl, putting him under fire that he doesnt want to be in and I think both are things wolves wouldnt do there

I think owl start is slightly more likely wolf.

OK, but why exactly?

I talked about this in the same post right under the line you quoted

what makes me bad town here

I think ive contributed relatively substantially

Contribution isn't AI though.

I havent been saying it's AI

I think espeonage trying to employ the supposed fact that I wasnt contributing was weird

[sheepsaysmeep]

I dunno

I think the parts of nurse posting that are directed to me are pretty wolfy lol they feel like trying to force a scumread but struggling to

I think all other parts of nurse posting are very villagery

[sheepsaysmeep]

sheepsaysmeep - town
Doctor Drew - towny
humaneatingmonkey - town
Peregrine - towny but maybe it's just the good vibes lmaoo
Random Nurse - towny
bob3141 - towny, but it's almost a "too wolfy to be wolf" read so it's a weird area
Dunnstral - ever slightly townlean I guess

Bellaphant - idk
Not_Mafia - no clue
Hu Tao - he's fine but sort of disappointing/underwhelming and maybe that's wolfy idk please go closer to your full potential
Save The Dragons - pings me a little
Espeonage - scummy I think
Quiet Owl - scummy

[bob3141]

sheep how do you explain no counter wagon espeonage since you very much see the wagon so far as all town. Of course there are pushes on some of those one it. owl pushign against nurse, dragon you and espeonage has pushed against HEM.

I find it hard to beleive that if im wrong about espeonage being town that the current lack off energy in wagonomics forming is just becuase the team is espeonage, Bellaphant and Not_mafia.

What do you think of Dragons Vote on you which is the latest vote development since espeonage hit 4 votes.

[sheepsaysmeep]

to answer the dragons part, I disliked the vote on me, but I dont think it makes sense as a wolf partner with espeonage. because im probably not a viable wagon that would happen today; if STD were going to try to start a counterwagon to save his partner, he'd probably target someone more limmable

idk what I think about the first part. I generally don't give much credence to the "Dead air dead villager" argument. you do actually raise a decent point that makes me a little paranoid. but like, I still easily see it being wolf; the townreads of mine that are on the wagon are like, some of the most active players in the game with the strongest presence, so it's possible that wolves just.. are demotivated and semi-given-up about it idk lol. I think it's too hard to tell with a) so much inactivity and b) still not being very close to deadline (I think things will change when we get closer)

[humaneatingmonkey]

bob walk me through your wagon analysis and i'll walk you through mine.

let's say Espe is scum - do you think all three of them will combine into one wagon in case Espe flips scum?

for me, obviously not.. right? so of course, they'll probably scatter. in this situation, espe is still on me - so there are only two people making that effort into creating new wagons. now... how many counterwagons have been made in the past days, and how many of them make you think they're actually hitting scum?

So far, there's been you. Would you claim mafia?
Then there's Hu Tao. What's your read on Hu Tao?
Then there's a sheep counterwagon forming. What's your read on sheep?

So now it's your turn bob. Walk me through your wagonomics.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Oh! And there's Doctor Drew and Quiet Owl.

In fact, I'd say we're in a gamestate that I would expect if Espeonage was actually scum. There's a LOT of options you see. Players are still shopping. Nothing set in stone.

Lastly, can you give your thoughts on me, Peregrine, and Random Nurse? Do you think any of us are scum?

[bob3141]

HEM you really do go out of your away to push anyone that points any flaw in espe wagon. If you are town are you really ignoring the fact that you could be wrong and that scum are doing mixture vanity voting and inactive. Whith maybe no more than one scum on espe. Why do you think you have not seen any real pivot of you if he isnt town? Instead he is focused on you which would actual indicated that your interactions would be svs as he is self proclaimed busser

If you ask why no more than one, although wagon has some energy it doesnt feel like it has the energy of two scum skew natural propagation of wagon. P.s. wanted to use a fancy word even if doesnt 100% fit


One thing Espe is certianly right about is that your going out of your way to control the narative. In respone to me getting sheeps view on dragons odd vote on sheep. You make two big posts directed towards me

Of HEM, Peregrine, and Random Nurse if feel no more than one is scum as really do not think more than one scum is on that wagon. and that wagon is pere, sheep, Nurse and you.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I haven't pushed you?
When has he said he's a self-proclaimed busser?

I just wanted to talk my man. Can we?

[bob3141]

Difference between pushing as scum and simply pushing against anothers ideas. ive seen town do it and scum do it. but doesnt chnage that you heavily responding to anything that runs counter to espe is scum. As your 2 two posts were in response to a question to sheep which was also proceded by one to dragon. Dragon vote is odd, i can certainly see him not voting espe based on his read list but if he was to move his vote of drew i would of expected it to move to me first. He paints me and drew most likely to be scum yet he goes to one his neut reads.

one that is actively pushing agaisnt espe rather natural progression of his reads which would be to vote me. I just dont get it


in and old game scum pt. his meta could of changed since was many years ago (2019) around the time i still played but pretty much says he has tendancy to bus day one

[bob3141]

Micro 920 - Mafia PT it 3 years old so his play style might have changed

[humaneatingmonkey]

but doesnt chnage that you heavily responding to anything that runs counter to espe is scum.

Well that's kinda what the game's about, isn't it? You have your ideas. I have mine. We talk it out. Why does this bother you?

in and old game scum pt. his meta could of changed since was many years ago (2019) around the time i still played but pretty much says he has tendancy to bus day one

You played with him before?

Let's start over. Instead of you snapping at me, can we discuss our reads? Read #232 and #233 again and imagine I'm Mr. Rogers or something.

[bob3141]

Doesnt bother me but does raise my eye. As i said ive seen it in town and scum.


Think several times in past but hard to remember who was scum and who was town but was just part of my usual dive on past games. ehe has nothing do with me looking at random chance

Scum rarely combine into one wagon but have seen it so its never something to rule out. I remember my first game were the entire scum team was combining with the entire mason team to power lynch the town lol

most of your options of wagosn really are only just lone votes.

sheep is just dragon if dragon was scum espe wagon could go either way. Either it's scum trying chainsaw (whatever right term is) or a vanity vote so when town espe flips he presses town on espe wagon.

Hu reminds me of the reaction MT once had to me after one of my reaction tests/ clarifications. That time i wrongly tunneled him for a while. drew who joined him im unceratin on, per seems to vouch for him so either per is scum trying to pocket drew or per is town and see drew playign different to a recent scum game.

Nurse im drawing a blank on. his surface level comment raised an eye so i know he is experinced. His vote espe has value for both his alignment from their point of view.

hadnt really noticed much direct at drew and on owl early wagon that went no where but mostly switched to espe. which would imply simple town motivated switch there. so the break of his wagon really isnt AI.


Can you tell me what you think of Dragons vote on sheep? As those posts untimatly that result in your two posts

[humaneatingmonkey]

I'm not scumreading any of sheep, peregrine, and random nurse. MAYBE if scum bussed, it's between sheepsaysmeep (weird interplay between him and Espe) or Peregrine (Peregrine was heavy on the pocketing language on me). so i'm looking for one or two scum struggling to build a counterwagon by taking potshots on the most vulnerable slots.

If StD is town, I can understand StD seeing it, agreeing with the "surface level contribution" of sheep, and voting that way because he's not sold on Espeonage as scum. Sure. I can see the POV. Heavily disagree with it all of it, but I can see it. On the other hand if I'm looking for partners, StD is doing precisely what I expect a partner to do. But he's not the only one.

But let's be clear. I'm not "pushing against ideas". I didn't just talk to StD because he disagrees with me. Most of the players do. I talked with him because I understand other people have other reads and I discuss my reads with other people - like what I'm doing now - because it gives me a 2-for-1 bang-for-buck return on my time: I get to hear more from someone's POV and I get better discussion out of the game.

[Espeonage]

Also I would ask that we not call other people’s play bad or poor!! There’s no need to do that even if it’s a strategy, and I think there are better ways to approach talking about someone!!!!!

I agree. I also read the situation as scum!Espe calling the players on his wagon bad as a strategy. Perhaps to discredit.

First, I'm not sure it's believable to be calling sheep bad town here. sheep should be suspicious in his eyes for his position in Espe's wagon -- sheep actually generates new ideas to fuel Espe's doom.

Heck, I feel suspicious about sheep's place in Espe's wagon. Scum has historically gathered behind me to push me into eliminating town. But I'm not sure that's what's happening here.

I also find his reframing of his push as unbelievable. He went from describing me as experienced scum pace setter and narrative controller... to a bad player that he doesn't want anyone to listen to because of ego? So does that mean he sees me - his primary vote and suspect - as town now? Help me here, as I'm not sure why he'd reframe his position otherwise. Does it mean he doesn't really see me as scum?

Nevertheless, I will not remove my vote. At this point, I heard enough. I will give the town a favor by not continuing to cross-examine Espe as that might be endless spam and will make an environment where scum can cover up easily. Although I hope those who disagree with me will try their best to dissuade me and those who agree with me to vote with me.

I didn't reframe you as a bad player. I reframed it as me having no respect for players I haven't seen be amazing.

[Doctor Drew]

I dunno

I think the parts of nurse posting that are directed to me are pretty wolfy lol they feel like trying to force a scumread but struggling to

I think all other parts of nurse posting are very villagery

I am having a hard time sussing out your read on them.

And isn't trying to force a scum read pretty damn.....uh, damning?

[KittyTacky]

Mh. 8 posts skip is gonna be fine.

[KittyTacky]

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[KittyTacky]

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[KittyTacky]

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[KittyTacky]

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[KittyTacky]

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[KittyTacky]

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