Weird Dreams Mafia Redux [Finished]

[Korina]

VC 1.16

Rauthedir (4):

Radical Rat, DragonEater70, Titus, Abnegation

DragonEater70 (4):

Ranger, Save The Dragons, Aureal, KatyKimFanClub

Abnegation (2):

sheepsaysmeep, Doctor Drew

KatyKimFanClub (1):

WhemeStar

Kyoko Kirigiri (1):

usesPython

Ranger (1):

Kyoko Kirigiri

camelCasedSnivy (0):

Aureal (0):

Doctor Drew (0):

sheepsaysmeep (0):

WhemeStar (0):

Random Nurse (0):

usesPython (0):

Save the Dragons (0):

Radical Rat (0):

Morning Tweet (0):

Titus (0):

Flea the Magician (0):

Merlyn (0):

Not Voting (6):

Flea the Magician, Morning Tweet, Merlyn, Random Nurse, Rautherdir, camelCasedSnivy

With

19

known votes, it takes

10

of them to achieve a majority.

Deadline is in:

(expired on 2023-07-17 00:30:00)

Moderator Notes:

- Titus is V/LA until July 7th, 2023.
- Ranger is V/LA every Sunday/Monday for July.

Nightmare

Radical Rat's proposal: [

Doctor Drew

, Abnegation, Aureal, Radical Rat, usesPython, DragonEater70, Titus] (3):

Radical Rat, Abnegation, camelCasedSnivy

Random Nurse's proposal: [Everyone] (1):

Random Nurse

DragonEater70's proposal: [

Doctor Drew

, DragonEater70, usesPython, Abnegation, Aureal, Titus] (1):

DragonEater70

Ranger's proposal: [

Doctor Drew

, Ranger, usesPython, Abnegation, KatyKimFanclub, Rautherdir, Radical Rat, sheepsaysmeep, Morning Tweet, camelCasedSnivy] (1):

Ranger

KatyKimFanClub's proposal: [

Doctor Drew

, KatyKimFanClub, usesPython, Radical Rat, Ranger, Morning Tweet, Random Nurse] (1):

KatyKimFanClub



With

19

known votes, it takes

10

of them to achieve a majority.

Doctor Drew is confirmed.

Spoiler: Pronouns

Pronoun Key

Later

Spoiler: Votes I'm Mentioning For Some Reason (EMPTY)

Empty

[Rautherdir]

I .. don't think scum would do a 1v1 with Ranger to be honest. And I still think Ranger is town, so.

I should look at Merlyn I suppose and see what I think about that slot.

For now though, HURT: Ranger

I would prefer a smaller set of players but more is... Fine. We could potentially do housing before we lose too many of this group but confirming someone+bulletproof probably better? Not sure, housing has good long term benefits and if a certain role still exists might even end up as a large pseudo-masonry at some point. (I mean except recruiting probably a thing so... Yeah.)

Things for people in the Nightmare to discuss. I think night 1 an IC is definitely better actually given we don't know what roles exist.

[usesPython]

I would prefer a smaller set of players but more is... Fine. We could potentially do housing before we lose too many of this group but confirming someone+bulletproof probably better? Not sure, housing has good long term benefits and if a certain role still exists might even end up as a large pseudo-masonry at some point. (I mean except recruiting probably a thing so... Yeah.)

Oh look it's happening again

-A

[Rautherdir]

I would prefer a smaller set of players but more is... Fine. We could potentially do housing before we lose too many of this group but confirming someone+bulletproof probably better? Not sure, housing has good long term benefits and if a certain role still exists might even end up as a large pseudo-masonry at some point. (I mean except recruiting probably a thing so... Yeah.)

Oh look it's happening again

-A

If we have a way to confirm every player in the nightmare is town all at once, or if we can take out whatever power does recruiting, then having a large neighborhood of town-core is stronger then a single IC.

Without either of those then IC is stronger. Thus night one, we do IC.

[Korina]

Not seeking replacement for Flea or DE at this point because I’ve heard from both - giving them 24 hours before replacement due to deadline extensions and MS issues.

[Aureal]

If I am town, and I am, then the entire pursuit is pointless and meaningless. The goal of town is to eliminate all threats to them. Regardless of how "weird", regardless of how "strange", the alleged signaling is, if I am town (and I am), then focusing on the supposed signaling is

not furthering the town win condition

.

You've written a bunch of words to justify yourself. Yet none which address the fundamental issue with the push being you're not following it to any of its possible logical conclusions.

I've said I'm town.
I've said I've no information on Doctor Drew whatsoever, and he isn't in my role PM at all.
I've said my puns were me having fun.

You've been focused on this since getting into the game, yet given both my statements and the lack of following the points to the logical conclusion, your push provides no tangible benefit. It's a distraction. It gives something for you to easily appear to give effort to, because putting time into a nothingness point is easy.

Ironically, this post appears to be a lot of words to make a nothingness point.

What sort of 'evidence' are people supposed to have here other than the words people have written?

[usesPython]

Ironically, this post appears to be a lot of words to make a nothingness point.

What sort of 'evidence' are people supposed to have here other than the words people have written?

What do you mean by this?

[Flea The Magician]

Being time blind is fun.

Not.

So whats the latest spice? I see ranger is attracting attention as per usual.

[Aureal]

I've also put time into sorting Doctor Drew, quite a bit actually.

And to address Python, this is a good bit of why it wasn't reading as mason to me. I suspected

you

were reading it as mason, but even with that in mind I couldn't see it myself. Why would a mason put in so much effort to 'sort' their partner who wasn't in any sort of trouble?

[Flea The Magician]

Ranger as usual youre screaming town and using a lot of reinforcive statements.

Who isnt town in your PoV?

[usesPython]

Why would a mason put in so much effort to 'sort' their partner who wasn't in any sort of trouble?

Where does this happen? Ranger spent the first like 1k posts this game just providing reads lists with little explanation

[usesPython]

Like we can believe Ranger spent time sorting Drew out of the public eye but why did

you

think she was sorting him before it was explained?

[usesPython]

Ranger as usual youre screaming town and using a lot of reinforcive statements.

Who isnt town in your PoV?

Rauth wagon's getting stale. I'll sheep, who do you want wagoned rn?

Honestly, any of:

Those I'd vote:
{Save The Dragons}
{Flea The Magician}
{Random Nurse}
{Titus}
{WhemeStar}
{Aureal}
{Merlyn}
{Kyoko Kirigiri}
{DragonEater70}

I'll say of them, only {Merlyn, Kyoko Kirigiri, DragonEater70} are strong scumreads.

Aureal's largely feeling something's off, yet not strongly. WhemeStar's not looking town. Random Nurse has given nothing in a potentially suspect way. Flea's limited content hasn't been good, yet Flea's currently absent. STD's null. Titus, need to read her most recent content, her placement may change.

[Aureal]

You never ever in any instances explained the dragon eater read so that's a lie.

70, 557, 558.

How hard was it to LITTERALY WRITE IN CLEAR WORDS I don't have a role interacting with drew and I have no info on him mechanically and that everything I say is based on my reads.

Quite easy, actually.

How hard was it for you to read that when I'd been saying it from the getgo?

When did I not answer you?

It's getting late, this would require me to go through every post I've made and check in relation to yours. Suffice to say, there's examples such as how you ignored 961 among others. To compile a full list would likely take two hours or so. I want to sleep before then. Come Tuesday, I'd be happy to deliver. (Reminder; V/LA Sunday+Monday.)

This Ranger post is definitely scum.

LOOK I DID A GREAT JOB EXPLAINING MY READ WOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[Aureal]

Yes haha. I like to make separate posts because it makes it easier to go back and reread them as different ideas.

Before anyone asks, I think multi quote is a step fot tomorrow

Like you think I should use multi quote tomorrow? Or you're going to vote for me tomorrow because I don't use multi-quote at times?

I'm pretty sure Titus was talking about herself there, not you.

LOOK WHAT YOU DID, DREW

NOW EVERYONE IS PARANOID ABOUT MULTIQUOTES

EXCEPT ME

I'M GOING TO KEEP MAKING INDIVIDUAL POSTS LIKE A JERK

HAHAHAHAHA

[Titus]

Alright, so here's where I'm at.

I don't have any idea what's going on with Ranger at this point. But I stand by Town wouldn't have just tossed Drew in without any kind of discussion about it. Even Drew last game at least asked first.

The logical flaw I THOUGHT was being highlighted was assuming Town wouldn't have had extra info on Drew to make a decision that he needed to be added to the nightmare without revealing that information. This is apparently not the case though.

So I am doubling down on my assessment that this time around it's far more likely to have been from scum. That may or may not have been Ranger.

For one reason or another though, scum wanted Drew in the nightmare. Maybe it was a diversionary tactic, or maybe they were afraid a Nightmare would form without scum on it, or maybe they have a unique benefit to Drew specifically being on the nightmare.

Right now, the only person who really stood to be a beneficiary from the nightmare thing as a diversion would be Rauth, but even then it was a stale wagon and I don't think he's behaving like someone trying to deflect attention. So I'm willing to bank on scum having some other reason to submit Drew. And I want to deny them that.

This does mean we'll need seven non-Drew people to run the Nightmare, and I do not want Ranger among them right now. I'd propose adding in StD, if people are amenable. Out of those not already on the list, I think he smells pretty Town.

If I'm reading this, you feel Ranger is only evil with Rautherdir but the possibility of that is strong enough to keep Ranger out of the nightmar

Not necessarily. I think, regardless of Rautherdir, Ranger is most likely to be the one who put Drew into the Nightmare, and that due to the circumstances around it, the person who put Drew into the Nightmare is likely to be scum.

There exists enough room for error that I don't want to definitively say 100% that Ranger DID do it though, so I don't want to eliminate her without more evidence yet, but I don't want her in the Nightmare until I figure it out properly.

Fair. Thank you for patience. I don't want to accidentally put words in your moth.

If you feel that scum put Drew in the nightmare, then doesn't it follow scum are pushing his wrong opinions or Drew is scum himself.

[Aureal]

there is absolutely no thinking process behind the read, no engagement, not a single question, not a single talk with even other slots about that read of yours.

Actually, I did talk about it. I generally don't repeat points though, so after I talked about it once, I didn't see a need to say the same thing again.

I have a very strong gut scumread on DragonEater70.
This read has no objective reasoning, and even has some doubts to it. Others insist this is him as town, and the votes supporting the wagon are not promising.
Yet the gut read remains. I can't exactly make the gut read magically vanish. It's an inconvenience, yet it's there. I believe he's a good flip. I have no case beyond "trust my gutread", so I don't expect to realistically be followed. This won't stop me from continuing to call him scum, and continuing to provide reasons for my other scumreads.

Its more just a random vote dropped on a typical lhf regardless if he is town or scum.

This I can comment on.

I don't think DragonEater70 fits as low-hanging fruit. In my experience, he's a better player than that.

He's largely absent this game, which isn't ai imo. Still, he can get widely townread fairly easily when town and is far from an easy mislim. Were he actually an easy mislim, then a town player having a strong gut scumread on him, voting him, and dissuading players from voting a town mislim, would likely have gathered more support than it did.

You have been contradicting your drew instance multiple times.

I'm fairly certain those contradictions are called "read evolution".
My stance on Doctor Drew has been clear.
I've no role information about him. This has always been clear from the onset. Your narrative otherwise is yours alone and not reflective of reality.

I initially had a gut townread on him.
I then thought his contributions were closer to his scumgame.
Then, I saw signs of his towngame.
Now, I also believe he's been spewed town (or at least not groupscum) by those I think likely scum.
I maintain it's possible he's 3p, because of the potential red flags I saw. So any alignment flip from him wouldn't surprise me. Town, scum, 3p, all possible. Yet with what I have, I believe he's not scum. He's demonstrating strong signs of being town, and if I had to guess I would say town. Even if 3p, on D1 3p aren't a focus, so as long as he's not groupscum, he's to be treated as town because he's either town or 3p and there's a fairly high chance he's just town.

This is all fairly clear to every player in the game--except apparently, you.

@_@

Whatever you are supposedly trying to say here is not clear to me at all. Don't claim to speak for me.

[Aureal]

I would prefer a smaller set of players but more is... Fine. We could potentially do housing before we lose too many of this group but confirming someone+bulletproof probably better? Not sure, housing has good long term benefits and if a certain role still exists might even end up as a large pseudo-masonry at some point. (I mean except recruiting probably a thing so... Yeah.)

Oh look it's happening again

-A

Exactly my thoughts. XD

[usesPython]

I initially had a gut townread on him.
I then thought his contributions were closer to his scumgame.
Then, I saw signs of his towngame.
Now, I also believe he's been spewed town (or at least not groupscum) by those I think likely scum.
I maintain it's possible he's 3p, because of the potential red flags I saw. So any alignment flip from him wouldn't surprise me. Town, scum, 3p, all possible. Yet with what I have, I believe he's not scum. He's demonstrating strong signs of being town, and if I had to guess I would say town. Even if 3p, on D1 3p aren't a focus, so as long as he's not groupscum, he's to be treated as town because he's either town or 3p and there's a fairly high chance he's just town.

This is all fairly clear to every player in the game--except apparently, you.

@_@

Whatever you are supposedly trying to say here is not clear to me at all. Don't claim to speak for me.

What don't you get?

• If you're looking for town you look for signs of towniness.
  
• If you're looking for 3p you look for signs of unaligned scumminess (which D1 will involve pre-flip associatives if you're not groupscum)
  
• If you're looking for groupscum you look for signs of aligned scumminess (which D1 will involve pre-flip associatives if you're not groupscum)

Ranger thinks Drew had some towniness and some scumminess and also has the people she's scumreading be pushing Drew both on and off wagon which would point to Drew being either 3p or Town

[Titus]

Not buying a lot of the logic related to traitor/lawyer signaling. Way more indicative ways to do it in a game with two voting mechanisms, imo?

Yes, that's one of the issues with Kyoko Kirigiri's focus there. She said it herself. It's blatant, too obvious even.

I've provided my answer; it was me having fun.

This answer is insufficient for her, yet the entire narrative she's selling has no logical conclusion making it worth pushing continuously.

Aren't town usually the ones with inconsistencie

[Flea The Magician]

Ranger as usual youre screaming town and using a lot of reinforcive statements.

Who isnt town in your PoV?

Rauth wagon's getting stale. I'll sheep, who do you want wagoned rn?

Honestly, any of:

Those I'd vote:
{Save The Dragons}
{Flea The Magician}
{Random Nurse}
{Titus}
{WhemeStar}
{Aureal}
{Merlyn}
{Kyoko Kirigiri}
{DragonEater70}

I'll say of them, only {Merlyn, Kyoko Kirigiri, DragonEater70} are strong scumreads.

Aureal's largely feeling something's off, yet not strongly. WhemeStar's not looking town. Random Nurse has given nothing in a potentially suspect way. Flea's limited content hasn't been good, yet Flea's currently absent. STD's null. Titus, need to read her most recent content, her placement may change.

Didn't realise you were in the game twice. My bad.

[usesPython]

Didn't realise you were in the game twice. My bad.

Whoops, we altslipped :p

[Titus]

I'm checking out from this wall war

VOTE: Merlyn

Do something interesting

-A

Same

[Doctor Drew]

I'm checking out from this wall war

VOTE: Merlyn

Do something interesting

-A

Same

It is strange that I have been in the same page of these two so much lol.

Is a nice feeling.

[Aureal]

Ironically, this post appears to be a lot of words to make a nothingness point.

What sort of 'evidence' are people supposed to have here other than the words people have written?

What do you mean by this?

I mean what I said. It's a lot of words (in a post complaining about someone using a lot of words) to make the point "I'm town therefore pushing me is bad and suspicious." Which is crap. Because 1) everyone is going to say they're town but some are lying, and 2) townies don't know who all is town so they're gonna push town a lot, analyzing the reasoning for the push is needed.

Also I see a vote count finally.

VOTE: Merlyn - do something interesting!