In post 330, curiouskarmadog wrote:
I also imagine, if scum was in my previous recent games...they are going to want to get me out ASAP (vanilla claim or not). once I get going, I get results.
again watch the reasons people join the wagon.
if I am around D2, ill do a solid catch up post.
I imagine human is referring to this
Meeeeh if I were scum I wouuuld want to throw out curious based off last game. I don't know if curious believes that or not but its true that i respect their play after the previous match
Meh I'm so bad with this kind of bet. Curious could totally be scum even though i get a towny impression. I fall for this literally every time
he would have had a heads-up from his mates that he's not in THAT much danger.
In post 393, humaneatingmonkey wrote:
this is clearly a vibe check. i know it was for me. and as scum, maybe he would have played it cool if there was a chance not to nuke his slot right there and then. also considering he had a reputation for not posting much and being solid in later days. he could have pulled of a gerain.
You're correct that it felt premature cause CKD could totally live this as scum, so the rationale for being VT, run up main wagon, going VLa for the weekend, all checks out + this vibe check thing
I call bullshit on your read on me. There's no way for you to judge that I'm town based on the posts that you say you judged me from.
Because how can you? How can you judge from page 12, post 291, day 1, on any of my posts that I'm not "scheming" in this game? You can't.
Yea I mean the funny thing is I think there's evidence in this game already that HEM *is* scheming. Look at how the interaction with HEM & I went where he asked me a question to divert my attention away from Tweet's posts, and then called me out for focusing on that question and not the Tweet posts. That felt SO much like scheming to me.
What I don't understand is how Roden seems to have completely missed that, unless Roden is looking for longer term scheming in which case how are you even meant to find that at this point in the game?
Human is asking Roden to prove something ridiculous ("How can you judge that I'm NOT doing trickery given my entire body of posts?"). Or maybe to put it in better words i think it's an unfairly high standard. I guess. I'm reading HEM as tryhard town focusing Roden but I can't prove he's not fcking scheming. What if that IS the scheme then wht
In post 511, OopsieDaisy wrote:
I want elaboration on the scheming thing, don't get how HEM is scummy if scheming = a townread when there's been displays of him scheming already. Don't exactly know how many people are on the wagon right now but I hope I'm not putting it in hammer range lol.
VOTE: Roden
@Oopsie
Could you lay out where human is scheming most prominently to you
..
HEM thinks he's scheming, but HEM thinks scheming is something he does as scum, Roden is perceiving HEM as towny (or at least he was) and HEM finds this weird because he IS, in fact scheming
Isn't scheming the thing HEM does as scum though? Now I'm just lost
In post 504, humaneatingmonkey wrote:
Scheming is an integral part of how you play this game. You have an idea. You plan and act. You execute.
Check and point: I had an idea that Roden might be bullshitting his read on me. I ask him questions to soften him up. I engage him and I pounce on him!
Roden was bullshitting when he made the townread!
Yea i can follow this bit, nothing about this is scheming and it's what I described as tryhard where you basically solo out one person for the way they read on you and ask them to explain it in heavy detail
Oopsy saying that HEM manipluated her into doing something which he then turned around and called scummy DEFINITLY would count as scheming to me. But I couldnt find it quickly
In post 502, humaneatingmonkey wrote:
Clidd is an arrogant bastard who doesn't want to be wrong and this tracks.
The vote was a vibecheck on whether or not clidd ran out of anything to do after curiouskarmadog's wagon died. It was a tick-tick-tick eyes-on-you type of situation. He organized that wagon, and was in shock that it dissipated so quickly and would probably no longer happen. The best thing to do was refocus on solving the rest of the game - I expected scum!clidd to keep his push of karmadog to maintain consistency and buy time to find a better way to handle the sitution.
Then I remembered that it's also equally likely that scum!clidd would have probably understood that and quickly adjust to another slot - had karmadog flipped town later.
(I don't think they're SvS, clidd wouldn't have pushed on his inactive partner if ever)
Also equally likely that town!clidd really thinks he caught scum because of course he would.
This is the kind of stuff that looks very towny to me (even though I think you're overthinking this completely). The idea of testing someone is usually flawed cause like, you have to interpret the reaction, but your interpretation could change in as short as the span of a single post. Cause like, who knows what scums wants to do aside from them
the idea of seeing whether or not clidd had something to do when curious wagon stalled is very good though and the kind of thing that seems like... "scheming" with a smart purpose
I call bullshit on your read on me. There's no way for you to judge that I'm town based on the posts that you say you judged me from.
Because how can you? How can you judge from page 12, post 291, day 1, on any of my posts that I'm not "scheming" in this game? You can't.
Yea I mean the funny thing is I think there's evidence in this game already that HEM *is* scheming. Look at how the interaction with HEM & I went where he asked me a question to divert my attention away from Tweet's posts, and then called me out for focusing on that question and not the Tweet posts. That felt SO much like scheming to me.
What I don't understand is how Roden seems to have completely missed that, unless Roden is looking for longer term scheming in which case how are you even meant to find that at this point in the game?
That's not what scheming is? That's just poking and prodding. I
f he was scheming if would be looking for multiple different angles to either manipulate you into voting how he wants, or framing what you did in a certain way so that people would vote you. Neither of those things happened.
That is more or less what I thought Oopsie was claiming HEM did. With regards to manipulating Oopsie into doing something that he would then construe as scummy. No i didnt read back
In post 498, Greeting wrote:
I'm kind of surprised that no one is concerned about this read though:
In post 291, Roden wrote:
Kinda want to town lock Tweet even though it feels a bit silly to do this early. I get the feeling she wanted to roll town and was relieved when she opened her role PM. Based off of what I'm hearing of the last mini, it might be because of that?
In post 603, Morning Tweet wrote:
Human is asking Roden to prove something ridiculous ("How can you judge that I'm NOT doing trickery given my entire body of posts?")
It is ridiculous, right? Somehow Roden did it though. He judged that I'm not doing trickery given my entire body of posts and called me town.
It's more likely they're both town although I'm not confident on that. I don't know why it particularly has to be TvS. Human is being maybe ever so slightly annoying abt it
In post 524, Roden wrote:
framing what you did in a certain way so that people would vote you. Neither of those things happened.
even now, roden? you don't feel particularly framed?
Of course I do now, but I know it's because you reached a conclusion and didn't think it through
I think it's pretty shitty play if you're scum because I don't think you make it past Day 2 if you go out of your way to mis-elim me, and I'm pretty sure scum!you would know that as well
In post 532, humaneatingmonkey wrote:
I don't know Roden. I'm particularly good as scum. I'm a fucking son of a bitch liar who lies a lot. Takutai says I'm suave.
At some point this starts to get ridiculously super villainy HEM
I dont particularly see why the way Roden had read HEM is smoking gun (other than to HEM himself).
Thanks a lot for these links Roden, it's helped inform my read a lot :]
The biggest thing I got out of these games is the sheer difference in how T/T Roden/HEM interact, and how they interact when one of them is scum. In the first two games they're very confrontational with each other and are desperate to discredit the other with their own points. In the final game, they're just chilling gamesolving together holding hands and frolicking through the fields.
Obvs I have to keep in mind these are only examples of HEM being scum in the dynamic, not Roden, but the difference is stark and the interactions between the two right now scream to me that this isn't T/T if these examples are trustworthy interpretations.
Now as to who is scum, ehhhh that's hard to call because I don't have a Roden scum/HEM town example to look at. Roden is someone who I thought came in with a read that had no basis, but by providing his explanations and straight up bringing receipts, it's clear Roden cares a lot about defending his position and I'm seeing where his confidence on HEM is coming from. If this was simply a pressure wagon, I'd be satisfied at this point and hop off.
HEM, on the other hand, was the player who went on the aggressive at Roden first, and kicked off the dynamic that makes me think this isn't TvT. Since then he's sunk his teeth in and not let go. These examples make HEM look scummy in this game with the context of these examples, but my issue is that these examples are provided by the other player in the pairing, and the person who I think is scum if HEM is town, so I'm not sure how much weight I really should be giving them?
I'm gonna do this and see what happens :]
UNVOTE: Roden VOTE: HEM
Oh god
So this is a repeat matchup? Roden is actually familiar with HEM and vice versa. That is very good to know. It makes sense that Roden would be as confident as he is then I guess -- and same with HEM
Thats really interesting that they got along as TvT. Obviously they both feel they can read the other. Hm
Does HEM tend to start the battle with Roden as scum? Roden? HEM?
I'm not going to open the other games. But this is really interesting and it complicates things. I might look at the tvt game later. I don't think it's impossible that HEM is wrong and Roden is right (So, TvT).
In post 603, Morning Tweet wrote:
Human is asking Roden to prove something ridiculous ("How can you judge that I'm NOT doing trickery given my entire body of posts?")
It is ridiculous, right? Somehow Roden did it though. He judged that I'm not doing trickery given my entire body of posts and called me town.
No. I mean demonstrating it to you is a ridiculous ask.
Its not ridiculous at all to think you're not being treacherous. At least in a vacuum
You're arguing that you're a pretty shifty guy that Roden absolutely shouldn't be able to say this abt
Roden's claiming that he can tell and thinks you're on the town side so far
It is interesting you've played as scum and town with him before and had 1v1s
But like, my point is saying that you're not being tricky isn't ridiculous. I find "How can you prove that I'm not being tricky?" as a response to that kind of overkill. How do you prove the nonexistence of something
You're asking for PROOF when Roden is explaing a read that's what doesnt make sense you can't prove someone hasn't been sus IT DOESNT MAKE SENSE
Fine. I'll shut up. I'll just scumread Roden by my lonesome. I already said my piece. If he's scum, this won't be the last time he'll slip up anyway. I'll hammer him and wagon him any chance I get.
i will read the games since i cant just rely on what other people are saying
I read one game
It was the "In the second, it was other players that caught me as scum and I already had a well-established wagon by the time he jumped on it." game i read. Yes, you are right that Roden joined the wagon at the end and it wasnt really Roden who fought with u on the last day but Roden did scumread you consistently
I skimmed through 849 you are not like this at all. you were more on the backfoot it looked like
The discussion was different it wasn't like soloing each other out it actually looks like you n Roden were asking each other questions and interacting more casually
The first day you gutread Roden as scum and then later in the game it didnt seem like there was much drama when he voted you. Your reaction was confrontational but measured, it was like a probe into why Roden was scumreading yo ubut without any "Scheming" stuff or testing or anything like this game. there wasnt really any attack on Roden
It usually seems like when you talk about Roden it's usually about him and not TO him. It's a lot different from where this game you took his read of you, found that suspicious, and then devoted all of your time to getting Roden to expand on that
But granted most of those two ISOs werent you and Roden intereacting
..
The main thing I'm getting is that you come across not like that scum game so far
There's not really anywhere where you two 1v1 at least like this that i saw.
I kind of believe that you're convinced Roden has to be lying in order to townread you. But I don't agree with that, for example Doctor Drew was absolutely convinced he could read my scumgame off of ONE game
For example the stuff I noted (You weren't fighting as hard against reads on you, you were more talking about them) probably has not very much to do with how you play differently as each alignment. I probably made that up. You mentioned Ari using a consistent emotion tell of some kind which is probably the actual truth. But I was pretty sure I noticed a difference and i'd probably convince myself i'm right if i played a few games and got it right
i can see why it might be unbelievable for Roden to townread you so quick, i just dont have the personal experience. I'm probably recounting that other game all wrong. If i got anything though it's that there aren't any pushes that remind me of this in your scum game
In post 617, Klick wrote:
Hello friends I am ready to dive back in for a bit.
Tweet are you townier on other pages than you have been on this last one?
No, this is my towniest play session thus far according to me. so i would say your perception mismatches greatly with the way i perceived myself. Which isn't unusual, probably why im not much of a scum player
Not really a slight to you just a general sentiment about trying to read people on the first day I guess? I didn't even start giving game relevant thoughts until tonight it felt like to me. So NOOWW i'm being scummy ohhhhh of course everytime when i open my stupid bat mouth and say what I actually think its unbelievable
I wasn't saying 'I found you towny earlier and your recent content is scummy'. It was more 'I'm not caught up but this last page looks scummy for Tweet, will I change my mind when I'm caught up?'
So Tweet, I should tell you. Roden should not have the confidence to tell us here that I have not been doing trickster shit. Because I do trickster shit, monkey-style.
The idea that scum!Roden wouldn't townread me here and put me on null sounds like a good reason, until you remember that people can try out new stuff and make mistakes. It was very easy to townread me then, most people townread me. He probably thought it was a novel thing to do.
I mean, I could be wrong. I don't decide alone who gets eliminated. It takes 7 to eliminate on Day 1. However, I'm so so so confident that Roden's scum here. All I ask is to be heard, which you did Morning Tweet thank you. You even read the games. If you read the other two, you'll see how massively Roden misrepresented his ability to detect me. Mwah.
