Newbie 688 - Game Over, Mafia Wins!

[springlullaby]

I owe this game so much, and am a bad bad IC.

At this point of the game, I feel totally disconnected, I'm giving this a reread. I've noticed while skimming over the last page that Crysnia's has been stepping up a bit, so I'd like to know what has come of her suspicion of me.

I totally do not like that last post from mrfixij but I'll let people answer for themselves.

I also do not like BM changing vote after vote, I remember town BM being more fixated and affirmative than that.

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Page 20 Votecount

WeatheredClown: (1/5) Battle Mage,
Crysnia: (1/5) springlullaby,
mrfixij: (0/5)
Alduskkel: (0/5)
Moses le fou: (1/5) orangepenguin,
Scheherazade: (0/5)
Battle Mage: (3/5) Scheherazade, Moses le fou, mrfixij,
springlullaby: (0/5)
orangepenguin: (1/5) Crysnia,

Not Voting: (2/9) WeatheredClown, Alduskkel,

With 9 alive, it's 5 to lynch!
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[Alduskkel]

Looking at WC's posts, I'm not so sure that he has been riding the vibe of the town. He's given his own reasons for things. I find it interesting that he crumbled so easily. Also, care to tell us how you went from Post 319 to Post 355?

I'd still like an answer to this, WC.

[Moses le fou]

I totally do not like that last post from mrfixij but I'll let people answer for themselves.

Why not? I can definitely see where he's coming from.

[Battle Mage]

I owe this game so much, and am a bad bad IC.

At this point of the game, I feel totally disconnected, I'm giving this a reread. I've noticed while skimming over the last page that Crysnia's has been stepping up a bit, so I'd like to know what has come of her suspicion of me.

I totally do not like that last post from mrfixij but I'll let people answer for themselves.

I also do not like BM changing vote after vote, I remember town BM being more fixated and affirmative than that.

See Return of the Mafia. One of the my favourite protown performances ever. i jumped from player to player there too. It's a protown play which really pays off if people can commit to it.

BM

[vollkan]

WeatheredClown, Crysnia, Scheherazade, and orangepenguin have been prodded.

Also: I am setting a retractable deadline for Sunday 14th December at 6:00pm GMT+10

[Alduskkel]

WeatheredClown, Crysnia, Scheherazade, and orangepenguin have been prodded.

Also: I am setting a retractable deadline for Sunday 14th December at 6:00pm GMT+10

[vollkan]

WeatheredClown, Crysnia, Scheherazade, and orangepenguin have been prodded.

Also: I am setting a retractable deadline for Sunday 14th December at 6:00pm GMT+10

13: If discussion lags, I reserve the right to exercise my discretion to impose a deadline.

[Alduskkel]

Yeah I know... I've just had some bad experiences with deadlines lately.

One guy got lynched with 2 votes in a 17 player game (don't ask).

Another time we failed to lynch someone and then the scum got a free night kill. To add injury to injury, the night kill was me.

And no, I have not revealed any crucial information about those games.

[Moses le fou]

OK, maybe we should try to reach some sort of compromise vote? Right now, BM's in the lead (and we all know how I feel about that), but if enough of us agree that somebody else might be a safer choice, I'm willing to switch over for the sake of avoiding a no-lynch.

In addition to BM, WC, Crysnia, penguin and I each have a vote. I'm obviously not voting for myself. Does anybody want to argue as to why we SHOULDN'T lynch any of those people? Maybe if we can narrow it down to one or two choices, a consensus will be easier to reach.

[Crysnia]

Moses is right. If Volkan is imposing a deadline, then we definitely should come to a consensus soon.

Obviously, I'm not going to vote for myself. I do feel comfortable in my vote for Orange though because he has admitted to doing nothing for day one or day two and that is his game plan. I don't like the idea of someone not helping us and getting a free ride for two days.

[Alduskkel]

Vote: WeatheredClown

I'm getting tired of waiting; its been 8 days since he last posted. Holidays only excuse one so far. If he (or his successor as it may be) can answer my accusations then I will withdraw my vote.

Again, here are my accusations:

Looking at WC's posts, I'm not so sure that he has been riding the vibe of the town. He's given his own reasons for things. I find it interesting that he crumbled so easily. Also, care to tell us how you went from Post 319 to Post 355?

The crumbling is a scumtell because that in itself is riding the vibe of the town; you're going with the flow. And posts 319 and 355 makes it seem like WC was opportunistically voting for BM. But I can't explain why WC later unvoted... BM would be a pretty good lynch for the scum if he's pro-town because they could just say, "Well, BM was acting suspicious to everyone so it's not a scumtell that I voted for him."

In any case, maybe my vote will get him to talk more.

Just read through Weathered Clown's posts in isolation. Quite amusing really. The only negative comment he makes about either of my precursors is that "Panamon seems a bit shady" on page 1. He fails to elaborate any more, merely choosing to repeat that Panamon is his top suspect, and anyone replacing him will have a tough job on their hands.

Perhaps you might like to elaborate on why you are voting for me, or why you were suspicious of Panamon, because so far you've been remarkably quiet on this, for someone who casts an L-1 vote.

BM

admittedly, I'm not as wordy as you guys are.. which is not to say that I don't participate to the conversation, and attempt to participate meaningfully. I do however tend to make posts surrounding other posts that I either agree with or disagree with and the posts should be read in the context of the posts around them.

Given that as my M.O., I wouldn't be surprised if a filter of just my posts would not be as useful as a reading of my posts as part of the larger conversation.

I do admit that I made my comment about an uphill battle based on the state of the game when your predecessor subbed in, rather than when you subbed in, because I felt like the overall impression by most players was that you were inheriting a scum role.

The votes seem to bear this out as continuing to be the prevailing sentiment.

Now you see, this is the thing i am having trouble with. When i speak to you, i want YOUR opinion, not the opinion of the majority. The majority is bound to be affected by scum, whereas if you are town, your opinion is something we can work with. I really hate these generalisations, because it sounds like you aren't playing the game for yourself, and are instead riding on the vibe of the town.

I'm still interested to hear why you think Panamon was scummy enough for me to warrant being at -1 atm.

BM

Ok... I'll admit to riding on the vibe of the town.

!unvote

Honestly.. one of my strongest suspects is still Alduskkel.. who I admire for having put 5 hours into pouring through the thread (which resulted in a very long email) but then has had very little to say since then other than flinging about fingers of suspicion. What I would like to see is how we could start bringing the group to a consensus, but we all still seem entirely fragmented and unable to make progress.

I've also been suspicious of myfixitj off and on for the entire game, so I should perhaps be a little bit weary persuing votes for my two lead suspects (Alduskkel and BM) since those are also his.

what happened to this ^ ??

You have some serious inconsistency issues. You always end up back at the default point-going with the majority.

I'm not sure how that post is going with the majority, BM. Inconsistent, yes, but if you mean he's being inconsistent by moving around his vote then I'm more guilty of that than anyone, most likely.

But wishy-washiness isn't a scumtell, in my opinion. Some players are just like that, such as me.

[WeatheredClown]

Sorry.. after the holiday I forgot about this game.

Looking at WC's posts, I'm not so sure that he has been riding the vibe of the town. He's given his own reasons for things. I find it interesting that he crumbled so easily. Also, care to tell us how you went from Post 319 to Post 355?

I'd still like an answer to this, WC.

Umm.. post 319 to post 355 seems like a logical transition to me. I said that in order to move the game along, BM was a reasonable choice that it seemed likely that we could reach consensus on. At the same time, I'll admit that I've been using other people's summaries of the situations just as often as using my own reads on the things those people were reacting to (because day 1 has been so long).. which I'll admit is "riding the town vibe".

I totally do not like that last post from mrfixij but I'll let people answer for themselves.

Why not? I can definitely see where he's coming from.

Yeah.. I don't like it either.. I happen to agree with Crysnia's points, and am trying to reach a consensus (the two of us are definately in the same position right now of having swing votes that could end the day) so I'll admit to a conspiratorial tone there, but I can assure you that its entirely innocent.

OK, maybe we should try to reach some sort of compromise vote? Right now, BM's in the lead (and we all know how I feel about that), but if enough of us agree that somebody else might be a safer choice, I'm willing to switch over for the sake of avoiding a no-lynch.

In addition to BM, WC, Crysnia, penguin and I each have a vote. I'm obviously not voting for myself. Does anybody want to argue as to why we SHOULDN'T lynch any of those people? Maybe if we can narrow it down to one or two choices, a consensus will be easier to reach.

Careful Moses... I also tried to encourage the group to reach a consensus, but was accused of riding the town vibe and acting like a scum buddy.. Tread lightly.

The crumbling is a scumtell because that in itself is riding the vibe of the town; you're going with the flow. And posts 319 and 355 makes it seem like WC was opportunistically voting for BM. But I can't explain why WC later unvoted... BM would be a pretty good lynch for the scum if he's pro-town because they could just say, "Well, BM was acting suspicious to everyone so it's not a scumtell that I voted for him."

I'm "crumbling" because I don't yet have a strong opinion, and having put somebody at L-1 I wanted to step away from that as tempting fate..

but I may as well go for it..

!vote BM

[Alduskkel]

I suppose that answers my accusations, WC.

Unvote: WeatheredClown

[Alduskkel]

I'm not sure why people are voting for BM... is it because of what Panamon did or because of what BM has done?

If it is because of what Panamon did then I'd like to say that Panamon hasn't done anything scummy in my opinion. Supposedly, Panamon encouraged rule breaking to add chaos to the game; however the rule broken wasn't even a rule at the time. So that's a null tell. Also, Panamon voted for Mastin based on a scummy vibe, and some people say that isn't enough evidence to constitute a vote. But Panamon was about as newbie as you can get and can we expect a complete newbie to know what constitutes a good vote? I'm sure a lot of you know what makes a good vote now, but did you then?

If it's something that BM has done, I'd like to hear what specific scum tell he has committed.

[Crysnia]

So in your defense of Panamon/BM, you are stating that voting for someone based on a scummy vibe is an acceptable thing?

[Alduskkel]

So in your defense of Panamon/BM, you are stating that voting for someone based on a scummy vibe is an acceptable thing?

In Panamon's case, yes.

[orangepenguin]

I still am not convinced about Panamon/BM. But I will unvote, since it is unlikely to go any further. Oh..bold-

unvote

.

[mrfixij]

Let the record show that I hereby suggest an anti-pairing between BM and WC. If BM is town, WC is most likely scum, and vice-versa.

[Alduskkel]

Let the record show that I hereby suggest an anti-pairing between BM and WC. If BM is town, WC is most likely scum, and vice-versa.

Why? I was leaning more towards an anti-pairing of Moses and BM.

[WeatheredClown]

Let the record show that I hereby suggest an anti-pairing between BM and WC. If BM is town, WC is most likely scum, and vice-versa.

This is the first I've heard of such a thing. It sounds neat.

[orangepenguin]

OR...they both could be scum, and they were distancing. So there isn't such a thing as "anti-pair".

Let's not confirm another player just because we find out Player A is town or scum, because you never know for sure.

It might sound neat, but it's a stupid idea.

[Moses le fou]

OR...they both could be scum, and they were distancing. So there isn't such a thing as "anti-pair".

Let's not confirm another player just because we find out Player A is town or scum, because you never know for sure.

It might sound neat, but it's a stupid idea.

I wouldn't confirm a player for being strongly against somebody who flipped scum, but it definitely helps the case, no?

[Battle Mage]

OR...they both could be scum, and they were distancing. So there isn't such a thing as "anti-pair".

Let's not confirm another player just because we find out Player A is town or scum, because you never know for sure.

It might sound neat, but it's a stupid idea.

I wouldn't confirm a player for being strongly against somebody who flipped scum, but it definitely helps the case, no?

No. Lol. Bussing is more common in newbie games than anywhere else on site, for the simple reason that Newbies tend to see the game as such:

If i die, my buddy needs to take it to the hoop for me. As such, id better make sure we dont look like partners.

Obviously this isnt great logic knowing what we know. But from my own experience, it does happen.

BM

[mrfixij]

I know it's not an empirical grounds, but if you look at the momentum shift when WC placed a vote on BM, it doesn't seem like bussing. Between WC and Crysania, they seem to be expressing an impatience with the day and urging it to be over sooner. Then BM's wagon seems to be losing steam, so WC tries to rebuild momentum on a BM wagon by putting him at L-1. I'm very tempted to unvote right now just because I think a lynch is premature.

Consider this. WC claims to be riding the vibe of town. Riding the vibe. This indicates some kind of distancing from town, as if she is not a part of it, but instead trying to find what it is that town is collectively feeling and becoming part of it. I consider this to be a soft scumclaim. Especially with the slightly scummy exchange between WC and Crysania (another high-pri suspect of mine) and the momentum shift which became evident when WC voted for BM. In fact, I'm going to take the initiative and undo that momentum swing.

unvote: BM
Vote: weathered Clown

Quit riding the vibe and start playing the part, if you're town. If you're scum, I'm more than happy to lynch you.

[Alduskkel]

Yeah, I've noticed that scum really like to bus in newbie games. Almost to the point that scum might look more pro-town by not bussing their partner. After all, what Mafia would be so obvious as to look connected to another Mafia?

This is all WIFOM though.