Weird Dreams Mafia Redux [Finished]

[Radical Rat]

I did have a thought in between failed attempts at sleep.

I think it's obvious scum submitted Drew here, because there's no reason Town would have done it secretly without discussion.

HOWEVER, I am considering rescinding my kneejerk reaction of wanting Drew dead, because like. SURELY scum would have known pulling something like that would put a lot of heat on the one getting confirmed, and does it really make sense to do that to a partner?

Maybe as a last-second effort before the day ends when it's too late to do anything about it, but the middle of the day like this, with everything still up in the air? It's weird, right?

what, you're on #TeamInsomnia too?! Excellent. I am having the same thoughts, it seems too wolfy to be wolf. I also don't like this: a couple of folks including me were expressing doubt on Abnegation, who said she'd get some reads done for real this time. Then suddenly she started talking about the drew notice from the mod and now she's the co-chair of the nightmare proposals with python. It's an awfully effective way to get attention of you

Cycling back to this now that VCs exist, but I don't really think it holds water. Two votes isn't really enough to be a serious threat, and the leading wagon was Rautherdir at time, and his wagon actually DID get mostly dispelled in the confusion.

But also the momentum was dying anyway, so it seems unnecessary? Definitely entering WIFOM territory now though

[Radical Rat]

HURT: Usespython's votes

VLA now until July 7th. MS stability issues.

I haven't read since my last post but I don't want a dead slot atm. I'll look after surgery but I might be high AF.

Hope everything goes well for you

[Doctor Drew]

Which to be fair I am also a little guilty of. No, the person who did this shouldn't claim yet if town, we don't need that confirmation in order to get a better picture of Drew's alignment. I don't think this confirmation alone makes Drew scum. (Probably, unless scum used it on a partner for... some weird reason. If we're in multiball that might also be a reason it could happen with Drew scum, and more likely of one.)

So probably not scum from that, though I still don't like Drew's posting more recently. Regardless the fact they got confirmed to run the nightmare shouldn't impact reads on them or be a reason to vote them on it's own.

p-edit
No, saying Radical Rat was, by asking Ranger directly if they did or didn't. That's just textbook role fishing.

I think it is far more likely scum did this, regardless of reason, than Town did this. Therefore, I think finding who did it is (probably) finding scum, and if it WAS Town that did it, they'd better have a damn good excuse.

Technically I guess that IS rolefishing, but it's... different.

I don't think it's role fishing that is coming from scum, but it is role fishing.


Hmmm. I don't feel 100% about Drew being town. But I also think he got targeted by scum with that ability. But yeah we should look elsewhere for where to vote today. Unfortunately it was usesPython and Rat that pushed Drew as scum for that, and I think both of them are town, so.

I have a tinfoily theory that I asked Ranger to put me at the top of her reads list, and then all of a sudden I am running the Nightmare.

But in a more serious tone......

I could see Ranger becuase of something she said in the Boons Ahoy dead thread(where I was scum), she said something along the lines that I made some poor Night actions(which I won't disagree with). So I could see scumRanger thinking that would translate here as me making poor Nightmare decisions.

And I could see Python thinking the same as well, if they were scum.

Problem is, isn't this all a fools game? Who actually is going to admit to putting me in to run the Nightmare?

[Merlyn]

Cycling back to this now that VCs exist, but I don't really think it holds water. Two votes isn't really enough to be a serious threat, and the leading wagon was Rautherdir at time, and his wagon actually DID get mostly dispelled in the confusion.

But also the momentum was dying anyway, so it seems unnecessary? Definitely entering WIFOM territory now though

Oh really? I didn't notice that was happening. I'll have to go take a look at where the votes stood during the whole thing.

[Merlyn]

Problem is, isn't this all a fools game?

Best summation of mafia I've heard in a while

[Radical Rat]

I think that if the one who did it is Town, they should come forward and talk about why, because from an outside perspective it makes no sense as to why Town should have done that, especially given how it worked out for you last time. So if they get caught later without fessing up, that's worse for them.

That said, I can see why Ranger's refusing to answer, and the evidence sadly just isn't strong enough for me to insist on it yet, and I'm not strong enough to win an argument with Ranger over it without that evidence. But it has taken Ranger out of my presumed Town list.

[Doctor Drew]

I think that if the one who did it is Town, they should come forward and talk about why, because from an outside perspective it makes no sense as to why Town should have done that, especially given how it worked out for you last time. So if they get caught later without fessing up, that's worse for them.

That said, I can see why Ranger's refusing to answer, and the evidence sadly just isn't strong enough for me to insist on it yet, and I'm not strong enough to win an argument with Ranger over it without that evidence. But it has taken Ranger out of my presumed Town list.

Why don't we focus on actual scum hunting?

I know I have been a bit lurky here, but you seem to be making it all about 'solving the mystery' of who made me run the Nightmare, instead of playing the game of mafia.

Like I kinda alluded to earlier, you seem fine with playing the fools game.

[Radical Rat]

So what do you want me to do then? If trying to figure out the cause and reasoning of what I believe to be a scum motivated action ISN'T scumhunting, what is?

How is this NOT "playing Mafia?"

[Rautherdir]

We don't have the information to figure it out. Whoever did it is just going to keep quiet. They likely lurked through submitting it for that matter.

[Doctor Drew]

So what do you want me to do then? If trying to figure out the cause and reasoning of what I believe to be a scum motivated action ISN'T scumhunting, what is?

How is this NOT "playing Mafia?"

How exactly are you going to find who put me in the Nightmare unless they come out and claim it?

Literally explain this to me.

I gave a little bit of my thoughts, but you seem dead set on finding out exactly who did it......in lieu of looking at the moving parts around all this.

Pre Edit: Pretty much what Rauth said.

[WhemeStar]

Drew ur a smart man

[Radical Rat]

So what do you want me to do then? If trying to figure out the cause and reasoning of what I believe to be a scum motivated action ISN'T scumhunting, what is?

How is this NOT "playing Mafia?"

How exactly are you going to find who put me in the Nightmare unless they come out and claim it?

Literally explain this to me.

I gave a little bit of my thoughts, but you seem dead set on finding out exactly who did it......in lieu of looking at the moving parts around all this.

Pre Edit: Pretty much what Rauth said.

I AM looking at the moving parts around this.

I started by narrowing a pool of likely suspects that pointed toward Ranger. Ranger refused to answer, I acknowledge that I don't have enough to push further yet, and then once the VCs went up I looked at the wagons of the time to investigate Merlyn's suggestion about it being to distract from Abnegation, and have used my conclusions to make a new Nightmare proposal.

I'm not just sitting around going "Hmmm, who could it beeeeeeee??????" I'm looking at evidence and asking questions and trying to use the limited information we have to find scum, and suggesting otherwise is either indicative of not reading, or deliberate misrepresentation.

[Doctor Drew]

Drew ur a smart man

Now that is a misrep lol

Pre Edit: Ok, how exactly did you initially narrow the pool?

[Radical Rat]

Players who posted (and therefore were known to be active) in between the announcement you were in the nightmare and the previous mod post.

[KatyKimFanClub]

Finally able to get onto the site to post.

I like how Radical Rat is trying to figure out who put Drew into the Nightmare, but isn't it more likely that scum were talking in their own PT about doing this? I could see how if they're talking in there they would intentionally not talk in here during the time Drew was added to the Nightmare.

Interesting "neither confirm nor deny" post from Ranger though. The discussion around the post reads either like 1) a game starved for progressing posts or 2) post that actually hit scum?

[Radical Rat]

Finally able to get onto the site to post.

I like how Radical Rat is trying to figure out who put Drew into the Nightmare, but isn't it more likely that scum were talking in their own PT about doing this? I could see how if they're talking in there they would intentionally not talk in here during the time Drew was added to the Nightmare.

Interesting "neither confirm nor deny" post from Ranger though. The discussion around the post reads either like 1) a game starved for progressing posts or 2) post that actually hit scum?

This is also possible, and it's why I'm not tunneling Ranger over it.

But if you're a detective, and a murder was just committed, do you start by looking at people you know were at the scene of the crime, or do you just shrug your shoulders and go "Could have been anybody, guess there's no point in looking"?

[KatyKimFanClub]

Totally! I like what you did.

[Doctor Drew]

Finally able to get onto the site to post.

I like how Radical Rat is trying to figure out who put Drew into the Nightmare, but isn't it more likely that scum were talking in their own PT about doing this? I could see how if they're talking in there they would intentionally not talk in here during the time Drew was added to the Nightmare.

Interesting "neither confirm nor deny" post from Ranger though. The discussion around the post reads either like 1) a game starved for progressing posts or 2) post that actually hit scum?

This is also possible, and it's why I'm not tunneling Ranger over it.

But if you're a detective, and a murder was just committed, do you start by looking at people you know were at the scene of the crime, or do you just shrug your shoulders and go "Could have been anybody, guess there's no point in looking"?

Ok detective.

How exactly.......do you know who was at the scene of said crime?

[Radical Rat]

The scene of the crime is mafiascum.net

If they posted in the thread, during the estimated time the crime was committed, they were online at the time.

There's not an easy way of knowing who was online and didn't post, so it isn't an exhaustive list, but it's a starting point. Of those that we knew were there, Ranger is the most likely, and while her evasiveness isn't on its own proof of anything, the suspicion is strong enough that I don't want her in the Nightmare because of it.

[usesPython]

The scene of the crime is mafiascum.net

If they posted in the thread, during the estimated time the crime was committed, they were online at the time.

There's not an easy way of knowing who was online and didn't post, so it isn't an exhaustive list, but it's a starting point. Of those that we knew were there, Ranger is the most likely, and while her evasiveness isn't on its own proof of anything, the suspicion is strong enough that I don't want her in the Nightmare because of it.

Why would scum!Ranger be evasive instead of just saying she didn't do it when thread consensus seemed to be that it was scum doing it?

[Radical Rat]

The scene of the crime is mafiascum.net

If they posted in the thread, during the estimated time the crime was committed, they were online at the time.

There's not an easy way of knowing who was online and didn't post, so it isn't an exhaustive list, but it's a starting point. Of those that we knew were there, Ranger is the most likely, and while her evasiveness isn't on its own proof of anything, the suspicion is strong enough that I don't want her in the Nightmare because of it.

Why would scum!Ranger be evasive instead of just saying she didn't do it when thread consensus seemed to be that it was scum doing it?

Because Ranger's smart enough to know that refusing to answer is +Town, and that if she Did do it and gets caught later after a hard denial it'll be even more difficult to talk her way out of it than it already is.

I'm giving her space because of it, but I don't trust her enough right now to want her in the Nightmare, especially when we already have the numbers without her.

[usesPython]

Because Ranger's smart enough to know that refusing to answer is +Town, and that if she Did do it and gets caught later after a hard denial it'll be even more difficult to talk her way out of it than it already is.

I'm giving her space because of it, but I don't trust her enough right now to want her in the Nightmare, especially when we already have the numbers without her.

If she's smart enough to know it's +Town to refuse to answer as scum then she's also smart enough to know it's +Town to refuse to answer as town?? Because it's a pro town action?? And like if we get information that she did it we should probably lim her anyways and this sort of non-denial still wouldn't let her talk her way out of it??

[Radical Rat]

She could definitely be doing it as Town, yeah. I'm not saying it's impossible. Notably I'm not voting her over it. I just don't trust her right now.

[usesPython]

She could definitely be doing it as Town, yeah. I'm not saying it's impossible. Notably I'm not voting her over it. I just don't trust her right now.

My point is that if she'd do the same thing regardless of alignment I don't see how you'd read anything AI from it

[Radical Rat]

I read the circumstances around it as pointing to her. Her response itself is slightly Town indicative, and I acknowledge the evidence as largely circumstantial at this point, but it's not at a point where I trust her right now.