Micro 1089: the coalition, again [game over]

fireisredsir · Thu Jul 20, 2023 2:49 pm

In post 1252, Thestatusquo wrote: Disappointed we didn't get fires take on this important issue

sorry not on this one

fireisredsir · Thu Jul 20, 2023 4:56 pm

In post 1259, sheepsaysmeep wrote: I havent even processed whether I agree with limming inside a failed coalition lmaoo

like it makes sense but I have not played this setup before and I will take my brain there if it loses and I need to

that's standard yea and i remember being confused by it last time and then did the math wrong and then someone told me i was dumb and i accepted that

but i don't really remember why

fireisredsir · Thu Jul 20, 2023 5:02 pm

In post 1257, sheepsaysmeep wrote:
In post 1004, Aristeia wrote: what would make this game fun for you?
In post 1005, Thestatusquo wrote: Not being town probably.
In post 1010, Thestatusquo wrote: And in my last scum game I was the highest post count player by a lot.

See this is a disingenuous argument. You're trying to tell half narratives to paint some kind of story that I'm scum in this game but your facts are either cherry picked or just wrong.
tbh this seems just kinda inaccurate, even/odd micro shea felt dead inside as scum and tried to self-meta as town lol

i did have this thought too but idk if it really matters to me

fireisredsir · Thu Jul 20, 2023 5:16 pm

ari who are your strongest townreads atp?

fireisredsir · Thu Jul 20, 2023 5:30 pm

In post 1272, Aristeia wrote: i dunno im kinda tipsy and tired

im still not sure if shea is scum or just wrongtown

ok well lmk in the morning ig

fireisredsir · Thu Jul 20, 2023 5:34 pm

In post 1273, sheepsaysmeep wrote: fire why am I towny

i felt like you weren't performing early or really trying to get townread particularly

the way you approached things seemed more like you were uninformed and confused and figuring things out and not like you were positioning and forcing reads for the sake of it

its not super strong bc maybe you just weren't in a rush to do that and only started picking up the pace recently but idk

i did believe what i said in the sk game, i townread you pretty strongly, and i was right, and it feels similar enough to me

fireisredsir · Thu Jul 20, 2023 5:36 pm

yea i am interested in the people that you want to try to convince other people that they're town

fireisredsir · Thu Jul 20, 2023 5:39 pm

on a scale of 1 to towny sheep is like a 6.5

fireisredsir · Fri Jul 21, 2023 5:23 am

In post 1337, Isis wrote: If shea is scum I think it's pretty gutsy to advocate for townbulge rn
If shea is not scum shea is a decent player bet it's a good read
On average the 7 slots that are not bulge or best lulu NA have more scum equity amongst them than feels average for a game and therefore the afk player is above rand to be town

i don't like this and the reasoning doesn't check out imo

in shea town world: shea townread bulge for being on his side in the shea vs ari debate. if ari is town, bulge scum equity goes way up. it doesn't make sense for you to make a coalition with ari and bulge if it's partially based on shea's townread because if ari is town then shea's basis for his worldview is wrong

in shea scum world: idk why it being gutsy for shea to advocate for town bulge has an effect on your perception bulge's alignment. it sounds like it would have an effect on your perception of shea's alignment, but you didn't include him, you included bulge. you'd have to be saying that scum shea is significantly more likely to push for town bulge being town than he is to push for scum bulge being town and im just not really sure why that would be the case? both are arguably gutsy and only one of them potentially helps him

fireisredsir · Fri Jul 21, 2023 5:32 am

In post 1343, Aristeia wrote: HURT: all
HEAL: tsq, fireisredsir, skitter, tris, sheep

this is actually kinda where im at rn although im not that confident

fireisredsir · Fri Jul 21, 2023 5:33 am

In post 1340, Isis wrote: I don't feel strongly about that slot

you don't have to feel strongly but i am not sure why you justified it in the way that you did

fireisredsir · Fri Jul 21, 2023 5:49 am

yeah probably

fireisredsir · Fri Jul 21, 2023 6:02 am

i am not

fireisredsir · Fri Jul 21, 2023 6:06 am

In post 1375, Isis wrote: I feel sad I have bared my soul to this game and literally nobody values me

I feel like if was scum I would like have at least one synthetic read a couple people half agree with and I would be participating in the board meeting

I've never felt so on the margins with this amount of participation

i value your presence

i don't know what you mean by bared your soul and nobody values you. from the other bits of the post it sounds like you're saying that nobody values your reads. which reads do you feel like you have bared your soul on? i can look over them again if you want

fireisredsir · Fri Jul 21, 2023 6:07 am

In post 1382, Isis wrote:
In post 1379, fireisredsir wrote: i am not
Is that @ the first part of Shea's post or the second

the second ofc sorry for ambiguity

fireisredsir · Fri Jul 21, 2023 6:16 am

In post 214, Isis wrote: Tbqh skitter does not have mate in seven setup so shes probably town

In post 704, Isis wrote: Skitter hasn't felt as present as usual and I think it's not a Saturday thing?

In post 788, Isis wrote: Whoa skitter is town

In post 797, Isis wrote: The universe doesn't have enough cruelty for skitter to be scum the first time she agreed with me ever

Esp since buttering me up when I have no thread control is mid

In post 879, Isis wrote: I think Ari, skitter, and hellbooks could have more thread control if they wanted it. I think shea isn't lying about being frustrated about the social graph of this playerlist regardless his alignment so that would reduce his ability to control the thread or at least the wisdom of forcibly doing so.

In post 962, Isis wrote: Aristeia and skitter
I think skitter does not know who is important to push because she doesnt know who the mafia is

these are the posts i can find with reasoning about skitter (3rd one loosely implies reasoning since it's a response to some skitter posting)

i think these are like, okay takes. i think the "doesn't have a plan and doesn't know who to push" is a decent metric for reading but im not sure why it applies to skitter above other people. i think the only people who have felt like they really fit the description of "they know who to push" this game have been ari and shea

i don't mean to diminish the value of your reads or your feelings anything but this doesn't really feel like the kind of thing where you poured your heart out onto the page and then got ignored at least from what i see

fireisredsir · Fri Jul 21, 2023 6:24 am

i think that once i stopped townreading hellbooks, ever since then it became hard not to see her tossing little crumbs of game content out into the void as scum trying to re-engage and establish self and thats pretty unfair bc she'd probably have to do similar as town too

fireisredsir · Fri Jul 21, 2023 6:29 am

In post 1414, Aristeia wrote:
In post 1409, Isis wrote: 2:7 vanilla is really hard for town and setup is massively easier if you pick a 5 with only one scum and then divide and conquer

i think the way this setup usually gets played is you try to get 5 obvtown and just win that way but this game doesnt feel that easy because some people enjoy shitposting or dont even exist so I'm going the route of crossing as many teams out as I can and then deathmatching the leftovers

which teams have you crossed out?

fireisredsir · Fri Jul 21, 2023 6:30 am

oh okay

fireisredsir · Fri Jul 21, 2023 6:43 am

In post 1435, hellbooks wrote: Everyone would be like "oh shes so back. The hellbooks we all love and cherish"

i cannot wait for this day to come

fireisredsir · Fri Jul 21, 2023 6:49 am

re:isis that is a pretty fun car but i don't think that wins

fireisredsir · Fri Jul 21, 2023 6:51 am

not quoting but i think thats pretty decent

fireisredsir · Fri Jul 21, 2023 7:02 am

In post 1456, Isis wrote:If fire is town I'm sorry for my persistent skepticism

i don't mind. same to you!!

fireisredsir · Fri Jul 21, 2023 7:04 am

In post 1461, Isis wrote: I think skitter pushing a tris scumread that is probably right, to the exclusion of accomplishing anything to pick the winners of any of the spotlighted conflicts, but without feeling uncomfortable interacting with the spotlighted conflicts really points to her being town.

im pretty sure tris is skitter's strongest townread?

fireisredsir · Fri Jul 21, 2023 7:08 am

In post 1465, sheepsaysmeep wrote:
In post 1463, Isis wrote: Focusing on sheep also does not advance her agenda with like any partner
in terms of normal forum mafia outside of coalition I tend to be a very good option to mislim mid-later game so I can technically seeee the scum purpose

hey. me too

hm.

fireisredsir · Fri Jul 21, 2023 7:13 am

guardians of the forest sounds like something from the warrior cats game

fireisredsir · Fri Jul 21, 2023 8:37 am

In post 1537, skitter30 wrote: I think scum doesnt particularly care abt who's in the coalition until it starts to coalesce, at whicu point they really care

I think it's better 1in 1out but idk if i've ever played a run where scum were purposefully aiming for that outcome, i think it's normally just trying for at least one getting in

i think this was a strategy point in the datisi/std team when they played

fireisredsir · Fri Jul 21, 2023 8:38 am

if i were scum here i would definitely be playing to have 1 in 1 out from the start

fireisredsir · Fri Jul 21, 2023 8:38 am

therefore skitter isn't scum with me. easy. one team crossed out

fireisredsir · Fri Jul 21, 2023 10:22 am

In post 1583, Isis wrote: I guess when I say the game has lots of scum equity I doubt basically all my townreads sometimes even Ari

I don't have good scumreads.

Maybe I should be defaulting bulge then idk

i sort of agree with this which is why i was confused by your previous conclusion from this similar premise of "everyone has scum equity so bulge town"

fireisredsir · Fri Jul 21, 2023 12:05 pm

In post 1599, Isis wrote: I'll ask this skitter

How would town Isis look different
I'm pretending to ask to sort you but secretly I want to start doing those things.

Hm if I'm trying to emulate someone else's characterization of my town game as town and am more interested in that than finding scum things aren't going well

this post made me laugh

+0.3 townpoints

fireisredsir · Fri Jul 21, 2023 12:07 pm

it was the bit about things not going well i thought that was funny

fireisredsir · Fri Jul 21, 2023 12:13 pm

In post 1606, Thestatusquo wrote: I find it very hard to believe that bulge has any more scum equity than anyone else and hes a very convenient name to point to for someone who wants a non-controversial take.

it works sometimes in coalition. sometimes scum just get kinda left behind

fireisredsir · Fri Jul 21, 2023 12:16 pm

In post 1628, Thestatusquo wrote:
In post 1625, fireisredsir wrote:
In post 1606, Thestatusquo wrote: I find it very hard to believe that bulge has any more scum equity than anyone else and hes a very convenient name to point to for someone who wants a non-controversial take.
it works sometimes in coalition. sometimes scum just get kinda left behind
I'm not saying that bulge is never scum, though I think I listed some reasons why I independently found him to be kinda townie when he was here.

yea ik, your reasons are dependent on ari scum tho and if ari is town then i think the same post you townread looks really scummy

fireisredsir · Fri Jul 21, 2023 12:21 pm

In post 1159, Thestatusquo wrote: The remaining two in my coalition are weaker. Tris because I kinda do think she got tmi'd and the bulge because he seems to be willing to let me cook.

In post 1197, Thestatusquo wrote: In particular I think bulge could be scum but the way he's approached the thread hasn't felt like someone who was trying to accomplish scum goals to me, especially from my pov of knowing I'm town. Would have been pretty easy for scum bulge to come in here and lightly shade me and given that else was going on thread momentum wise it basically would have gotten rid of any chance of me ever being in a coalition at very little cost to him.

He didn't do that he instead expressed mild support. I'm not sure why he does that as his main thread contribution as scum.

these are the reasons you gave and my understanding is that they are referring to post 1000 which is lightly propping himself up behind you in the shea vs ari argument

lmk if im wrong and/or missing something

fireisredsir · Fri Jul 21, 2023 12:22 pm

i think that if you vs ari is tvs then thats a towny post and if you vs ari is tvt then its a scummy post but maybe you disagree i guess

fireisredsir · Fri Jul 21, 2023 12:38 pm

In post 1640, Thestatusquo wrote:
In post 1636, fireisredsir wrote: i think that if you vs ari is tvs then thats a towny post and if you vs ari is tvt then its a scummy post but maybe you disagree i guess
I'd like the reason for why its a townie post or a scummy post in those worlds pls and thank you.

if ari is scum then i think scum bulge almost never makes that post bc it pushes ari a little further away from coalition and he's not exactly trying to make it in himself. i don't think the distancing is worth it. so if ari is scum then the bulge making that post is more likely to be a town one

but if ari is town and you're also town, then i think lightly taking a side and hiding behind someone else's read is pretty scummy bc it is pushing out a town and also making an ally of a town. i think it would be nearly as scummy if he hid behind ari instead, but i think there were more people at the time who townread you than townread ari (or at least i did lol and maybe that warps my perspective) and so getting on your side seems natural for scum to do there. you're also probably more likely to be receptive to someone joining your side since you seem to have felt a lot of the time like the world is against you here

if ari is town and you're scum then idk it's also lightly scummy due to supporting a partner weakly etc but it doesn't really feel like that is the world here

fireisredsir · Fri Jul 21, 2023 12:47 pm

i think its actually kinda wild to not see "yea sure ill sheep that unexplained secret meta read" as scummy lol

but i can understand that since it came in the form of support to you it feels nicer

fireisredsir · Sat Jul 22, 2023 3:38 pm

In post 1663, sheepsaysmeep wrote: this person is definitely in her town meta according to peoples descriptions of her meta right

i think so although i don't have like an extensive catalog of meta knowledge for her

i like most her of thoughts when catching up tho but i guess thats probably easier to do from the position of most townread person in the game. there's not really ever any need to push an agenda

fireisredsir · Sat Jul 22, 2023 3:40 pm

i don't really have a lot to say rn im mostly just trying not to spampost too much so that tris can eventually succeed in her catchup mission and maybe bulge can do the same if he ever retrieves his phone from the sea or whatever

fireisredsir · Sat Jul 22, 2023 3:50 pm

HURT: all
HEAL: tris, sheep, thestatusquo, skitter, fireisredsir

i don't really want this hammered rn but it is my current favorite coalition

im wavering on ari and isis which makes me hesitant bc it's probably not just bulge/hellbooks (that is, it could be, but i don't want to assume it is bc easy answer usually wrong etc) and so im not really convinced that im not misreading someone in tris/sheep/skitter

fireisredsir · Sat Jul 22, 2023 4:38 pm

i do think that shea obstinantly not townreading tris here is a fairly towny shea thing to do

reminds me of house of the dragon king shea

fireisredsir · Sat Jul 22, 2023 4:39 pm

i guess he probably would do it as scum too so maybe it's nai

fireisredsir · Sat Jul 22, 2023 5:39 pm

i agree with the first bit but i don't think we need to start blasting

fireisredsir · Sat Jul 22, 2023 5:46 pm

i think the goal here is to not ever have to get to the blasting phase of things

fireisredsir · Sat Jul 22, 2023 7:02 pm

baltar always says that it makes him more limmable but i don't believe he's ever done a controlled study

fireisredsir · Sun Jul 23, 2023 8:09 pm

In post 1735, Isis wrote:
In post 1683, fireisredsir wrote: HURT: all
HEAL: tris, sheep, thestatusquo, skitter, fireisredsir

i don't really want this hammered rn but it is my current favorite coalition

im wavering on ari and isis which makes me hesitant bc it's probably not just bulge/hellbooks (that is, it could be, but i don't want to assume it is bc easy answer usually wrong etc) and so im not really convinced that im not misreading someone in tris/sheep/skitter
It could just be isis/hellbooks. This is a perspective slip or something. Like the way you're trying to build your readstate and logically proceed to an optimal coalition is messed up

what

fireisredsir · Sun Jul 23, 2023 8:11 pm

im assuming you aren't saying im scum bc i didn't list every possible combination of scum teams outside the coalition but i don't understand what else you mean

fireisredsir · Sun Jul 23, 2023 8:23 pm

i wasn't really thinking about specific teams when i made that post

my thought process was:

1. im not actually sure if isis and ari are scum. like individually my read on both is wavering

2. what if they're both town

3. well obviously not all 4 people outside the coalition are scum, silly. there's only 2

4. ok so it could be hellbooks/bulge and then this coalition still wins?

5. that seems too easy. what if it isn't

6. then one of skitter/tris/sheep is scum

7. am i confident that they aren't?

8. no

fireisredsir · Sun Jul 23, 2023 8:23 pm

i don't really understand your issue with the post but maybe it did not properly convey my thought process

fireisredsir · Sun Jul 23, 2023 8:25 pm

maybe it helps to know that the paragraph was not at all in support of the coalition if anything it was an opposing arguments

i was just rambling about my doubts i guess

fireisredsir · Sun Jul 23, 2023 8:26 pm

In post 1750, Isis wrote: Why would we be town together tho

We're not sisters

well if only one of you is town then im not very concerned about things bc its more believable that the coalition wins

you both being town (and the implications of that) is the world i was worried about

fireisredsir · Sun Jul 23, 2023 8:30 pm

In post 1753, Isis wrote: Also why is your Isis read wavering. Do you not understand how to strike when the fire is hot? Do I need to post all of Hephaestus's boons from Hades

the bit about you realizing you didn't post as much about your reads as you thought felt towny and also some of the emotion

fireisredsir · Sun Jul 23, 2023 8:35 pm

In post 1755, Isis wrote: I think since Ari and I are townreading eachother you'd more naturally think we are snowing eachother if we are both independently suspicious

maybe im sleepy (i am) but im confused again im not sure what your issue is here

it sounds like you're saying "no you shouldn't be thinking about Possible World A you should be thinking about Possible World B" when like. i am thinking about all of them. i just happened to talk about one of them bc it was on my mind at the time

fireisredsir · Sun Jul 23, 2023 8:41 pm

these issues just feel really manufactured/forced to me but maybe i am being unreasonable/unclear idk i will revisit after sleeping

fireisredsir · Sun Jul 23, 2023 8:53 pm

In post 1765, Isis wrote: I think the town is adopting a throwalition and maybe I'm working backwards trying to find the person corrupting logic to create a throw and maybe you get "forcedness" when I'm like this post is a mess is fire is red sir the reason we can have nice things and do I think he's bad enough that this is his nat pov

i guess that's reasonable

fireisredsir · Sun Jul 23, 2023 8:54 pm

In post 1764, Isis wrote: seeing the good in everyone is not a good way to win as town

thats why im not very good at this game

fireisredsir · Sun Jul 23, 2023 9:11 pm

In post 1320, Aristeia wrote:
In post 1317, Thestatusquo wrote: Who is scum?
rn I kind of think it's bulge and someone else but I'm more interested in getting to 5 townreads

i was hoping that more would come of this

in her previous (town) coalition game i think ari was a lot more eager to push for and case townreads and shut down what she saw as bad scumreads on slots she saw as town. and just generally work towards pro-town goals of helping other people find town and find a winning coalition

fireisredsir · Sun Jul 23, 2023 9:13 pm

i have generally been townreading ari more lately than i used to and there have been some places that i think feel more like town!ari but that aspect still makes me unsure

fireisredsir · Sun Jul 23, 2023 9:19 pm

she has given townreads on you sheep shea

probably tris

skitter tr seems to be implied but is never really stated

scumread on me seems to be gone but unsure if it's really a townread, hasn't been explained much

fireisredsir · Sun Jul 23, 2023 9:20 pm

if she doesn't have a lot of townreads then im not sure why convincing people to put you in the coalition isn't a priority

fireisredsir · Sun Jul 23, 2023 9:26 pm

In post 1105, Aristeia wrote: im ngl i could provbly force a win on coalition phase but sheas stupid scumread has annoyed me so much thaf im gonn just meme lol

this doesn't really sound like a post made by someone who only has one good townread

and i don't think this emotional response has really stuck around as much so idk what happened to the confidence in finding town behind the first part of this sentence

fireisredsir · Sun Jul 23, 2023 10:10 pm

In post 1786, sheepsaysmeep wrote: Do u merit a townread here based on ur respective ranges

probably not lol idk

i think it's hard for me to know what my agenda would be without knowing who id be paired with but i guess you're probably right that id be playing more to one whatever it would be?

let me see what my iso looks like

fireisredsir · Sun Jul 23, 2023 10:13 pm

ok i kinda see ari's point

fireisredsir · Sun Jul 23, 2023 10:13 pm

i think i probably wouldn't bother townreading shea i don't think that really gets me anywhere

fireisredsir · Sun Jul 23, 2023 10:20 pm

yea i don't really have good reasons lol sorry gl

fireisredsir · Sun Jul 23, 2023 11:22 pm

my bad

fireisredsir · Mon Jul 24, 2023 5:29 am

In post 1807, hellbooks wrote: god these are utter disaster posts

i like them actually

fireisredsir · Mon Jul 24, 2023 5:46 am

coalition i think has its fun chart inherently amplified a bit bc at the start it's really extra fun since all you have to do is find town and in rvs that's easy bc the people vibing and having fun are obviously also town. surely

but then the closer you get to forming a coalition the harder it is to actually commit to one bc if you just get it right then the game can be over! you can win!! it's so close! but you probably can't actually because this game is hard and also there's not even really any wagons or votes to read people off of. so everyone just kinda sits around in the muck of it and hoping they can viberead people confidently enough and it's painful

it's like extra-mega-fun towncore-ing rvs phase immediately followed by an endgame elo phase where if you mess up and get it wrong the punishment is not shame and failure it's that you have to play a normal game of mafia, which is worse

fireisredsir · Mon Jul 24, 2023 6:07 am

what brings skitter to the bottom section of your reads

fireisredsir · Mon Jul 24, 2023 6:15 am

i was confused by coal at first and thought it was some joke about the rock that i didn't understand

on reflection i think the confusion had to do with you using the word stoke in the post which originated the usage of the word coal. and i think when you stoke a fire, coal can be involved. maybe that was actually intentional im not sure. my brain just internalized it as a joke that i didn't quite grasp and only late realized it was an abbreviation

fireisredsir · Mon Jul 24, 2023 6:29 am

i think the thing that i generally find to townread about skitter is when it feels like she cares more about solving the game than she does about being reasonable and getting people to see her as on their side

like going against the flow of the game a bit and there's an edge of stubbornness sometimes that i think is more present when she's town

here i think there hasn't been enough of that for me to call her strongly town but there's places where it edges slightly in that direction

i guess i probably townread her least out of my current coalition vote but it also doesn't feel like she's fighting to get into it in a way that i think she could as scum

like recently after her return vla she didn't spend a lot of time in the thread but the time she did spend was to basically say 1) 1712, which gives reasons for isis scummy, and 2) 1713 1723, which pushes back on a coalition that includes her and says "nah fire and sheep aren't towny enough for me to support this"

which is something that i find hard to see as pushing scum agenda. again unless she's paired with like tris in which case we've already lost this phase. because the longer tha she isn't in thread due to vla/being busy etc the more likely it is that town will find each other and decide skitter no longer meets the bar of towniness required and push her out. so just showing up and being like "no" to a coalition with her in it as her main point of conversation feels really not scummy at all to me

fireisredsir · Mon Jul 24, 2023 6:31 am

i think my list is like upside down to yours tbh but i also don't follow them at all

fireisredsir · Mon Jul 24, 2023 6:40 am

TIER LIST OF BTS MEMBERStris - she's just town, right?? i don't really think we're at the point of doubting this any time soon. she feels like the main character of this game in that whenever she shows up in the thread she's just solving from the town perspective and her thoughts make sense and it feels right. S+

Thestatusquo - i think he's probably town. his approach just feels like his towngame and i don't think the things he does make a lot of sense as scum. he also gets bonus points for being both a T or an S depending on what you call him. S

skitter30 - i just talked about her a lot. im not that confident bc she could be slowplaying it but it doesn't really feel like she is pushing scum agenda. A+

sheepsaysmeep - ughhhh idk. i went into talking about skitter thinking she was my least confident in the coalition but then as i looked at her further and read things i felt a little better so now that's sheep. he could be scum, i guess. A

The Bulge - also could be either a T or a B, however there aren't any other Bs so he has to be a B. unlucky. he's probably just scum i guess. do something. B

fireisredsir · Mon Jul 24, 2023 7:45 am

In post 1832, Thestatusquo wrote: If you could explain the tris town read to me I would very much appreciate it. The only reasoning I personally have for it is that I feel like the threadspew thing is kinda true and so I want to town bin it to just not think about it anymore but I think the closest thing I got to a coherent explanation was that tris has more trouble being present and "vibing" as scum and I would really like if someone could give me a citation for that claim since I've never experienced scumtris. But secondly I kind of at the time felt like the vibing was kind of tentative and muted compared to a previous tris town experience and more to the point she's basically been not present at all for the second half of this game and I don't think I could tell you off hand a single thing she thinks without looking at her iso so I worry that if she's not thread spewed I don't really have a lot of reason for why she's town at all.

If you want to like break that down for me so I can feel better about the read I would appreciate it.

i can try but i think if you don't see it then it may be hard to convey

my point of reference for tris scum is having read along to this game: viewtopic.php?t=90204&user_select%5B%5D=32319

where i think she just feels generally uncomfortable and not at all like she's genuinely solving things. i don't think that's my main reason tho bc i think its definitely possible she has a wider scumrange than that

my main reason is just that all of her thoughts feel like they come from a place of honesty and they just make sense to me? im aware this won't convince you at all. they're generally not complex or hard to fake thoughts but they just feel like the right ones for her to have. they feel pure. she's comfortable and just poking at things here and there and it feels like she's solving. it's true she hasn't always been around but the catchups are good. 1664 is a good post. i don't think this is even expressing properly the strength of my read. i don't see anything she's doing as scummy and i see pretty much all of it as towny

idk

i think this attempt at explaining it was a failure but i still feel reaffirmed in the read

fireisredsir · Mon Jul 24, 2023 8:11 am

what's your point of reference for scum sheep?

i think i have trouble being convinced by the vibe read bc even though i agree, i think he is good at having a good vibe as scum (probably the thing he is best at) and he doesn't really need to push a lot of agenda here especially early on

fireisredsir · Mon Jul 24, 2023 9:09 am

i don't know bulge but i don't see why not

fireisredsir · Mon Jul 24, 2023 9:16 am

i think bulge could also just not be able to/doesn't have the motivation to get engaged in the game. i don't think it has to be an active choice

fireisredsir · Mon Jul 24, 2023 9:16 am

and on sheep yea idk i think i generally agree with the trajectory of your thoughts there

fireisredsir · Mon Jul 24, 2023 9:17 am

i don't think i exactly know how to read him but i think it's definitely possible that he's scum here

fireisredsir · Mon Jul 24, 2023 9:58 am

In post 1873, Thestatusquo wrote: My niggling doubt about fire is just that he seems like he's being just a bit too conciliatory to me

on what points?

fireisredsir · Mon Jul 24, 2023 10:38 am

In post 1883, Thestatusquo wrote: You don't seem to be challenging me much idk.

i asked you about your sheep read which was a place i disagreed and then you changed your mind so shrug

i haven't really had a lot that im interested in challenging you on lately

fireisredsir · Mon Jul 24, 2023 10:38 am

also the coalitions that are the same are grouped together. the three at the top are the same

fireisredsir · Mon Jul 24, 2023 11:21 am

im interested in who skitter would put in if she were to take out one of me/sheep or both

fireisredsir · Mon Jul 24, 2023 11:39 am

im town!

fireisredsir · Mon Jul 24, 2023 11:43 am

if you're kicking me and sheep out for ari and brooks im probably not gonna be thaaat excited about that

i could maybe see ari > sheep but i amn't convinced on hellbooks

fireisredsir · Mon Jul 24, 2023 11:47 am

hey, i don't think it's weird! skitter pick me!

fireisredsir · Mon Jul 24, 2023 11:48 am

i mean basically she is taking the current leading coal and probably removing one of me/you for ari

so i think that's pretty similar to how i view things

fireisredsir · Mon Jul 24, 2023 11:50 am

i don't even CARE if im in your coalition

fireisredsir · Mon Jul 24, 2023 12:01 pm

its an easier fight if you just snow a few select people rather than everyone so you don't have to argue why you didn't get nk'd

fireisredsir · Mon Jul 24, 2023 12:02 pm

focusing on 1 is good too but its bad if other people notice so that's the danger

fireisredsir · Mon Jul 24, 2023 12:04 pm

i think 5 is the closest number to being a square

if you just flip the little bottom bit up to the right and close it off and then make the corner sharper

fireisredsir · Mon Jul 24, 2023 12:05 pm

In post 1930, Isis wrote: fire god bless your heart with his flames of smithing if you think I've ever played well enough for anyone to ever ask why I didn't get NKed wow

I just dont ever see it being a problem

as the player with the highest postcount in this game im really confused why you haven't been nightkilled. please explain yourself

fireisredsir · Mon Jul 24, 2023 12:11 pm

i don't think im capable of pocketing you, unlucky

fireisredsir · Mon Jul 24, 2023 12:20 pm

In post 1943, Isis wrote:
In post 1940, fireisredsir wrote: i don't think im capable of pocketing you, unlucky
You are but I view your choice not to do so as a recognition I don't matter which makes me sus of you

Ari doesn't care that I don't matter she pockets me with a pure heart

i might be more likely to try if i thought you were town!

fireisredsir · Tue Jul 25, 2023 4:18 am

i think im ok to start blasting on either this one or maybe swapping out sheep for ari if thats what skitter wants

fireisredsir · Tue Jul 25, 2023 4:19 am

In post 1987, tris wrote:
In post 1840, fireisredsir wrote: what's your point of reference for scum sheep?

i think i have trouble being convinced by the vibe read bc even though i agree, i think he is good at having a good vibe as scum (probably the thing he is best at) and he doesn't really need to push a lot of agenda here especially early on
what do you think of the aristea interactions from early on specifically

do you mean the bit around 640? i thought it was at least a little towny from sheep at the time. looking back idk. maybe im being ungenerous this time or maybe i was too generous the first time but it kinda feels like he can't decide if he wants to commit to attacking back or if he wants to defend himself. he definitely does feel a little thrown off guard and some of it does feel honest but im not sure how towny that really is

fireisredsir · Tue Jul 25, 2023 4:19 am

i wrote that last night and then fell asleep before hitting submit lol oops

fireisredsir · Tue Jul 25, 2023 4:20 am

idk if i still agree with sheep downward trajectory his posting this morning swayed me a little bit

fireisredsir · Tue Jul 25, 2023 6:06 am

i kinda believe 1997 and 1999

fireisredsir · Tue Jul 25, 2023 6:06 am

im posting on this page bc i don't know anything

fireisredsir · Tue Jul 25, 2023 7:24 am

we are only eating into our lim discussion time i think 80 pages is way more than enough even tho they aren't very dense

fireisredsir · Tue Jul 25, 2023 7:25 am

i am not really sure about hellbooks being in i think if it fails we just always lim her lol which is kinda eh

she deserves the fun car imo

fireisredsir · Tue Jul 25, 2023 7:33 am

major fire/sheep scumteam theory equity here

fireisredsir · Tue Jul 25, 2023 7:35 am

skitter's always right

fireisredsir · Tue Jul 25, 2023 7:36 am

In post 2046, sheepsaysmeep wrote:
In post 2044, fireisredsir wrote: major fire/sheep scumteam theory equity here
pls dont be scum bro

dw scum aren't allowed to post on this page bc they know too much

fireisredsir · Tue Jul 25, 2023 7:36 am

it's confirmed in hellbooks/bulge/skitter

fireisredsir · Tue Jul 25, 2023 7:41 am

oddly i am but i think that's because i hold my hands in front of my eyes and squint whenever i read her posts to shield myself from the natural effect of them

fireisredsir · Tue Jul 25, 2023 12:22 pm

im not sure if this is necessarily a hard game in the sense of "the scum are hidden really well and everyone feels too towny" at least from my pov

i guess it could be

but it feels more like a hard game in the sense of none of us want to commit to anything

fireisredsir · Tue Jul 25, 2023 12:29 pm

when i reread hellbook's iso in the datisi micro there was a lot more solving and like, "hey this is what i think about alignment" than i remembered (and a lot more than here)

it's possible that some of that here is due to lack of blasting but still, it did somewhat erase my temptations to put her in the coal

fireisredsir · Tue Jul 25, 2023 1:11 pm

In post 2117, hellbooks wrote:
In post 2113, Aristeia wrote: so do you want to be in the coal bag or the cool car?
I typed and deleted paragraphs chock full of so called "fluff and philosophical musings" that detailed all of the thoughts i had about this but i'll just summarize it as "if it were somehow up to me then yes id prefer to be in the coal"

their loss will be mourned

fireisredsir · Tue Jul 25, 2023 1:17 pm

maybe we should try to put 2 scum in the coalition bc then it's easier to find the first one

and then nobody will have to feel pressure to get this phase right

(and then, obviously, our attempts will result in us somehow getting a winning coal anyway)

fireisredsir · Tue Jul 25, 2023 1:18 pm

honestly i can see the appeal of aiming for the fun car to be 1 consensus scumread and 3 people who could be fooling everyone

fireisredsir · Tue Jul 25, 2023 1:22 pm

i think that approach might actually win more games in the long run than the standard one

fireisredsir · Tue Jul 25, 2023 1:23 pm

bulge or brooks i guess? the people where everyone is like "no way i don't want them in my coal"

fireisredsir · Tue Jul 25, 2023 1:24 pm

i thought about this idea for like 30 seconds for the record

fireisredsir · Tue Jul 25, 2023 1:36 pm

do you scumread anyone

fireisredsir · Tue Jul 25, 2023 1:46 pm

In post 103, fireisredsir wrote: i also think everyone is town. i think datisi ginally got sick and tired of mafiascum.net and decided to go out with a bang and get banned by making this a bastard game where it's actually impossible for us to lose because any coalition will be a success

fireisredsir · Tue Jul 25, 2023 1:48 pm

In post 2130, tris wrote:
In post 2081, tris wrote:
In post 2075, fireisredsir wrote: im not sure if this is necessarily a hard game in the sense of "the scum are hidden really well and everyone feels too towny" at least from my pov

i guess it could be

but it feels more like a hard game in the sense of none of us want to commit to anything
its not that everyone is overflowing in townyness, but ive had no scumreads the whole game.

i read your iso and wow you really weren't exaggerating

i don't know if there's any posts where you even call something out as scummy

somehow i find that towny although i really don't think i should

fireisredsir · Tue Jul 25, 2023 1:52 pm

awoooo

fireisredsir · Tue Jul 25, 2023 1:54 pm

In post 2141, Aristeia wrote: my all girl team would win and fire is worried

i hope it wins bc im worried about the funness of the fun car

fireisredsir · Tue Jul 25, 2023 2:04 pm

i would like to coalesce tonight bc things need to move forward but i am not really in much pain this game. ive been having a good time

maybe im the weird one tho idk

fireisredsir · Tue Jul 25, 2023 2:04 pm

sorry if things are boring/painful for others

fireisredsir · Tue Jul 25, 2023 2:48 pm

In post 2150, tris wrote:
In post 2141, Aristeia wrote: my all girl team would win and fire is worried
this is my secret scumread that i was thinkig

0/1 on scumreads for the game. unlucky

fireisredsir · Tue Jul 25, 2023 3:04 pm

i was gonna do an exercise of listing coals i would vote for in order of preference but as i was going i realized i would vote for almost anything if my townreads consensused on it

so instead i will just say i prefer these two

me/tris/shea/skitter/sheep
me/tris/shea/skitter/ari

and then other combinations that are agreed on especially by tris/shea/skitter are also probably fine i guess

fireisredsir · Tue Jul 25, 2023 3:09 pm

i would never

fireisredsir · Tue Jul 25, 2023 3:16 pm

who do you want instead

fireisredsir · Tue Jul 25, 2023 3:19 pm

i am not sure you'll get 3 other people to vote for that but if you do i don't really mind it

fireisredsir · Tue Jul 25, 2023 3:24 pm

i think we really need to start actually putting coalitions close to being in contention bc otherwise there is zero pressure

do we need to like decide on 3 or so that everyone is okay with at least one of them and then vote from there?

fireisredsir · Tue Jul 25, 2023 4:02 pm

if the game ends we can play dethy (?) (whatever that is) in the thread after the game

fireisredsir · Tue Jul 25, 2023 4:53 pm

i think if that coal wins its due to bulge/sheep which is like a believable team to me so i guess

it isn't my preferred tho

fireisredsir · Tue Jul 25, 2023 6:06 pm

In post 2052, Thestatusquo wrote: Anyone putting hellbooks in is throwing

fireisredsir · Wed Jul 26, 2023 6:47 am

ok so

tris skitter and shea mutually all want each other in the coal

me and sheep agree w that

others idk, but there hasn't really been that much protest on those names

can those 3 like come together and just vote on 2 other names to put in

fireisredsir · Wed Jul 26, 2023 6:48 am

tris doesn't want me or isis i think

skitter doesn't want isis or bulge or hellbooks, and does want ari

shea doesn't want hellbooks or sheep, and does want me

fireisredsir · Wed Jul 26, 2023 6:48 am

does anyone not want ari? shea?

fireisredsir · Wed Jul 26, 2023 6:48 am

oh wait skitter might be ok with bulge

fireisredsir · Wed Jul 26, 2023 6:50 am

do we just do tris/skitter/shea/ari/bulge? i think we always insta yeet bulge here but maybe that at least resolves whether we are in the outed scum bulge world or a different world

or hey maybe we win idk

fireisredsir · Wed Jul 26, 2023 6:53 am

i would obviously rather have myself in than bulge but if tris and/or skitter are opposed then it probably isn't happening

fireisredsir · Wed Jul 26, 2023 6:58 am

i swear to god this¹ is right, do this shit or ur throwing

¹ "this" is referring to deciding on a coalition

fireisredsir · Wed Jul 26, 2023 7:04 am

In post 2, Datisi wrote: ~ normal votes will be tracked during the coalition phase, despite it being impossible to achieve a yeet.
~ however, if a failed coalition is locked in, and there is currently a majority vote on someone, that player will be yeeted immediately.

it would be really funny if we did this

blasting as soon as legally possible

fireisredsir · Wed Jul 26, 2023 7:25 am

fun fact, unless there's more missing from the wiki there's been 14 runs of this setup

7 of them have formed a winning coalition

of the other 7, town has won 2, maf have won 5

one of the town wins was 16 pages long

fireisredsir · Wed Jul 26, 2023 7:34 am

if the consensus townreads are unwilling to compromise/coordinate/solve with each other then the scum will compromise their way into removing the consensus townreads from the coalition in favor of scummier coalitions

fireisredsir · Wed Jul 26, 2023 7:45 am

i think its hard to make gamestate reads like that when it's very possible that one of the scum is bulge who just isn't here

but maybe idk

fireisredsir · Wed Jul 26, 2023 7:47 am

we might actually make it to the point of activating his role

fireisredsir · Wed Jul 26, 2023 7:50 am

im saying that i don't think you can make that assumption scum are just afk sometimes for no good reason

fireisredsir · Wed Jul 26, 2023 7:56 am

In post 2241, Aristeia wrote: if hes scum and he doesnt care that means his team is in a good spot

my issue is with this line of logic

i just don't really think that implication is necessarily true

fireisredsir · Wed Jul 26, 2023 7:58 am

In post 1973, Aristeia wrote: so like i was thinking about how to deal with lurkers who dont really play the game like we had nk15 last time and like

what if we just throw him in the coalition?

if hes lhf town and we bounce out a scum thats like picking up a win and dealing with the issue

and if hes like scum - it only really matters if we had a winning coalition before putting him in and i dont know how likely that is?

hed have to be scum with someone really well entrenched if he decided to tactically lurk to avoid disturbing the game state because he didnt want to give his partner away.

the real downside is if hes scum who gave up and his partner is like not really in the coalition at all and we're in an easy game and im feeling pangs of doubt we're in that game state.

given this mindset and what you're saying now i don't really get why you said you didn't like the coalition with tris/skitter/shea/ari/bulge

fireisredsir · Wed Jul 26, 2023 8:02 am

isn't it better to put him in and then blast him and find out if he's scum and then you can find his partner rather than just have it be tris/skitter/shea+whoever gets decided on between me/sheep/you/brooks? if you think already that there's going to be scum in that coalition?

i don't really see a coalition without any of tris/skitter/shea passing unless you have a specific person you think should be removed from that group

fireisredsir · Wed Jul 26, 2023 8:03 am

i do think that tris/skitter/shea are town so this isn't really my mindset that we need to have bulge in, im just trying to understand yours

fireisredsir · Wed Jul 26, 2023 8:04 am

HURT: all
HEAL: tris, shea, skitter, ari, bulge

fireisredsir · Wed Jul 26, 2023 8:07 am

In post 2257, Aristeia wrote:
In post 2254, fireisredsir wrote: i do think that tris/skitter/shea are town so this isn't really my mindset that we need to have bulge in, im just trying to understand yours
can you make your question about my mindset simpler?

if you think bulge is scum with one of skitter/tris/shea

then why did you say no to the coalition i proposed earlier (and also the one skitter just signed off on)

it seems like all other viable alternatives are worse in the world of bulge+tris/shea/skitter scumteam bc you'd have to like exclude all of those 4 which i don't think gets voted for ever

fireisredsir · Wed Jul 26, 2023 8:07 am

i don't think i made it any simpler lmao sorry

fireisredsir · Wed Jul 26, 2023 8:08 am

if skitter prefers sheep over bulge id vote for that too

fireisredsir · Wed Jul 26, 2023 8:13 am

In post 2236, Aristeia wrote: i think theres already a scum in the consensus townreads which explains why nobody cares but im down for running it down the middle because I don't care

this was what i was talking about bc i don't think me/sheep are consensus townreads

unless you think it is exactly bulge/shea which maybe you do but in that case i think there's a coal you could push that doesn't have those two that would prob get votes

fireisredsir · Wed Jul 26, 2023 8:24 am

me and isis agreed in the scum pt to vote for it as a bluff to make everyone dislike it and hopefully pivot to one that has one of us in it

fireisredsir · Wed Jul 26, 2023 8:24 am

In post 2274, Aristeia wrote: well assuming fire/isis are not scumthrowing or scumplayingchicken the only way this coalition will be townwin is if the scum team is exactly sheep+hellbooks?

oh no she's onto us

fireisredsir · Wed Jul 26, 2023 8:25 am

i am ok with bulge bc i will insta yeet him and then we get to know if he's scum or not and bc i would rather have a coal than not have one atp

fireisredsir · Wed Jul 26, 2023 8:33 am

In post 2284, sheepsaysmeep wrote:
In post 2275, fireisredsir wrote: me and isis agreed in the scum pt to vote for it as a bluff to make everyone dislike it and hopefully pivot to one that has one of us in it
This reminds me of a game I played recently where we decided to try to lim our wolf partner d1, and everyone hated the wagon composition so they voted the other wagon who was a villager and died. wagon composition 22 villagers 1 wolf
counterwagon on a wolf, voted by 10 wolves

i hope there aren't that many wolves in this game we'd be in trouble

fireisredsir · Wed Jul 26, 2023 8:44 am

reading an isis iso is so enjoyable that one must take their time

fireisredsir · Wed Jul 26, 2023 9:10 am

HURT: all

fireisredsir · Wed Jul 26, 2023 9:16 am

shea i have also been pushing that we should coalition sooner

fireisredsir · Wed Jul 26, 2023 9:32 am

there aren't really any consensus coalitions we've just been flopping around a lot

but it is true that shea/tris/skitter are in most coalitions that people propose

fireisredsir · Wed Jul 26, 2023 9:32 am

In post 2359, brassherald wrote: Holy shit, you two combine for over 900 posts.

This is a micro!

we have been extremely chatty which probably makes this game a major pain to backread, i apologize

fireisredsir · Wed Jul 26, 2023 9:46 am

In post 2372, brassherald wrote: It's 95 pages and you've made zero progress

it hurts but it's true

fireisredsir · Wed Jul 26, 2023 9:54 am

In post 2378, sheepsaysmeep wrote: brass feels town I guess

what about him

fireisredsir · Wed Jul 26, 2023 9:55 am

In post 2376, Isis wrote: I solved the game it's a flaming sheep I'm bored now

usually finding a solve is exciting not boring

fireisredsir · Wed Jul 26, 2023 9:59 am

In post 2387, Isis wrote: Fire after u snow this
w
will you play jungle nunu and gank for us

The coal should have at least one of me/ari

i wanna be amumu

fireisredsir · Wed Jul 26, 2023 10:00 am

In post 2391, Isis wrote: No sheep, having 0 other people interested in voting your top scumread is not exciting and having a conjecture about the partner that is probably wrong because 8*7 is 56 is not like the most thrilling of things

But also yes I'm posting from an informed perspective because Datisi wrote the other scum on my role pm etc and that's boring

nobody is voting anyone and several people are interested in excluding me (assuming you are talking about me since you addressed this to sheep even tho is was my comment) so i don't get it

fireisredsir · Wed Jul 26, 2023 10:01 am

yuumi is probably safest ive played like 10 games ever

fireisredsir · Wed Jul 26, 2023 10:01 am

yuumi is the worst tho i refuse

fireisredsir · Wed Jul 26, 2023 10:05 am

im not hammering this therefore im cleared as not scum right

fireisredsir · Wed Jul 26, 2023 10:09 am

tempted to call skitter scummy for not understanding why i didn't like ari's suggestion but also remembering that last game she as town thought i was scum for lacking conviction so maybe she just has a misunderstanding idk

fireisredsir · Wed Jul 26, 2023 10:11 am

we have to get to page 100 to unlock the secret win condition

fireisredsir · Wed Jul 26, 2023 10:17 am

who would you say IS trying to get into the coalition

fireisredsir · Wed Jul 26, 2023 10:21 am

what if we sorted the plist by number of pocket attempts and took the lowest 5 as a the coal

fireisredsir · Wed Jul 26, 2023 10:23 am

me and sheep are a fan favorite scum team

im cheering for that team too i hope we win

fireisredsir · Wed Jul 26, 2023 10:23 am

In post 2445, Thestatusquo wrote: I will agree to the following coalition:

Me Tris Skitter Ari and Fire.

And then we can argue about which of ari or fire is scum later.

I think there is certainly scum in {hellbooks isis sheep}

hey look its the one i want wow

fireisredsir · Wed Jul 26, 2023 10:24 am

i never forget hellbooks

fireisredsir · Wed Jul 26, 2023 10:26 am

at least 5% of the posts i make i am thinking to myself "wow i hope hellbooks reads this when she catches up and appreciates it"

fireisredsir · Wed Jul 26, 2023 10:29 am

well it's not me so let's do it

HEAL: tris, shea, ari, skitter, fire

fireisredsir · Wed Jul 26, 2023 10:29 am

i wish i was good enough in the karmic sense for datisi to reward me with a role pm that told me i was partners with ari this game

fireisredsir · Wed Jul 26, 2023 10:33 am

In post 2479, sheepsaysmeep wrote: when do I receive my townreads for not trying to seem towny. I am getting impatient

ill give you one for being funny

fireisredsir · Wed Jul 26, 2023 10:38 am

i am not sure that there exists a coal endorsed by both skitter and shea which is why we are on page 100

fireisredsir · Wed Jul 26, 2023 10:39 am

In post 2494, Aristeia wrote:
In post 2491, Isis wrote:
In post 2470, Thestatusquo wrote:
In post 2465, skitter30 wrote:
In post 2439, Thestatusquo wrote: I mean the normal way, which is by attempting to pocket people.
Who tho
I thought aris energy after she realized she couldn't omgus me off the scum read was extremely pockety.
I felt the measured intensity and wavering confidence was either authentic or Oscarworthy and I don't play paranoid so
Prism made me learn how to do the "reflective stepback" because she was tired of watching me be a one trick pony when I roll scum.

you did it so well!!

fireisredsir · Wed Jul 26, 2023 10:40 am

In post 2498, Thestatusquo wrote: I still want fire. But the way he's approaching the coalitions here is giving me the hibbity jibbities.

i mean the coalition im voting for is the one that i said was one of my two favorite options like 30 pages ago and it has been that way this whole time

fireisredsir · Wed Jul 26, 2023 10:46 am

i can't wait until we find out that the reason everyone is okay with all of these options is bc tris is in all of them

fireisredsir · Wed Jul 26, 2023 10:47 am

i think she is! but im wrong a lot

fireisredsir · Wed Jul 26, 2023 10:48 am

i don't have super high hopes but it's possible this works!

fireisredsir · Wed Jul 26, 2023 10:51 am

im glad you're having fun

fireisredsir · Wed Jul 26, 2023 10:54 am

if we played 102 pages just to find out it's hellbooks/bulge that would be kind of funny but an acceptable outcome ig

fireisredsir · Wed Jul 26, 2023 10:55 am

In post 2540, Thestatusquo wrote: I want to wait until friday fwiw.

I feel like we got more accomplished in the last hour than we have in the week prior and I still see no need to rush this

us rushing it is the only reason there was pressure and that things got accomplished

not that it matters bc tris is snowing us all while not even being here so nobody actually was under any pressure

fireisredsir · Wed Jul 26, 2023 10:56 am

In post 2542, sheepsaysmeep wrote: it's midnight in Croatia

he's awake dw

fireisredsir · Wed Jul 26, 2023 10:56 am

In post 2544, skitter30 wrote: Do u want me to unvote
I will be honest i don't know if it's hammered or not

im fairly sure it was hammered

fireisredsir · Wed Jul 26, 2023 10:56 am

i am like 90% it doesn't tbh

fireisredsir · Wed Jul 26, 2023 10:58 am

VOTE: sheep

fireisredsir · Wed Jul 26, 2023 10:59 am

damn ok

VOTE: tris

fireisredsir · Wed Jul 26, 2023 10:59 am

seeing the white of the vote tag is so cathartic after all this yellow

fireisredsir · Wed Jul 26, 2023 11:00 am

In post 1695, hellbooks wrote:

hi there : ) ready to start blastin?

yes
| no

fireisredsir · Wed Jul 26, 2023 11:01 am

that was instant damn

the summoning worked

fireisredsir · Wed Jul 26, 2023 11:03 am

no it was excellent timing