Weird Dreams Mafia Redux [Finished]

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

curious why people townread Titus

It's a somewhat weak read, but when she's been here she's seemed genuinely invested and asking thoughtful questions, showing what looks to me like a desire to solve

Scum Titus seems so tunnely and unreasonable to me.

Titus is this game seems more free flowing and like her town game.

where was she flowing? I mean I guess she sounds natural but she seems really lost.

I'm fairly certain players aren't giving credit to me where it's due this game. I've been ahead of the curb at nearly every stage.

I was the one who brought up the mechanical reason for not putting everyone in, and people followed it after I brought it up.
I was the one who brought up Rautherdir was likely a town mislim off the back of players like Radical Rat, and people followed it after I brought it up.
Most of my reads, you've objective evidence I was the first to have, yet after forming them suddenly everyone had them. Examples include my DragonEater70 scumread, Titus read, Flea read, Aureal suspicion, and countless more.
Including the entire reason we have a Meryl wagon in the first place being

I suspected her

.

Everyone's sheeping

my

case (which is off the back of my Rautherdir case, mind), and backing

my

wagon.

You can suspect me all you want.
Don't try to erase my contributions, for what they are.

Thats not how I remember the game at all or is it my skimming fault? Others were discussing why they shouldn't put everyone in nightmare. I don't even remember your post regarding that but I have an idea of others who did it. (so maybe I'm forgetting it)

That is just credit stealing though to say you said rauth is likely a mislim and going away from it and claim it for yourself. first is that why is there even credit to claim for that? We don't know what rauth is so town!you might be wrong for this. But you're talking bout this as if you know something more than us? secondly, many people got to same conscious at the same time. I didn't even feel like anyone sheeped your read on that matter rather then having their own reasons for distancing from that wagon.

as for your merlyn read, the slot is super slacker with 0 content. how is this an achievement to call her scummy for this? Its not like you developed a case on the slot that you're claiming credit for it. and why would you deserve credit for pushing a wagon we don't know what it will flip?

and people sheeping your reads when they are so baseless and without substance is one of the reasons that make me even more alarmed regarding your slot.

[Radical Rat]

I just wanna say I'm explicitly NOT sheeping Ranger here.

I happened to come to a similar conclusion, though I didn't immediately vocalize it because I had other priorities, but honestly Ranger bringing it up is my biggest CONCERN about the wagon.

As of right now, I still think it's the correct play, but I am very iffy on Ranger, and I don't like that she's trying to take credit for everything. Like it's true that she has brought up these points, but I know she wasn't the first to poke holes in the Everyone Nightmare, and while she may have been first to mention Merlyn being weird around me, she also made no effort to actually start the wagon until other people did.

The same can be said of me about Merlyn to an extent, but like. I'm not trying to claim credit for it, beyond refuting accusations of not having a reason.

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

Oh okay I can see how Kyoko got that read, though for the life of me I can't understand why she would push it?

I was not pushing ranger cause I thought she was a lawyer or her signalling. At first I voted her to ask her why was she signalling cause it didn't ping me as town soft. then I actually scumread her for her read on me. her being a lawyer was just a theory I had around start but was developing in my head along the way - and it got reinforced as I was catching up - not my reason for pushing her

Okay I tried to make a huge post with a lot of quotes of Kyoko but it looked monstrous so instead I'll just summarize my ISO and go back to having a life outside of this site:

- I initially liked the first few posts where she gives 0.1 and 0.3 townpoints etc. However on a second read, It feels off because it's not her town meta.
- I know it's silly, but I actually have an urge to scumread the fact that she's not roleplaying as a detective, like she did in her previous towngames on this account.
- I do agree with most of her reads, including the fact that initially the pun on Drew's name looked quite forced (I mean it still looks forced, but I don't think Ranger is scum for it). So I guess that's +town
- However, I did not like the fact that she said TWO SEPERATE TIMES that Rauther was scummy (which they were), but didn't vote or investigate him (which is very unlike her).
- I also like the fact that she went into a big 1v1 with Ranger and was really consistent with her reasoning.
- However I do not like the fact that I'm actually having a headache trying to understand what the hell she and Ranger are talking about half the time. It feels like they are both twisting each other's words. And they are posting huge wallposts and the entire point of each wallpost that either is posting is saying "oh but I already explained why I disagree with your wallpost" so I have to look earlier to see what they refer to and I can't find it in all the wallposts and it's honestly destroying my brain to bits.
So for now I agree with these two posts:

Can we just IC Ranger/Kyoko I'm feeling my will to play mafia drain with every wall that gets posted

-A

I'm checking out from this wall war

VOTE: Merlyn

Do something interesting

-A

I think we will have plenty of content from both Kyoko and Ranger later on to form reads off of.
However for the time being, Ranger is townie and Kyoko is slightly scummy for meta reasons, even though her posts are fucking amazing and honestly her reads are spot on.

Town meter is cause in recent games People were trying so hard to assign reads to me that i didn't have and it was my attempt - a new attempt for first time in my gaming - to show people what I post in response to a single isolated post can be contradictory with my overall stance with a player as I don't consider a single isolated post as a way to generate a read. I only create reads by putting together a series of vibes/points I got from each slot and analyzing that pattern as a whole to judge if its mainly from town or scum mind set.

and exactly that holds for your take on my rauth "read". I was just saying rauth individual takes at that point of game has potential to be sign of a scum mind set. but as whole and as I progressed with my catch up I changed my mind regarding rauth. I haven't found a harder scum read than ranger as it is so my vote is there for now. before today catch up merlyn was also around that in my feel vibes for dropping one liners without progressing anything and generally lacking game play but I think I'm warming up on her a bit with her response to ranger push.

I don't think I in any instance "twisted" ranger words. I was just explaining how I saw it. so if you saw that, elaborate.

regardless I find this elaborate post + town from DE even though its pretty undecisive for a town mind set. but I actually like that for him.

I'm fairly certain players aren't giving credit to me where it's due this game. I've been ahead of the curb at nearly every stage.

I was the one who brought up the mechanical reason for not putting everyone in, and people followed it after I brought it up.
I was the one who brought up Rautherdir was likely a town mislim off the back of players like Radical Rat, and people followed it after I brought it up.
Most of my reads, you've objective evidence I was the first to have, yet after forming them suddenly everyone had them. Examples include my DragonEater70 scumread, Titus read, Flea read, Aureal suspicion, and countless more.
Including the entire reason we have a Meryl wagon in the first place being

I suspected her

.

Everyone's sheeping

my

case (which is off the back of my Rautherdir case, mind), and backing

my

wagon.

You can suspect me all you want.
Don't try to erase my contributions, for what they are.

Ok Ranger likely town.

why?

If you lim me and then when I flip town, what kind of credit do you think you will deserve then?

The credit of being wrong; the credit of pushing through a mislim.

Credit's not just for

good

things; regardless of type, it should be given where due.

This makes no sense.

But I think my main issue is with you demanding credit in first place. are you here to solve or look good?

In a read I’m

behind

the curb on, I’ve come around to Titus = town.

The question is simply by how much, and this, I will answer when figuring out my next readslist.

Isnt that too easy for you to make that read

I was thinking town ranger would suspect her more?

Btw I realize this is mechanical talk(derogatory) and the ship has long-since sailed, yet because I’m likely to die early, I should mention this;

I agree with the current plan of BP IC as optimal.

Should the need arise

for an alternative, my suggestion would be Loyal Rolecop.
Scum holding the role are largely boxed in. They can claim blocked, they can claim a result on a scumbuddy, yet the only way to generate a result on town is with an actual mafia rolecop. (I’ve reasons to doubt mafia have an ungated rolecop.)
Town using it can generate clears, which the cleared players can verify, effectively confirming both participants as town.
The weakness is scum blocking roles interfering.

Between the scum rcs and scum rbs, this is NOT the optimal role, imo; that's BP IC.
If ever there’s a need for an

alternative

, this is my suggestion.

Ignore this unless such a situation arises. I don’t want more mechanical talk. This is a "just in case" to suggest an emergency backup if the plan we have can’t work.

I like the current plan by default.

why not a loyal cop and royal role cop? I mean as an alternative to bp ic which we should do cause mod said its fine anyway

I don't like ranger proposal cause I'm skeptical about titus and I'm scum reading ranger.

I'm fine with people not wanting mne to be in nightmare but I don't want ranger there so i think

HURT: Doctor Drew, usesPython, Abnegation, Aureal, camelCasedSnivy, Save the Dragons, Radical Rat

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

just for you DE, I'll start with these again



I'll be back later tonight

[usesPython]

why not a loyal cop and royal role cop? I mean as an alternative to bp ic which we should do cause mod said its fine anyway

Not only is Cop an illegal Normal Invention but making the Cop Loyal is strictly worse than unmodified Cop. Loyal Rolecop is still likely better than the 1-shot Cop Invention (from the Cop action) if we can't trust the person being given the Cop invention since it forces them to either check their buddy or figure out a Townies exact role through other means.

(Though arguably Loyal Neighborizer is probably the best backup invention since it also bypasses the problem of scum figuring out exact roles through other means)

Also no more mech please

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

yeah, I had a brain freeze loyal cop makes no sense hehe - role cap can give the scum tools to gain extra info so Neighborizer is probably safer and it can possibly create a masonry for the two - unless if they had another neighborizing skill from before.

[camelCasedSnivy]

i mean, rat did claim miller

also i still want votessssss

[usesPython]

role cap can give the scum tools to gain extra info

Last bit of mech and then we're done, Loyal Rolecop mechanically can't give scum any new information because they can only target scum with it (and they would already know that info)

[Korina]

This is a mod note for the next VC that Kyoko Kirigiri has a reoccurring V/LA on Sunday thru Tuesday.

[Korina]

This is a

parachute

VC.

[Save The Dragons]

I'm voting merlyn because it's felt like merlyn's not really done much this game, also I want a wagon. I feel like merlyn's defense is a little vapid, but maybe it's accurate. I need some time to digest it.

[Doctor Drew]

curious why people townread Titus

It's a somewhat weak read, but when she's been here she's seemed genuinely invested and asking thoughtful questions, showing what looks to me like a desire to solve

Scum Titus seems so tunnely and unreasonable to me.

Titus is this game seems more free flowing and like her town game.

where was she flowing? I mean I guess she sounds natural but she seems really lost.

I'm fairly certain players aren't giving credit to me where it's due this game. I've been ahead of the curb at nearly every stage.

I was the one who brought up the mechanical reason for not putting everyone in, and people followed it after I brought it up.
I was the one who brought up Rautherdir was likely a town mislim off the back of players like Radical Rat, and people followed it after I brought it up.
Most of my reads, you've objective evidence I was the first to have, yet after forming them suddenly everyone had them. Examples include my DragonEater70 scumread, Titus read, Flea read, Aureal suspicion, and countless more.
Including the entire reason we have a Meryl wagon in the first place being

I suspected her

.

Everyone's sheeping

my

case (which is off the back of my Rautherdir case, mind), and backing

my

wagon.

You can suspect me all you want.
Don't try to erase my contributions, for what they are.

Thats not how I remember the game at all or is it my skimming fault? Others were discussing why they shouldn't put everyone in nightmare. I don't even remember your post regarding that but I have an idea of others who did it. (so maybe I'm forgetting it)

That is just credit stealing though to say you said rauth is likely a mislim and going away from it and claim it for yourself. first is that why is there even credit to claim for that? We don't know what rauth is so town!you might be wrong for this. But you're talking bout this as if you know something more than us? secondly, many people got to same conscious at the same time. I didn't even feel like anyone sheeped your read on that matter rather then having their own reasons for distancing from that wagon.

as for your merlyn read, the slot is super slacker with 0 content. how is this an achievement to call her scummy for this? Its not like you developed a case on the slot that you're claiming credit for it. and why would you deserve credit for pushing a wagon we don't know what it will flip?

and people sheeping your reads when they are so baseless and without substance is one of the reasons that make me even more alarmed regarding your slot.

Free flowing and sounding natural are the same for me.

I'm my experience her scum game is a bit more focused.

[Merlyn]

I'm voting merlyn because it's felt like merlyn's not really done much this game, also I want a wagon. I feel like merlyn's defense is a little vapid, but maybe it's accurate. I need some time to digest it.

That's fair, bc I think you're reasoning is a little vapid.

[Save The Dragons]

Your face is vapid

[Titus]

I'm voting merlyn because it's felt like merlyn's not really done much this game, also I want a wagon. I feel like merlyn's defense is a little vapid, but maybe it's accurate. I need some time to digest it.

O.o this feels like I wrote it.

[Merlyn]

Your face is vapid

Your mom is vapid!

[Merlyn]

I actually think I'd like to be the lim today. I'm feeling really confident that there's more than one scum on it in fact.

[Save The Dragons]

Did you say who

[Merlyn]

A little, but I'll do a full breakdown if I'm getting yeeted

[Radical Rat]

Do you not think providing a convincing alternative would help your position here?

[Merlyn]

Do you not think providing a convincing alternative would help your position here?

Maybe, but I'm of the opinion- hey, maybe it's wrong- that I shouldn't have to solve the game D1 and offer someone else up in order to not get limmed. Even if I had no scumreads, I would still be town and this would still be a crap wagon.

[usesPython]

VOTE: WhemeStar

[usesPython]

Brownie points if you can figure out exactly why we're voting Wheme before we wake up

[Aureal]

There hasn't been any real counterwagon and deadline is drawing near, I've been thinking of doing this already. VOTE: WhemeStar

[Radical Rat]

Do you not think providing a convincing alternative would help your position here?

Maybe, but I'm of the opinion- hey, maybe it's wrong- that I shouldn't have to solve the game D1 and offer someone else up in order to not get limmed. Even if I had no scumreads, I would still be town and this would still be a crap wagon.

You shouldn't have to solve the game, but generally when I'm being pushed and I'm innocent, I'm VERY concerned about who pushing me is scum and why.