Weird Dreams Mafia Redux [Finished]

[Morning Tweet]

I like Dragon again for taking the 5x run the nightmare vote on the first page seriously

VOTE: Aureal

Bianco playing not carefully is towny I think

Ranger is automatically scum for putting STD at the bottom then switching him to the top when he asked nicely

i see the nightmare changed..... my first reaction is "Add everyone, use the vigilante as a second elimination" -- let me know if that is not achievable, I didn't read it all

Not sure there's an advantage to excluding people really

[usesPython]

Cult Leader Enabler is interesting, but I don't think it works unless we know the name of the cult leader role?

Kind of depends on if we can even specify variations of roles or not outside of adding modifiers.

An Enabler is linked to a specific role (such as Doctor), not types of role (such as protective); the Normal version of an Enabler is self-aware (and knows which role they enable). When the Enabler dies, all players lose the role that they are linked to, e.g. the death of a Doctor Enabler will cause every Doctor in the game (and every JOAT's Doctor ability) to become useless.

There is no requirement that the role being Enabled actually exists within the game.

[Rautherdir]

Wait if we can specify a modifier too...

Bulletproof IC, easy game

Bulletproof does not exist on this page so I'm guessing it wouldn't work that way: https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... _modifiers

[Rautherdir]

Using the vig as a second kill seems... too easy. There's almost certainly going to be something that prevents it if scum are aware of who the kill would be.

[Radical Rat]

Wait if we can specify a modifier too...

Bulletproof IC, easy game

Bulletproof does not exist on this page so I'm guessing it wouldn't work that way: https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... _modifiers

It is on this page though
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Normal_Game

[usesPython]

i see the nightmare changed..... my first reaction is "Add everyone, use the vigilante as a second elimination" -- let me know if that is not achievable, I didn't read it all

Not sure there's an advantage to excluding people really

It's achievable but Activated IC/Bulletproof IC inventions are stronger

If we're handing out IC inventions then it's theoretically optimal to exclude scum so they don't get shot but getting a correct towncore of 7 people's probably impossible so yeah better to just put in everyone

[Rautherdir]

On a similar note, cult leader enabler feels too easy. I doubt it would work as effectively as we would hope. Or maybe it would and Korina didn't account for it? The vig definitely was likely accounted for in balance though.


NOTABLY
If cult have recruit as a factional ability that would side step enablers I believe.

[biancospino]

About passive roles.

Giving out passives as inventions is a bit fuzzy. It's not even clear what a "1-shot [passive role]" means in general. For IC is ok, just make it an activated IC instead, but "activated [negative utility]" just does nothing as the invention's holder will just not activate it. It's well defined what, say, 1-shot BP means, but e.g. 1-shot X-Enabler not so much.

@mod, can the Nightmare award passive normal roles as Inventions? If yes, how does the invention version of a passive role behave exactly?

Is Vengeful considered a passive role, or an active role that acts during Twilight?

Are Bulletproof, Ascetic conidered roles or modifiers?

p-e: CL-Enabler is clearly not a normal role, why are we even talking about it

[usesPython]

p-e: CL-Enabler is clearly not a normal role, why are we even talking about it

How is CL-Enabler not a normal role? Enabler's considered a Normal role

[Rautherdir]

... oh I didn't even anticipate considering the fact they 'd be one shot. I have no idea what 1-shot encryptor or 1-shot enabler would even do.

[Radical Rat]

The problem with Enabler is that, while somewhat ambiguous here, it functions based on role name, and we don't know what that is. We do have the standardized names in our PMs too, but I don't know if that would count for an Enabler since it's just a description and not the ACTUAL role name.


P-Edit: That too, cults are explicitly non-normal

[biancospino]

p-e: CL-Enabler is clearly not a normal role, why are we even talking about it

How is CL-Enabler not a normal role? Enabler's considered a Normal role

Do you really believe that if you designed a game with a [non-normal role]-Enabler Implo would let you run it as a normal?

[Rautherdir]

Modular roles might only be normal if both components are normal.

[Rautherdir]

p-e: CL-Enabler is clearly not a normal role, why are we even talking about it

How is CL-Enabler not a normal role? Enabler's considered a Normal role

Do you really believe that if you designed a game with a [non-normal role]-Enabler Implo would let you run it as a normal?

I mean... functionally it would be a named vanilla.

[Radical Rat]

I think it pretty clearly falls under the "If I have to ask implosion" clause

[usesPython]

p-e: CL-Enabler is clearly not a normal role, why are we even talking about it

How is CL-Enabler not a normal role? Enabler's considered a Normal role

Do you really believe that if you designed a game with a [non-normal role]-Enabler Implo would let you run it as a normal?

Look just because Implo wouldn't let us run it doesn't mean it's not Normal by the rules

[Doctor Drew]

Python I blame you unfairly for all this mech talk now.

[Rautherdir]

Python I blame you unfairly for all this mech talk now.

You should be blaming me.
VOTE: Doctor Drew (No I don't actually scum read you but I'm still going to vote you for this)

[Radical Rat]

Innocent Child is an explicitly Normal role, and Bulletproof is an explicitly Normal modifier, so on paper that should be fine

[Rautherdir]

I... don't see bulletproof as a modifier, it's a passive role in my book. But we're asking korina so.

[Rautherdir]

If it affects you, the player, directly, it's a role. If it affects one of your roles, it's a modifier.

[Radical Rat]

The link I sent is the page that covers the Normal Guidelines, and if you scroll down Bulletproof is on the list of explicitly Normal modifiers

[Doctor Drew]

Python I blame you unfairly for all this mech talk now.

You should be blaming me.
VOTE: Doctor Drew (No I don't actually scum read you but I'm still going to vote you for this)

I did say I was being unfair to Python.

But I am too drunk for all this right now.

[Radical Rat]

If Korina comes back and says we can't, then that's fine, but rules as written it SHOULD work

[Rautherdir]

Waittt it isn't one modifier and one role.
It's one modifier and one

action

I'm suddenly not sure if we can even give passive roles as the action part. So maybe they would be modifiers? Or maybe we can't give them at all.