Weird Dreams Mafia Redux [Finished]

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

I think (thought more a bit before) that ranger is scum. simple as that.

sorting her signaling is an independent and necessary endeavor.

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

I mean what I said. It's a lot of words (in a post complaining about someone using a lot of words) to make the point "I'm town therefore pushing me is bad and suspicious."

You're kinda missing the point being made which is that regardless of Rangers alignment (scum/traitor/3p/town) the push on Ranger instead of pushing Drew/not pushing anyone makes no sense from town!Kirigiri's POV. The town scenario is there for completeness sake

What is your read on drew?

[usesPython]

What is your read on drew?

Probably town

[usesPython]

If that was your ONLY reason. If you think Ranger is just scummy in addition to the possible traitor signalling (and that's where I am), Drew being green isn't really that helpful for sorting Ranger.

What do you think is scummy about Ranger outside the traitor signalling thing?

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

no your initial response to me was that you made them just for fun and puns - then you linked to the post where you said you will not talk about it
which are two completely contradictory responses

Well there's your problem. You're calling the responses contradictory when they're the same response.

Stating they were puns for fun was my way of not commenting on it.
Stating I will not talk about it was also my way of not commenting on it.

They're two halves of the same approach. Not two contradictory ones. I provided the answer the puns were for fun. I provided the answer I refuse to give information to rolefishers on policy.

Both

are saying "I decline to say if these were breadcrumbs". AKA, "I won't talk about it".

You're actually correct though. It

was

to make you go away--because as I've been rather clear about: focusing on perceived breadcrumbs isn't +town. I didn't want wasted time, effort, or pages on what I knew to be a meaningless subject, because it couldn't help the town to discuss. Making players go away from the subject I knew wasn't productive to pursue, was my goal. I'm definitely guilty of that!

I wonder who made it not happen?

I actually don't see it as same response at all and didn't get the vibe they were meant t imply same thing.one is dismissive and the other is to keep it as mystery. They are classified as very different approaches in my head, which was one of the stuff that bugged me almost immediately about your responses - leading me to vote you saying I'm not satisfied and I need more form you.

But when you wrote this I kinda see it from another angle now and getting a new perspective on this

[Radical Rat]

Alright, so here's where I'm at.

I don't have any idea what's going on with Ranger at this point. But I stand by Town wouldn't have just tossed Drew in without any kind of discussion about it. Even Drew last game at least asked first.

The logical flaw I THOUGHT was being highlighted was assuming Town wouldn't have had extra info on Drew to make a decision that he needed to be added to the nightmare without revealing that information. This is apparently not the case though.

So I am doubling down on my assessment that this time around it's far more likely to have been from scum. That may or may not have been Ranger.

For one reason or another though, scum wanted Drew in the nightmare. Maybe it was a diversionary tactic, or maybe they were afraid a Nightmare would form without scum on it, or maybe they have a unique benefit to Drew specifically being on the nightmare.

Right now, the only person who really stood to be a beneficiary from the nightmare thing as a diversion would be Rauth, but even then it was a stale wagon and I don't think he's behaving like someone trying to deflect attention. So I'm willing to bank on scum having some other reason to submit Drew. And I want to deny them that.

This does mean we'll need seven non-Drew people to run the Nightmare, and I do not want Ranger among them right now. I'd propose adding in StD, if people are amenable. Out of those not already on the list, I think he smells pretty Town.

If I'm reading this, you feel Ranger is only evil with Rautherdir but the possibility of that is strong enough to keep Ranger out of the nightmar

Not necessarily. I think, regardless of Rautherdir, Ranger is most likely to be the one who put Drew into the Nightmare, and that due to the circumstances around it, the person who put Drew into the Nightmare is likely to be scum.

There exists enough room for error that I don't want to definitively say 100% that Ranger DID do it though, so I don't want to eliminate her without more evidence yet, but I don't want her in the Nightmare until I figure it out properly.

Fair. Thank you for patience. I don't want to accidentally put words in your moth.

If you feel that scum put Drew in the nightmare, then doesn't it follow scum are pushing his wrong opinions or Drew is scum himself.

That, or scum are expecting us to think that and mislim Drew. Which is why I bring up Rauth; he was the leading wagon at the time, so if Drew is bait, he's bait to get us away from Rauth... but there was no real urgency around Rauth so it seems more likely to me scum are actively supporting Drew, like you say.

[Radical Rat]

... I'm now realizing I forgot to actually change my vote. This has probably caused confusion.

HURT: Abnegation, Aureal, Radical Rat, usesPython, DragonEater70, Titus, Save the Dragons

VOTE: Doctor Drew

[usesPython]

... I'm now realizing I forgot to actually change my vote. This has probably caused confusion.

HURT: Abnegation, Aureal, Radical Rat, usesPython, DragonEater70, Titus, Save the Dragons

VOTE: Doctor Drew

Is this a gamestate read or are you also independently scumreading Drew?

[Radical Rat]

... I'm now realizing I forgot to actually change my vote. This has probably caused confusion.

HURT: Abnegation, Aureal, Radical Rat, usesPython, DragonEater70, Titus, Save the Dragons

VOTE: Doctor Drew

Is this a gamestate read or are you also independently scumreading Drew?

Mostly gamestate, but I'm certainly not Townreading Drew.

[usesPython]

... I'm now realizing I forgot to actually change my vote. This has probably caused confusion.

HURT: Abnegation, Aureal, Radical Rat, usesPython, DragonEater70, Titus, Save the Dragons

VOTE: Doctor Drew

Is this a gamestate read or are you also independently scumreading Drew?

Mostly gamestate, but I'm certainly not Townreading Drew.

I think Drew was pretty townie with his Abnegation/KKFC push, if we're talking about the day ability why cant it be something like a Town Informed Nightmare Decider?

[Radical Rat]

Because I do not believe that someone with such an ability would just pop it D1 without any indication or discussion.

If Ranger had fessed up about it, I MIGHT have believed the Drew puns/offering to pay Drew royalties immediately before the announcement were crumbing, but she has now explicitly denied that possibility, and I don't think anyone else really has anything pointing toward abnormal information about Drew.

[Abnegation]

Because I do not believe that someone with such an ability would just pop it D1 without any indication or discussion.

If Ranger had fessed up about it, I MIGHT have believed the Drew puns/offering to pay Drew royalties immediately before the announcement were crumbing, but she has now explicitly denied that possibility, and I don't think anyone else really has anything pointing toward abnormal information about Drew.

why is abnormal information about drew needed to put him in the nightmare? or am i misunderstanding?

[Abnegation]

for all we know, scum could have noticed that ranger was making

drew

puns and put him in there to cast suspicion. idk.

[Abnegation]

for all we know, scum could have noticed that ranger was making

drew

puns and put him in there to cast suspicion. idk.

^
that might implicate kirigiri if true but it's just a theory.

[Radical Rat]

The suggestion was a Town Informed role did it. Can't be informed without information

[Abnegation]

The suggestion was a Town Informed role did it. Can't be informed without information

ok, makes sense, i just can't read apparently.

[Radical Rat]

for all we know, scum could have noticed that ranger was making

drew

puns and put him in there to cast suspicion. idk.

This is possible. Fortunately, I think a Drew flip helps with assessing that

[KatyKimFanClub]

I think Drew was pretty townie with his Abnegation/KKFC push, if we're talking about the day ability why cant it be something like a Town Informed Nightmare Decider?

You thought that most recent push was *town*? It seemed pretty NAI to me, with it being total bullshit

[Rautherdir]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding how a traitor works?? A Mafia traitor is still Mafia and needs to be eliminated for town to win, right??

No actually

A Traitor is considered Normal on mafiascum.net, as long as it:

• is endgamed if all other Mafia are dead

(Unless they're a Lazy Traitor)

[Abnegation]

I think Drew was pretty townie with his Abnegation/KKFC push, if we're talking about the day ability why cant it be something like a Town Informed Nightmare Decider?

You thought that most recent push was *town*? It seemed pretty NAI to me, with it being total bullshit

i'm not python, but those sorts of conspiracy theories are definitely a thing town!drew does.

[Save The Dragons]

busy today, will try to get to this tonight or tomorrow.

[Titus]

Your posting feels like it's trying to avoid giving townreads.

I've townreads on nine of the players in this game and have described most of those townreads.

Mind clarifying how I've avoided giving townreads?

{usesPython}
{Radical Rat, Abnegation, KatyKimFanclub, Rautherdir, Doctor Drew}
{Morning Tweet, camelCasedSnivy}
{sheepsaysmeep}

All of these are town to me. I've been rather clear about this.

I should have said townreads on certain slots. My mistake.

[Titus]

...
I think it means common parlance.

KK, are you aware I am a lawyer?

What does this post mean genuinely

Who are you? New Enchant/Kitty?

No I've been here from the start man

Also Kyoko v Ranger is probably a battle that's not gonna end and I doubt its TvT

Not enough people want to see the value in my current wagon so

UNVOTE: Rauth

It means that I got confused about the lawyer as traitor thing bc I am a lawyer IRL.

[sheepsaysmeep]

Weird Dreams Mafia

[Titus]

townies: merlyn, rat
probably town: ranger, kyoko, drew
maybe town: tweet
null: everyone else probably for a good reason or a bad reason
maybe scum: python, abnegation, std
scum: bianco (or whoever they were being replaced by), aureal, rauth, snivy!!!

i can elaborate if someone wants but I think I made it clear

who is RR btw

Which one of Ranger/Kyoko is scum Camel?

Wtf are these reads,? Aside from Rauth. I don't get them at all.