Open 879: Fire and More Fire [game over]

[Radical Rat]

Lol, never would have guessed Meuh was scum from all the wagon hopping at the end of the day

Don't remember your vote reflecting that bit of wisdom my dear doctor

Well I was dealing with a bit of self preservation, admittedly.....but I don't think there was a big wave of support to lim Meuh yesterday, even after I posted the quotes of them vote hopping.

Hindsight and all, but after their flip it did seem pretty obvious in retrospect.

Could it be you're feeling killer's remorse?

[Bingle]

unless i missed something - why are you offering reads on the people on your wagon? what is this?

Why would I not analyze the biggest wagon as literally the only person who knows for sure it's on town? What? Did you get into SG's acid, osuka?

that post is just sort of shit and it makes no sense to me. if your analysis of the biggest wagon on none other than yourself is “everyone’s town,

they have good reasons

, fucking rainbows and sunshine”, isn’t that just one step short of a scumclaim? you somehow simultaneously made yourself look worse, the wagon look better, and did all of that while inexplicably adding zero meaningful content other than the fact that you clearly don’t have good (or real?) reads on any of the people voting you

I'll take completely made up bullshit for 500 Alex.

see bingle, the big difference between the two of us is that i regularly call things stupid but

i can always articulate and make clear to everyone the reasons for which it is stupid.

whereas you’ve been flinging shit everywhere the entire time whenever you’re faced with something you disagree with, but you’ve yet to make any overt display of complex, higher-order thought.

Receipts? Cause you haven't done that. You've said I've said things I haven't said, sure, but that's not at all articulating reasons.

unless i missed something - why are you offering reads on the people on your wagon? what is this?

Why would I not analyze the biggest wagon as literally the only person who knows for sure it's on town? What? Did you get into SG's acid, osuka?

that post is just sort of shit and it makes no sense to me. if your analysis of the biggest wagon on none other than yourself is “everyone’s town, they have good reasons, fucking rainbows and sunshine”, isn’t that just one step short of a scumclaim? you somehow simultaneously made yourself look worse, the wagon look better, and did all of that while inexplicably adding zero meaningful content other than the fact that you clearly don’t have good (or real?) reads on any of the people voting you

This is the post in question.

You say that my post sucks because... I think the four people on my wagon have shown reasonable progressions for being on my wagon.

You characterize that as "everyone's town, they have good reasons, fucking rainbows and sunshine" which is itself a gross misrep of y'know, actual reasons why none of the votes are particularly scummy to me. Then you say that thinking the votes on me aren't from scum is "one step short of a scumclaim.

What part of that isn't an implication that people scumreading you can't be town?

none of it is an implication that you can't townread someone that scumreads you. if that's what you got from that, something has gone badly wrong.

i don't really give a shit why you townread any of them - it's not even the fact that you do townread any of them at all. it's the fact that

you admit that they have valid reasons

to want to get rid of you and you

do NOTHING to address any of their points

. instead, you seem to satisfy yourself with "oh well i guess fair enough". that's ridiculous regardless of your alignment - either that's a huge gamble as scum (one that you don't need to take d1), or it's just piss poor town play.

if you have further questions, then please

go back and read it until you have an accurate understanding of what was said

Both provably false. One provably false by being able to read English and looking at my post for longer than the lifespan of the average amoeba, one provably false by looking at literally any of my interactions with Bulge, or the post where I ask FB if he's ever caught scum me, or being able to read English to realize that the words "His case on me is that I'm not doing a thing that's NAI for me, I'm doing a thing that's NAI for me, and that I'm doing a thing that he claims isn't NAI for me based on a game he was the backup mod for, but which is notably NAI for me. I'm not really a player who can be caught via 'meta case'." are in fact reasons that FB should probably reevaluate his dumbtunnel.

it's the fact that

you admit that they have valid reasons

to want to get rid of you and you do NOTHING to address any of their points

. instead, you seem to satisfy yourself with "oh well i guess fair enough". that's ridiculous regardless of your alignment - either that's a huge gamble as scum (one that you don't need to take d1), or it's just piss poor town play.

It's cool how this is literally not true. Like... Not only not true, but requires reading literally 0% of the post you're calling out for that to be your issue with it. Wanna try again without stuffing your mouth full of cowpies first?

Alright:

First, wagon on me:

Ausuka - Primarily, voting me as

OMGUS

. I still think Ausuka isn't particularly towny, but generally her placement on my wagon isn't a really scummy one.
Firebringer - Voting me for a meta case

(and a bad one)

. His case on me is that I'm not doing a thing that's NAI for me, I'm doing a thing that's NAI for me, and that I'm doing a thing that he claims isn't NAI for me based on a game he was the backup mod for, but which is notably NAI for me. I'm not really a player who can be caught via 'meta case'. Regardless, I believe that Firebringer believes the case, which makes him a fairly strong town read.
The Bulge - Apparently, the main thrust of Bulge's scum read on me was my leading question at Ausuka. I had thought there was a significant portion to do with the mech speak accusation, but on reread it does seem very reasonable that that callout was nonspecific and not actually aimed at me.

Bulge's accusation

that it's ridiculous I would think so is, imo,

silly

, since his clarification that it wasn't actually about mechspeak was directly quoting a post about people specifically calling me out for mechspeak. The implication there, to me, was that the 388 was in fact singling me out. I don't really think that is unreasonable. Of the people voting me, I think this is the worst vote, but I don't particularly think it makes Bulge scum.
Invisibility - Vizzy's mostly been

sheeping bad cases

on me, but the way the way she's doing it doesn't scream scum to me.


Of these 4 I think there is no way there's a pair of scum and that it's unlikely that there are two different scumteams represented. Generally, despite the shit quality of each of the reads, I think they are more likely than not to actually be things the people behind them think. I vaguely agree that the wagon on me is roughly town driven.

at mcdonald’s drive thru, can’t be bothered to do quite surgery.

the justifications you have for your wagon are complete trash. omgus is the one real reason you have there and even that’s sort of weak. for the other 3, you just say they’re bad without literally any other context

try again

The "justifications I have for my wagon" is an interesting way of saying "The reasons people were voting me." Bulge and I went over the rest of his read after that post, but at that point that is what had been articulated as to why I was scum. And literally none of Ausuka/Vizzy/FB have argued that their reasons are being misrepresented, so it seems pretty obvious that I, you know, accurately represented their reasons.

like you clearly completely missed the entire explanation i had to painstakingly write after realizing that you're completely incapable of nuance, so i decided to remove nuance and we're still exactly where we started

Oh, no I definitely pointed out that you backpedaled hard from saying untrue things into saying other untrue things.

i could also go back and point out exactly why most of the """reasons""" you wrote down on that original post of yours are either wrong or just straight up nonsense, but i again can't really be bothered to do that since it's obvious that you're either not trying to understand or incapable of it, so you know fuck it

VOTE: osuka

[Bingle]

I'm also at Umlaut here, tbh. The transition from reluctance to vote me all of yesterday to being eager to vote me out for what amounts to information seems sketch as fuck.

[Firebringer]

bingle is ur towntell being an asshole or u just trying to match osuka energy here

[Firebringer]

hey drew i have problems with u today
i think i should revaluate u and ur awfully quiet in these convos right now

[Doctor Drew]

Lol, never would have guessed Meuh was scum from all the wagon hopping at the end of the day

Don't remember your vote reflecting that bit of wisdom my dear doctor

Well I was dealing with a bit of self preservation, admittedly.....but I don't think there was a big wave of support to lim Meuh yesterday, even after I posted the quotes of them vote hopping.

Hindsight and all, but after their flip it did seem pretty obvious in retrospect.

Could it be you're feeling killer's remorse?

I am feeling remorse I didn't push them more at the end of the day, but again..... hindsight.

Pre Edit: Oh no, the Whiskey Pocket is imploding

[Firebringer]

i take that back ur making a lot of arguments on osuka scum and bingle good
yeah i don't know if i believe u believe it right now

[Firebringer]

Bingle i can believe is a triggered townie. (Possibly)
you. I have questions for

[Firebringer]

GeorgeBailey demands justice

[Invisibility]

is a triggered townie a townie who is being silly due to anger and/or rage

[Firebringer]

aren't we all silly

[Doctor Drew]

hey drew i have problems with u today
i think i should revaluate u and ur awfully quiet in these convos right now

I have been working most of the day.

What convos you mean?

Pre Edit:I believe Bingle is town a whole more then Osuka town.

If you questions, just ask me

[Doctor Drew]

Yes you......questions,I am talking to you

[Invisibility]

aren't we all silly

[Firebringer]

i don't see why ur defending bingle in the way ur doing and why ur focused on osuka way u are.
it looks more like white knighting to me.

So how about we take 2 steps back and u tell me why u scumread osuka and why u townread bingle and maybe even add a dash of why these bingle/osuka fights are T/S

[Doctor Drew]

i don't see why ur defending bingle in the way ur doing and why ur focused on osuka way u are.
it looks more like white knighting to me.

So how about we take 2 steps back and u tell me why u scumread osuka and why u townread bingle and maybe even add a dash of why these bingle/osuka fights are T/S

Bingle has been the Bingle I know, especially a recent game with them where a lot of mech speak has happened. There has been a push on them because of said mech speak and the discussion around it. I was not a fan of how that grew, since I know this as mainly NAI at worst with him. And as the back and forth with Osuka has grown I see what appears to be growing frustration. You just mentioned it if being a jerk is a town tell for Bingle, and I am not used to that side of Bingle, which makes me feel like he is super frustrated and borderline pissed town.

Osuka isn't 'as' clear of a read for me. It is based off vibes from previous games where they seemed way more aggressive. It really wasn't until the back and forth got going with Bingle didn't come out, but seemed a bit manufactured. I mentioned I this Ausuka has a high probability of being scum as well, this is partly because they were in the first game I was with Osuka and they keep saying they are just as, or more aggressive here, something isn't jiving there.

Now osuka seems to be trying to back away from Bingle since if you read the tea leaves there doesn't seem to be support for their Lim at the moment. It all doesn't sit right with me.

[osuka]

alright i just played a game of valorant and this guy on my team was throwing so i must channel my rage into actually responding to whatever dumb shit bingle wrote

please hold

[osuka]

so first of all i have to say that this post will be longer than usual but that's just because i finished building a new keyboard and it's my favorite build so far. it's a delight to type on and i love it, so this time you're getting the prosaic asshole osuka instead of the short and not so sweet version. you want articulate, bingle? let's get articulatin'.

unless i missed something - why are you offering reads on the people on your wagon? what is this?

Why would I not analyze the biggest wagon as literally the only person who knows for sure it's on town? What? Did you get into SG's acid, osuka?

that post is just sort of shit and it makes no sense to me. if your analysis of the biggest wagon on none other than yourself is “everyone’s town,

they have good reasons

, fucking rainbows and sunshine”, isn’t that just one step short of a scumclaim? you somehow simultaneously made yourself look worse, the wagon look better, and did all of that while inexplicably adding zero meaningful content other than the fact that you clearly don’t have good (or real?) reads on any of the people voting you

I'll take completely made up bullshit for 500 Alex.

off the rip - i wanna point out that this isn't made up bullshit. let's look at the carfax:

Firebringer - Voting me for a meta case (and a bad one). [...] Regardless, I believe that Firebringer believes the case, which makes him a fairly strong town read.

you call this reason bad but you state that fb believes it. wouldn't that make it a "good" reason in his mind? it's clearly good enough to get him to vote you.

Ausuka - Primarily, voting me as OMGUS. I still think Ausuka isn't particularly towny, but generally her placement on my wagon isn't a really scummy one.

this is verifiably false - ausuka explained the vote in 228 and 229, and then again later in 869

The Bulge - Apparently, the main thrust of Bulge's scum read on me was my leading question at Ausuka. I had thought there was a significant portion to do with the mech speak accusation, but on reread it does seem very reasonable that that callout was nonspecific and not actually aimed at me. Bulge's accusation that it's ridiculous I would think so is, imo, silly, since his clarification that it wasn't actually about mechspeak was directly quoting a post about people specifically calling me out for mechspeak. The implication there, to me, was that the 388 was in fact singling me out. I don't really think that is unreasonable. Of the people voting me, I think this is the worst vote, but I don't particularly think it makes Bulge scum.

this is somehow simultaneously self-explanatory and circular (good job!)

this boils down to: "i thought it had to do with the mechspeak accusation, but then i realized that wasn't the case. i think it's silly that bulge thinks it's ridiculous and i ~assumed~ 388 was @me but it wasn't."

and then:

I don't really think that is unreasonable.

which is somehow, mysteriously, inexplicably, unfathomably, followed by:

Of the people voting me, I think this is the worst vote, but I don't particularly think it makes Bulge scum.

without even getting on whether invisibility was sheeping or not, i want to point out that that particular line does nothing but call the general "cases" "bad", without actually elaborating on what the cases are or why or how they are bad.

~ continued ~

[osuka]

thanks for sticking around during our commercial break. let's get back into it

on this segment, we'll be doing a breakdown a post of my own. it shouldn't have to be broken down because, unlike the post we talked about in the previous segment, it was written in clear english by someone who is capable of stringing coherent sentences together and was, in fact, not having a stroke. but what would be the fun in basic text comprehension?

that post is just sort of shit and it makes no sense to me. if your analysis of the biggest wagon on none other than yourself is “everyone’s town, they have good reasons, fucking rainbows and sunshine”, isn’t that just one step short of a scumclaim? you somehow simultaneously made yourself look worse, the wagon look better, and did all of that while inexplicably adding zero meaningful content other than the fact that you clearly don’t have good (or real?) reads on any of the people voting you

setting aside the fact that if you look up the big words in the dictionary, that should be pretty clear. let's look at a couple of specific things:

if your analysis of the biggest wagon on none other than yourself is “everyone’s town, they have good reasons, fucking rainbows and sunshine”, isn’t that just one step short of a scumclaim?

if your honest analysis of a wagon is that everyone has good reasons to be there, isn't that just enough to convince you most of the time? if you think the reasons are actually valid, regardless of whether they're objectively correct, doesnt that make them at least partially true from a given pov? your entire post boiled down to "hurrrrrr the push is bad" but without any real substance to it.

did all of that while inexplicably adding zero meaningful content other than the fact that you clearly don’t have good (or real?) reads on any of the people voting you

this is what that is in answer to:

Generally, despite the shit quality of each of the reads, I think they are more likely than not to actually be things the people behind them think. I vaguely agree that the wagon on me is roughly town driven.

~ continued ~

[Bingle]

bingle is ur towntell being an asshole or u just trying to match osuka energy here

I don't have one. My towngame and my scumgame are very similar, because I'm good at playing as scum.

[osuka]

so we've talked about how bingle struggles with understanding long sentences and how most of the things he's pointed out are actually just not in line with what was (literally) said.

in other cases, though, he just makes leaps that aren't ever going to lead you anywhere good. like this:

The "justifications I have for my wagon" is an interesting way of saying "The reasons people were voting me." Bulge and I went over the rest of his read after that post, but at that point that is what had been articulated as to why I was scum. And literally none of Ausuka/Vizzy/FB have argued that their reasons are being misrepresented, so it seems pretty obvious that I, you know, accurately represented their reasons.

this is an apocalyptically bad take. like if i exploded the planet and everyone and everything on it died the most painful death possible, that still wouldn't be as bad as this.

"they didn't address whatever horseshit i wrote so therefore it's obvious that i was right?" what the fuck? it's goddamn amateur hour

then:

Oh, no I definitely pointed out that you backpedaled hard from saying untrue things into saying other untrue things.

again, without offering anything to actually back it up.

i'll save you the trouble and i'll be bingle for a minute:
"hurrrrrrr i wrote all the reasons out in 1226"

no you didn't, guy, you just regurgitated whatever shit you threw over the fence at me when this spat started, just with a bit of different wording and a lot more shit in the quotes because somehow this keeps going back and forth. i'm honestly getting tired of reiterating what i've very clearly explained, time and again, and i'll just start linking you to dictionary entries of words you clearly don't understand. how's that for a plan?

[osuka]

anyway while bingle's off writing his wall, i'm gonna go to the bars and get fucking sloshed so i can try to forget about this fucking shitshow

might drunkpost later, stay tuned

[Bingle]

I legitimately don't know why I'm litigating osuka-scum to osuka. If anyone who isn't a colossal waste of time wants to engage me about my reasons for this read, I'm happy to oblige, but I feel like it's pretty obvious that literally all of his poking at me is bad faith.

[Merlyn]

bingle is ur towntell being an asshole or u just trying to match osuka energy here

I don't have one. My towngame and my scumgame are very similar, because I'm good at playing as scum.

I think he's being pushed pretty hard here, I'd have a hard time being nice under this kind of borderline attacking the player and not the play that's happening.

[Merlyn]

i'm too tired to argue with bingle over shit

why didn't this last lol