Weird Dreams Mafia Redux [Finished]

[Radical Rat]

And yet, that isn't actually what happened. It sparked interactions, and while her ultimate answer was a refusal to answer, the context around it and seeing how she reacts to the questioning are valuable. Plus, I don't actually agree that it was a foregone conclusion she would never admit to it, and that there's merit in letting her answer for herself before trying to guess what she might say.

Even then, I wouldn't have had as strong a reaction if it had JUST been called pointless, though I still strongly disagree. It's the assertion that it's not only pointless, but scummy to even try that puts it over the edge for me.

[Merlyn]

Me: I think some of the people on my wagon are scum

Two of the people on my wagon: TELL US WHO RIGHT NOW ITS NOT TOWN TO NOT TELL

You are literally at E-3 with no counterwagon, but fine whatever we still gave you a chance to work a town mindset by figuring out why we're voting Wheme

Okay, I find someone sus and ask all of you to guess for points then

All right, I'll play- is it bc they keep waffling about sheeping ranger?

Timestamps imply 9 minutes spent trying to figure this out, also no, also also implies you didn't iso us to see what we'd find sus in this gamestate:

• We wanted a low-poster dead -> implies we think lurking is scum indicative
  
• The hint was you and DragonEater70 should have an easier time figuring it out -> implies it's somehow related to the three of you

The actual answer is that WhemeStar had cross-site activity during key points in this game that they lurked through, namely the Kirigiri/Ranger 1v1 where they were playing Codenames with you and Dragon. Yes they did declare V/LA but they were able to play Codenames every day while their only contribution to this game at the time was

Hi I’m still basically Vla but I was like fck it ima just sheep Ranger but they’ve been voting the same person since post #1 and that’s kinda Sussy to me Ranger

Anyways you failed the reaction test rn by not being townie enough

VOTE: Merlyn

ok

[Ranger]

Ngl; I stopped posting because with me as inside the nightmare I believe all-town, my plan was to solve overnight and in the event I survived, adjust as needed and share everything still pertinent.

I felt providing the content today would've only further stalled us.

As there's now a counter-proposal excluding me, let me bargain further.

I was always intending this, just wasn't planning on

announcing

it. Support the 1498 proposal, and I'll claim in the Nightmare. Exclude me or put anyone who I don't trust in there, and I obviously won't.

[usesPython]

Ngl; I stopped posting because with me as inside the nightmare I believe all-town, my plan was to solve overnight and in the event I survived, adjust as needed and share everything still pertinent.

I felt providing the content today would've only further stalled us.

As there's now a counter-proposal excluding me, let me bargain further.

I was always intending this, just wasn't planning on

announcing

it. Support the 1498 proposal, and I'll claim in the Nightmare. Exclude me or put anyone who I don't trust in there, and I obviously won't.

You trust Titus over Rauth? We've got 1618 if we're not doing democracy

[usesPython]

And yet, that isn't actually what happened. It sparked interactions, and while her ultimate answer was a refusal to answer, the context around it and seeing how she reacts to the questioning are valuable. Plus, I don't actually agree that it was a foregone conclusion she would never admit to it, and that there's merit in letting her answer for herself before trying to guess what she might say.

Even then, I wouldn't have had as strong a reaction if it had JUST been called pointless, though I still strongly disagree. It's the assertion that it's not only pointless, but scummy to even try that puts it over the edge for me.

I don't think it's an unreasonable stance though? It's not a question of whether you think ranger not admitting to it is a forgone conclusion because the actual question is whether town!sheep should find it reasonable to even remotely think Ranger was gonna do anything other than deny/deflect, cause if not then from his perspective it

would

look like you shading Ranger with questions that'd never go anywhere

[Ranger]

Where does this happen? Ranger spent the first like 1k posts this game just providing reads lists with little explanation

Coming to prior content I never commented on; I explain reads and their shift in readslists when asked.

Shifts in them are important and meaningful, regardless of whether I'm engaged on providing explanations.

For most readslists, even days later, I can say exactly what changed between two, even if I no longer have the same read.

[Ranger]

You trust Titus over Rauth? We've got 1618 if we're not doing democracy

Over Rauth? No, Titus is a weaker townread than Rautherdir.

I'm still okay with Titus present as I believe she's town.

[usesPython]

Where does this happen? Ranger spent the first like 1k posts this game just providing reads lists with little explanation

Coming to prior content I never commented on; I explain reads and their shift in readslists when asked.

Sure but from Aureals perspective it should have been chronologically impossible for her to conclude you couldn't be masons with Drew due to your effort spent sorting Drew because you didn't publicly do it until after Aureal expressed doubts about you being masons with Drew

[Ranger]

The problem with democracy is that I don't get what I personally want B(

The proposal I'd actually want would be a modified 1082 adding Titus in (as 1082 was prior to gaining a townread on her).

I don't really care about "seven names exactly", more than seven would be acceptable as long as all have a reasonably high chance of being town.

The names dropped between 1082 and 1498 are from a willingness to compromise. I

want

Rautherdir in; I'm willing to let him go, because the proposed names I still trust to all be town.

[Ranger]

Sure but from Aureals perspective it should have been chronologically impossible for her to conclude you couldn't be masons with Drew due to your effort spent sorting Drew because you didn't publicly do it until after Aureal expressed doubts about you being masons with Drew

Much as I suspect Aureal, my Doctor Drew read visibly shifted in my lists prior to publicly expressing reasons. That's enough to generate "not masons", so if Aureal's scum, it's not for this.

[usesPython]

Sure but from Aureals perspective it should have been chronologically impossible for her to conclude you couldn't be masons with Drew due to your effort spent sorting Drew because you didn't publicly do it until after Aureal expressed doubts about you being masons with Drew

Much as I suspect Aureal, my Doctor Drew read visibly shifted in my lists prior to publicly expressing reasons. That's enough to generate "not masons", so if Aureal's scum, it's not for this.

If that was the case then 1178 wouldn't be a thing because she'd be able to point to those shifts as the reasoning instead of assuming phantom memories (which I can believe too but still)

[Ranger]

• If you're looking for town you look for signs of towniness.
  
• If you're looking for 3p you look for signs of unaligned scumminess (which D1 will involve pre-flip associatives if you're not groupscum)
  
• If you're looking for groupscum you look for signs of aligned scumminess (which D1 will involve pre-flip associatives if you're not groupscum)

Ranger thinks Drew had some towniness and some scumminess and also has the people she's scumreading be pushing Drew both on and off wagon which would point to Drew being either 3p or Town

This is accurate, and as a reminder, is a large part of the Kyoko Kirigiri scumread.

[Ranger]

I'm processing 1635; I don't have further commentary rn yet wanted to acknowledge I've seen the point.

[Ranger]

It's a lot of words (in a post complaining about someone using a lot of words) to make the point "I'm town therefore pushing me is bad and suspicious." Which is crap. Because 1) everyone is going to say they're town but some are lying, and 2) townies don't know who all is town so they're gonna push town a lot, analyzing the reasoning for the push is needed.

This is a funny way of agreeing with my own logic as the 'lot of words' explained why I felt the push was suspicious by analyzing the reasoning for the push and concluding Kyoko Kirigiri's push was +scum.

[Ranger]

one is dismissive and the other is to keep it as mystery. They are classified as very different approaches in my head, which was one of the stuff that bugged me almost immediately about your responses - leading me to vote you saying I'm not satisfied and I need more form you.

But when you wrote this I kinda see it from another angle now and getting a new perspective on this

I'm interested in what this alleged new perspective is from the alt angle.

[Ranger]

{usesPython}
{Radical Rat, Abnegation, Rautherdir, Doctor Drew}
{KatyKimFanclub}
{Morning Tweet, camelCasedSnivy, sheepsaysmeep, Titus, Save The Dragons}
{DragonEater70, Flea The Magician}
{Random Nurse}
{WhemeStar, Aureal, Kyoko Kirigiri}
{Merlyn}

This is about where I'm at reads-wise rn.

[Ranger]

Changed my mind.

{usesPython}
{Radical Rat, Abnegation, Rautherdir, Doctor Drew}
{Titus, KatyKimFanclub}
{Morning Tweet, camelCasedSnivy, sheepsaysmeep, Save The Dragons}
{DragonEater70, Flea The Magician}
{Random Nurse}
{WhemeStar, Aureal, Kyoko Kirigiri}
{Merlyn}

[camelCasedSnivy]

ok then

im fine with either proposal so i can switch to kyoko if it means we can get a vote in

also python im not voting for yours under any circumstances lmao

[usesPython]

The problem with democracy is that I don't get what I personally want B(

The proposal I'd actually want would be a modified 1082 adding Titus in (as 1082 was prior to gaining a townread on her).

I don't really care about "seven names exactly", more than seven would be acceptable as long as all have a reasonably high chance of being town.

The names dropped between 1082 and 1498 are from a willingness to compromise. I

want

Rautherdir in; I'm willing to let him go, because the proposed names I still trust to all be town.

HURT: Doctor Drew, Ranger, usesPython, Abnegation, KatyKimFanclub, Rautherdir, Radical Rat, sheepsaysmeep, Morning Tweet, camelCasedSnivy

Probably scum in this but ok

[usesPython]

HURT: Doctor Drew, Ranger, usesPython, Abnegation, KatyKimFanclub, Rautherdir, Radical Rat, sheepsaysmeep, Morning Tweet, camelCasedSnivy, Titus

Forgot Titus

[Radical Rat]

Well, so much for not splitting the vote prematurely.

[camelCasedSnivy]

Well, so much for not splitting the vote prematurely.

smh fine

VOTE: Merlyn

[usesPython]

Well, so much for not splitting the vote prematurely.

This is a pretty optimal vote if we're understanding what's going on correctly, if you disagree feel free to add as many people as you think are town + Ranger into the nightmare

Well, so much for not splitting the vote prematurely.

smh fine

VOTE: Merlyn

We're talking Nightmare proposals not the lim

[camelCasedSnivy]

Well, so much for not splitting the vote prematurely.

smh fine

VOTE: Merlyn

We're talking Nightmare proposals not the lim

oh

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Wheme

[Ranger]

Refusing. This is a roadmap for scum kills.

As a general note; I'm of a generation which saw town players argue this as a reason against providing readslists.

This was silly, imo, because scum reading the game and paying attention to who's saying what about which players already have a roadmap regardless of stated reads. Any scum player not reading the game/paying attention isn't going to use the lists; any scum player who is, doesn't need them. Part of scum's job is to pay attention for who're the most townread players; they usually do so no matter the presence/absence of lists.