Open 104 - The New C9 - Game Over

[M1KEMMIEMIEMKEMIKE]

zhaorx.

snorlax weighs 1014.1 lbs. (460.0kg),

you may fight with anyone you please.

[zhaorx]

hold on i'll quote stef's two posts and dissect them real quick. i did so mentally but did not post my thoughts.

[Sun Tzu]

Atak, tell me you're just trying to press my buttons or something.

Actually, I think pushing your buttons would be a very revealing exercise, but that wasn't my intent.

You subbed into the game and placed a vote on the person you had subbed for. Should I have referred to it differently?

I guess my point is you're on the wrong track. You're looking at the wrong things. I was light-hearted when I made the self-vote. I got serious when people called it a mistake. That's role-independent. I'm a villager here and I don't feel very light-hearted at the moment.

This is the same mistake Hitch and Dustin used to make. They got the idea that wagoning me would reveal my role, except I think they assumed if I got "emo" or "meltdown" or whatever, it meant I was villager. You've looked at that game and assumed the opposite.

Maybe you should look at this game where I was lynched day 1 as a villager:

http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/ ... hp?t=16669

And here's one where I was scum and didn't get any heat:

http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/ ... hp?t=16825

I think I should be easy to read but no one knows what to look for.

[Sun Tzu]

Zhaorx, what are your reads so far?

[zhaorx]

Christ.. play newbie games before joining normal games. Behavior like this ruins games. I'm seriously considering asking for a replacement.

I assumed Stef was talking to OMG and myself. I don't understand where he comes to the conclusion that either of us are newbies or that we don't belong in this game. I don't understand how "behavior like this ruins games." I don't understand why he's considering asking for a replacement. Basically this post came off to me like Stef thinks he is king of mafia and we're not in his league and whatever he says goes and whatever he says is right...basically I'm pretty turned off to this attitude.

There's no drama. I simply can't believe that in mere hours since the topic has been unlocked people started setting up lynches and NK's and started claiming. It's no drama. It's a simple fact that such play is ruining this game.

How is there no drama? You're the one starting things with a holier than thou attitude. "I simply can't believe blah blah" and "It's simple fact blah blah" wow can you be more arrogant?

Setting up wagons based on.. well.. nothing and i doubt you could actually justify what you said as a joke or as something backed up by evidence since there is no way you could make such a statement based on how little we know. The reasoning you gave is clearly bullshit since SC has not made any statements about who he's going to vote today and siesta. Also, their posts don't appear to be forced at all. You also state that MIKE is probably not a villager when you have NO evidence of that. And how do we know that scott didn't "peek" ( which i presume means "investigate" ) siesta since scott hasn't even posted so far? Your posts are full of crap and mostly you make no sense. You are hurting the town and the game since your actions aren't justifiable even if you were scum.

How the hell is it best to just claim straight up? And how the hell is it best to draw night kills? Also, how does claiming anything clears you as town at this stage? It's simply mind-numbing.

It's clear that at least both of you have not studied what a forum based mafia is played like on this site. Also, what is the rush for anything? Don't you know that ONE game day on this forum can take up to a month and a half? Geez.

And you call these fact drama. Even more reason you should join a newbie game before joining a normal one. Also, try adopting the terms used on this site. I.e. it's not werewolf, it's mafia or scum.

Ok, I've set up wagons? WTF does this even mean? I have suggested who I think are the scum candidates. I'm not justifying anything as a joke, I'm using the partial information I have obtained to make an educated decision on who is scum. The reasoning I gave is bullshit? i explained why i listed those two particular players after YOU asked me to. If you think my reads are incorrect then so be it. I state MIKE is not a villager because I THINK he isn't a villager. My evidence is tone and the fact that I have played with Mike before leads me to believe he isn't a villager right now. how in the world do you presume to know what evidence i have or don't have. RE: scott howard. of course we don't know scott didn't investigate siera. he hasn't even posted. i don't even understand what your point is. if scott howard had actually peeked siera as a townie then i would obviously wait to resolve siera at a later date and not now. if you think my posts are full of crap and make no sense then ignore it or ask me to clarify things for you? you asked me to clarify why siesta and cougar and i did.

You then criticize OMG for his claim further. If you think this play is bad, that is fine..it is your opinion. You then insult myself and OMG for not knowing how to play this game on this site, etc. Again you reiterate that we should join newbie games.
You haven't listed much facts, just a bunch of your opinions. And yet you criticize others for having their own opinions. See how I am confused? Basically you came off as being overcocky/overarrogant thinking that only your line of thinking/ways is correct when this is a team game with the thoughts of 20 players.

[Sun Tzu]

Yo, fuckin snorlax owns in this movie.

[zhaorx]

Zhaorx, what are your reads so far?

OMG - more likely townie than anything else. being a townie makes more sense than any other role right now. terrible to resolve on day 1

atak - i'll be honest here and say that this is atakdog's scummier side that we have seen so far. obviously will resolve later

mike - ok this is not m1ke's vanillager game. It simply doesn't feel right at all.

siesta - good logic so far. more likely a townie

hewitt - middle of the road approach right now. could go either way with him right now.

[darkdude]

Vote Count for Day 1

There are 20 Alive, so 11 to Lynch

matrix [3] (atakdog, Hitch, M1KEMMIEMIEMKEMIKE, )
zhaorx [3] (omg_im_innocent_wtf, StrangerCoug, Stef, )

omg_im_innocent_wtf [2] (oEJo, ZazieR, )
StrangerCoug [2] (Caboose, zhaorx, )
The Central Scrutinizer [1] (SiestaGuru, )
ScottHoward [1] (gusmahler, )
M1KEMMIEMIEMKEMIKE [1] (Mada, )
The Fonz [0] ()
Caboose [0] ()
Sun Tzu [0] ()
Stef [0] ()
atakdog [0] ()
gusmahler [0] ()
SiestaGuru [0] ()
Hitch [0] ()
hewitt [0] ()
Wall-E [0] ()
oEJo [0] ()
Mada [0] ()
ZazieR [0] ()

No Lynch [0] ()

Not Voting [7] (The Fonz, Sun Tzu, matrix, ScottHoward, hewitt, Wall-E, The Central Scrutinizer, )

[Sun Tzu]

Zhaorx, what are your reads so far?

OMG - more likely townie than anything else. being a townie makes more sense than any other role right now. terrible to resolve on day 1

atak - i'll be honest here and say that this is atakdog's scummier side that we have seen so far. obviously will resolve later

mike - ok this is not m1ke's vanillager game. It simply doesn't feel right at all.

siesta - good logic so far. more likely a townie

hewitt - middle of the road approach right now. could go either way with him right now.

I agree with most of this. I haven't made up my mind on atakdog yet but he could be evil.

M1ke is probably town.

What's your take on matrix?

[zhaorx]

well consistency isn't matrix's strong suit. thus, i'm not reading a whole lot into that part of it right now. and matrix will vote as he sees fit, so you can't jump to conclusions from that either.

[atakdog]

atak - i'll be honest here and say that this is atakdog's scummier side that we have seen so far. obviously will resolve later

Zhaorx, how many times have you thought I was a villager? (I mean, when you were one too.)

[zhaorx]

atak - i'll be honest here and say that this is atakdog's scummier side that we have seen so far. obviously will resolve later

Zhaorx, how many times have you thought I was a villager? (I mean, when you were one too.)

here's our last 3 games:
matrix's game: i thought u were scum, you were actually the detective
fnord's game: i thought u were scum, you were scum.
well named's game: i thought u were were scum, you were scum.

[matrix]

Matrix made an argument that I

get the impression

he should know better than to make, and then went looking for backup when called on it;

he's mafia

.

you "get the impression" that I mad a post that I wouldn't make as a Townie. but then state that I am Mafia 100% - no room for error.

Sun

seems

slightly forced; he

may

be mafia. M1KE has adopted a style that

seem

s villagery. Zhaorx's disappearance after he started fighting with people

seems

fairly scummy. Stef is hypersensitive, but

I doubt

it's a mafia tell.

all your reads thus far are "maybe" - but I am the only read that you have stated unequivocably. Thats odd.

OMG made an odd, and now countered, claim, but we should give teh bad guys a chance to resolve it.

Why?

OMG is only getting NKed if he is a Townie AND if the Scum think there's a better than anyone else chance that he has a significant Town power role.

If he IS a significant power role thats not Scummy his original claim is just lol bad. Or at the very least very very risky, and an experienced player whom he claims to be is highly unlikely to make such a claim as a Power role, so all this pussyfooting around and hinting at but not stating that "we think he's the [insert preferred role here]" is pointless cos if you and I can see that it stands to reason that the Scum can as well, and they have several heads to think about this stuff at night, we have to play by ourselves bereft of such help.

He's a misguided Mason - he's Scum - or he's an FPS happy Townie.

OMG is firmly on my slate for lynching - as is m1ke, who jumped conveniently onto my forming wagon with barely a whisper of reasoning as to why in the kind of early jumping on sweet spot so it doesn't look to suspicious later after I turn up innocent when the wagons get analysed later.

we *really* need to hear more from EJ I think.

[zhaorx]

atak,

we've only both been vanillager 1 game and you died day1. we've been wolves together twice. the rest of the games we were opposite factions.

[Sun Tzu]

I'm not very good at reading matrix, but this looks like his villager game to me.

[Stef]

Ehm.. i found one of your games.. 125 pages in 9 days.. jeez...

[Sun Tzu]

atak - i'll be honest here and say that this is atakdog's scummier side that we have seen so far. obviously will resolve later

Zhaorx, how many times have you thought I was a villager? (I mean, when you were one too.)

How many times have you been a villager when he was one too?

[atakdog]

atak - i'll be honest here and say that this is atakdog's scummier side that we have seen so far. obviously will resolve later

Zhaorx, how many times have you thought I was a villager? (I mean, when you were one too.)

here's our last 3 games:
matrix's game: i thought u were scum, you were actually the detective
fnord's game: i thought u were scum, you were scum.
well named's game: i thought u were were scum, you were scum.

Right. And you could throw in a few others, too, and if my recollection is correct there hasn't been a single game in which town Zhaorx believed, correctly or incorrectly, that atak was town.

[atakdog]

atak,

we've only both been vanillager 1 game and you died day1. we've been wolves together twice. the rest of the games we were opposite factions.

Yes, I get that. I'm not saying you always misread me -- we don't know whether you do. I'm pointing out that you have no particular reason to believe you read me right.

[hewitt]

Zhaorx, what are your reads so far?

OMG - more likely townie than anything else. being a townie makes more sense than any other role right now. terrible to resolve on day 1

atak - i'll be honest here and say that this is atakdog's scummier side that we have seen so far. obviously will resolve later

mike - ok this is not m1ke's vanillager game. It simply doesn't feel right at all.

siesta - good logic so far. more likely a townie

hewitt - middle of the road approach right now. could go either way with him right now.

I was in class otherwise I would've posted sooner but yeah that's fair to say I've been pretty middle of the road so far. Here's my deal with some of the players.

I still don't get why matrix was so quick to create this plan to lynch one of the claimers, that was just a little suspicious to me and right now my vote is on him BUT after reading what you dissected from stef's posts I've been looking over everything he's been saying because I didn't really notice that before so thank you for dissecting it and I'm gonna keep a closer eye on him so right now I a) don't know whose side to really take it's pretty iffy but b) my vote as of right now is going towards either matrix or stef.

[hewitt]

And here's the deal with previous games, I don't really give as much of a crap as apparently many other people in this game too about past games. Partially because I'm newer but mostly because it's the past. I would assume that whoever's mafia would get smarter each game and know how to play differently then past games. Where it gets tricky is could that be their strategy? To convince everyone that they wouldn't be dumb enough to play the same way twice? Or to point out the differences, I just don't know. To me, what's past is past and I'm going to focus on the right now.

[M1KEMMIEMIEMKEMIKE]

thast probably a leak^^^^


analyzing tendancies always going to be important, u cant deny it. its just another too for villagers to utilize

[atakdog]

you "get the impression" that I mad a post that I wouldn't make as a Townie. but then state that I am Mafia 100% - no room for error.

...

all your reads thus far are "maybe" - but I am the only read that you have stated unequivocably. Thats odd.

The post you're quoting was written for someone who was whining about my using data from past games, so I elided it -- and it left only inconconclusive guesses. Funny, that.

OMG made an odd, and now countered, claim, but we should give teh bad guys a chance to resolve it.

Why?

Because there are explanations other than OMG=scum, some of which would put the scum in a position wherein they would want to resolve the claim themselves.

OMG is only getting NKed if he is a Townie AND if the Scum think there's a better than anyone else chance that he has a significant Town power role.

If he IS a significant power role thats not Scummy his original claim is just lol bad. Or at the very least very very risky, and an experienced player whom he claims to be is highly unlikely to make such a claim as a Power role, so all this pussyfooting around and hinting at but not stating that "we think he's the [insert preferred role here]" is pointless cos if you and I can see that it stands to reason that the Scum can as well, and they have several heads to think about this stuff at night, we have to play by ourselves bereft of such help.

People do things that are lol-bad as vanillagers, village power roles, and wolves. In fact, we know that the claim was awful if it's true (in light of the counter), and moderately awful if the two of them are both scum (because it's probably a bad tradeoff). And I agree that it's at least borderline awful, in this environment, as a non-mason power role, and it's really, really awful if he's vanilla town So we can pretty well conclude that it's awful, and therefore that we, who believe ourselves not to be awful, would not have done it as any role. that in turn compounds the difficulty for us of assessing his likely role, because we have trouble putting ourselves in his position.

[M1KEMMIEMIEMKEMIKE]

Matrix,

so you're saying a vanilla townie (like myself) can never make a vote on you in that spot?

lol?

i already stated i have strong villa read on atakdog, i agree with his thinking here. Simply writing "this" and quoting his thought process on u is pretty = to just voting u.

d u c y?

[zhaorx]

the blind man (m1ke) following the one eyed man (atakdog) this is somewhat amusing