Newbie 2128 - Manila Noir - Postgame

[DkKoba]

by the way, ender, don't feel bad if you do end up being miseliminated, you did your best and in a more careful/less tunneley table you'd be basically clear. I'm pretty sure 2 mafia are on your wagon anyways personally so you're actually just a threat!
If anything I would suggest focusing on a good legacy of your POV, focusing on finding mafia mainly. I think you have a lot of potential if you aren't already an established player elsewhere and I can see how much heart you put into this game, even if others put blinders to it.

[SmileyDude1]

VOTE COUNT 1.7

TO BE CONTINUED.

---

ender (4):

JasonWazza, Political Clout, Alianna, Maduisha

[E-1]

Starfire (1):

SmileyDude1

DKKoba (1):

Starfire

Maduisha (1):

DKKoba

Not Voting (2):

ender, iamveryhappy

With 9 players alive, it takes 5 to eliminate someone.

Deadline:

(expired on 2023-07-31 15:00:00)

On break right now at work so I have some time here, I'm mobile posting so bear with me.

First, UNVOTE: Starfire

Id still like an answer for the questions in my 482, but I no longer feel that my vote is useful there

[SmileyDude1]

there is a feedback loop of "ender is scummy because I thought ender is scummy" and people should really consider like "oh do my arguments from earlier still hold up?

Second, I agree with this. I've been coming around on the slot lately and as I mentioned earlier I feel like their reasoning for being on the Happy and Mikhail wagons feels like it's a natural progression to me

[DkKoba]

I have a few miniguides to keep players accountable to type up just in case we kill ender- so pls do not hammer if you are resigned to

[SmileyDude1]

Looking at the DK/Jason/PC combination I feel like PC is the most likely scum here. The back and forth between DK and Jason feels like Town tunneling each other based on a playstyle clash and I feel like PC kind of faded out of it.

If there's scum in Koba/Jason I lean towards the latter as I disagree with the origin of the back and forth (IMO, it's fine to provide reads without having read the full game as long as you're willing to change them as you go along like DK has) and I liked both DK and their predecessor

I would prefer pressure on PC, but if we're solving it with Cop check then I'm fine leaving it for today. Let's try an alternative VOTE: Maduisha

[SmileyDude1]

I got to go, but I'll be back later

[Maduisha]

Maduisha can u post some original reasoning for your scumreads? Seems like you are piggybacking when it comes to scumreads *a lot* rather than having original conclusions whereas townreads do have reasons, a contrast I am curious about. Please detail how you view PC slot

PoE + gutfeel. I didn't like Ender discussing the possible night actions of the mafia in the open and using that logic to build arguments from.

I also thought of Ender because Mikhail were focusing on Ender and the Keria slot too much when they thought they were going to get hammered, and I thought it was a move to make the partner feel less likely. Out of Keria and Ender, I thought Ender was more scummy and that's about it.

If it ain't enough for you then *shrug*

[DkKoba]

Looking at the DK/Jason/PC combination I feel like PC is the most likely scum here. The back and forth between DK and Jason feels like Town tunneling each other based on a playstyle clash and I feel like PC kind of faded out of it.

If there's scum in Koba/Jason I lean towards the latter as I disagree with the origin of the back and forth (IMO, it's fine to provide reads without having read the full game as long as you're willing to change them as you go along like DK has) and I liked both DK and their predecessor

I would prefer pressure on PC, but if we're solving it with Cop check then I'm fine leaving it for today. Let's try an alternative VOTE: Maduisha

this feels like you passed a speech 100 check and just said the exact thing that fully appeals to me LMAO glad to see my perspective isn't crazy

[DkKoba]

Maduisha can u post some original reasoning for your scumreads? Seems like you are piggybacking when it comes to scumreads *a lot* rather than having original conclusions whereas townreads do have reasons, a contrast I am curious about. Please detail how you view PC slot

PoE + gutfeel. I didn't like Ender discussing the possible night actions of the mafia in the open and using that logic to build arguments from.

I also thought of Ender because Mikhail were focusing on Ender and the Keria slot too much when they thought they were going to get hammered, and I thought it was a move to make the partner feel less likely. Out of Keria and Ender, I thought Ender was more scummy and that's about it.

If it ain't enough for you then *shrug*

Linking "doing thing" to scumminess without considering the motive or process is pro scum so yes it isn't enough by a long shot.

[Maduisha]

Looking at the DK/Jason/PC combination I feel like PC is the most likely scum here. The back and forth between DK and Jason feels like Town tunneling each other based on a playstyle clash and I feel like PC kind of faded out of it.

If there's scum in Koba/Jason I lean towards the latter as I disagree with the origin of the back and forth (IMO, it's fine to provide reads without having read the full game as long as you're willing to change them as you go along like DK has) and I liked both DK and their predecessor

I would prefer pressure on PC, but if we're solving it with Cop check then I'm fine leaving it for today. Let's try an alternative VOTE: Maduisha

I agree Koba v Jason is TvT but why is PC scum here??? What do you mean by he faded

[SmileyDude1]

PC last interacted with DK with their 434, Jason and DK get into another spat afterwards with them on the sidelines, that doesn't feel right to me given their vote in 376.

Let me be clear i'm not necessarily scumreading PC here. I think given what occurred there's a decent chance that scum may have been involved in that argument, and if that's the case I feel that PC is the least solid of the three.

[DkKoba]

PC last interacted with DK with their 434, Jason and DK get into another spat afterwards with them on the sidelines, that doesn't feel right to me given their vote in 376.

Let me be clear i'm not necessarily scumreading PC here. I think given what occurred there's a decent chance that scum may have been involved in that argument, and if that's the case I feel that PC is the least solid of the three.

This sorta "2 people fighting and PC is on the sidelines" has happened 4+ times this game by this point actually. Iavh/starfire, starfire/mik, me/wazza and wazza/ender

[SmileyDude1]

Just puked after ingesting some medicine. I'm calling it for today

[ender]

since I'm at E-1 with a stated intent to hammer, here's my claim fwiw: Vanilla Townie.
do with that what you will.

[Political Clout]

UNVOTE: ender

[ender]

despite my town read on koba, it has crossed my mind that he could be scum intentionally buddying up to me now for town cred because he sees that the wagon is most likely going to succeed without him needing to vote me.

if that's not the case, then i do appreciate the kind words of encouragement koba lol

i'm not liking Maduisha's decision to vote me based primarily on gut/PoE. sure, gut and PoE are good tools to use but a vote should be based on something more concrete, like words or actions.

I didn't like Ender discussing the possible night actions of the mafia in the open and using that logic to build arguments from

discussing potential eventualities/night actions can be wifom, sure, but i feel like there is merit to it in some situations and i don't see it as scummy regardless. but i'm the one on the chopping block so i'm biased.

but answer me this... what motivation as scum would i have to publicly expose my thoughts on what night actions i would take in different scenarios?

VOTE: Maduisha (this is E-2)
as my strongest scum read for what i mentioned in my read list, and currently the only other possibility for a D1 elim than myself, this is where my vote will go

[Political Clout]

Looking at the DK/Jason/PC combination I feel like PC is the most likely scum here. The back and forth between DK and Jason feels like Town tunneling each other based on a playstyle clash and I feel like PC kind of faded out of it.

If there's scum in Koba/Jason I lean towards the latter as I disagree with the origin of the back and forth (IMO, it's fine to provide reads without having read the full game as long as you're willing to change them as you go along like DK has) and I liked both DK and their predecessor

I would prefer pressure on PC, but if we're solving it with Cop check then I'm fine leaving it for today. Let's try an alternative VOTE: Maduisha

If you are counting on a pr to play the game you are playing the game slightly incorrectly. you should consider it a mountainous game. because you don't know whether or not there is a doctor in the game. Happy might die tonight so you should try and sort me before then/ask questions etc. plus happy might change his mind about investigating me.

[DkKoba]

despite my town read on koba, it has crossed my mind that he could be scum intentionally buddying up to me now for town cred because he sees that the wagon is most likely going to succeed without him needing to vote me.

if that's not the case, then i do appreciate the kind words of encouragement koba lol

i'm not liking Maduisha's decision to vote me based primarily on gut/PoE. sure, gut and PoE are good tools to use but a vote should be based on something more concrete, like words or actions.

I didn't like Ender discussing the possible night actions of the mafia in the open and using that logic to build arguments from

discussing potential eventualities/night actions can be wifom, sure, but i feel like there is merit to it in some situations and i don't see it as scummy regardless. but i'm the one on the chopping block so i'm biased.

but answer me this... what motivation as scum would i have to publicly expose my thoughts on what night actions i would take in different scenarios?

VOTE: Maduisha (this is E-2)
as my strongest scum read for what i mentioned in my read list, and currently the only other possibility for a D1 elim than myself, this is where my vote will go

nah I just genuinely know the feeling of being miseliminated in a manner like this after trying, I would probably give like a super half baked defense as scum that doesnt try to genuinely dispell the stuff people are pushing u for - although like now thinking, my past scum MOs have been to hard defend a town wagon (but to be fair to the context- I was defending you while *I* was a wagon and didn't even flinch from that when it shifted to you and stayed consistent, whereas as scum I will only shift over once I see pressure building on someone to position myself for cred)

(Also why it's objectively ridiculous we are being paired at all because why is my positioning *like that* here if I am your scumbud lmao, being informed means being able to convert people's positions into positioning yourself knowing the right answers - something I feel PC did with maduisha back when they vanity voted the slot)

[DkKoba]

Just puked after ingesting some medicine. I'm calling it for today

Feel better!!!

[ender]

nah I just genuinely know the feeling of being miseliminated in a manner like this after trying, I would probably give like a super half baked defense as scum that doesnt try to genuinely dispell the stuff people are pushing u for - although like now thinking, my past scum MOs have been to hard defend a town wagon (but to be fair to the context- I was defending you while *I* was a wagon and didn't even flinch from that when it shifted to you and stayed consistent, whereas as scum I will only shift over once I see pressure building on someone to position myself for cred)

(Also why it's objectively ridiculous we are being paired at all because why is my positioning *like that* here if I am your scumbud lmao, being informed means being able to convert people's positions into positioning yourself knowing the right answers - something I feel PC did with maduisha back when they vanity voted the slot)

yeah that makes sense. i don't actually think you're likely scum at this point. so far your play has felt town motivated. but one can never be too sure so i figured i'd put that possibility out there.

[DkKoba]

Also one thing is that I myself was discussing night actions openly like recently before that post so I feel it was kinda a disgenuous point + aliana slot arguably did similar in a way by the claim, so it just feels like contrived reasoning that is intended to fake push a slot. Mind you - townies *can* be inconsistent, but it's like one of those things that piles up and in context feels like they aren't actually evaluating me here as well.

[Political Clout]

despite my town read on koba, it has crossed my mind that he could be scum intentionally buddying up to me now for town cred because he sees that the wagon is most likely going to succeed without him needing to vote me.

if that's not the case, then i do appreciate the kind words of encouragement koba lol

i'm not liking Maduisha's decision to vote me based primarily on gut/PoE. sure, gut and PoE are good tools to use but a vote should be based on something more concrete, like words or actions.

I didn't like Ender discussing the possible night actions of the mafia in the open and using that logic to build arguments from

discussing potential eventualities/night actions can be wifom, sure, but i feel like there is merit to it in some situations and i don't see it as scummy regardless. but i'm the one on the chopping block so i'm biased.

but answer me this... what motivation as scum would i have to publicly expose my thoughts on what night actions i would take in different scenarios?

VOTE: Maduisha (this is E-2)
as my strongest scum read for what i mentioned in my read list, and currently the only other possibility for a D1 elim than myself, this is where my vote will go

what merited discussing night actions in this situation? I feel like you were fairly active and as soon as people started looking at you, you quieted down a lot.

if a townie has a bad idea and several people tell them it's a bad idea but then the townie goes over the bad idea and says well I don't see how it's a bad idea should town keep that type of player around? if town 1 don't know the players alignment and 2 are seeing a refusal to change their mindset?

from my point of view you are going after the easiest possible lims here first after happy for going after mikhail tal and then after mikhail tal for being a pr who is cc'd. Alianna hasn't technically retracted the pr claim by neither confirming nor denying that it is real. do you think alianna is town? like if you are about to be limmed and are town you should be putting forward you absolute best town reads that are for sure town and your absolute best scum reads none of this null/lean stuff.

[Political Clout]

PC last interacted with DK with their 434, Jason and DK get into another spat afterwards with them on the sidelines, that doesn't feel right to me given their vote in 376.

Let me be clear i'm not necessarily scumreading PC here. I think given what occurred there's a decent chance that scum may have been involved in that argument, and if that's the case I feel that PC is the least solid of the three.

What do you want me to respond that I missed? because to me all you're saying is PC stopped posting.

[Political Clout]

Oddly enough, the lack of more aggresivity is the only thing making me stay a bit on the fence here...

Try voting them maybe, maybe it will show you more towards finding their alignment.

Yessss boss you got it! VOTE: DkKoba

Please, Koba, slam me against the wall. I want blood and feathers for sheeping a direct instruction from Jason. Please? It's the toxic gossip train and I'm hopping on it............

You can't squeeze more WIM out of me, what are you expecting with this vote?

I had to search the achronim to understand

I don't know, tbh

I guess I wanted more emotion, I'll blame the way I remember things

how could my plan fail?!?1?one

these two posts from mad feel extremely alignment indicative to me, but I'm honestly not sure which alignment. In essence it is a reaction test but later they call kkoba town. on balance should I give mad town points for the reaction test? mad goes from not knowing to trying to sort to seeing a post from kkoba to yes this is town kkoba. I guess overall the progression is okay my problem is that does it feel okay? is it genuine interaction? can mad the player sus out kkoba alignment from one post? idk.

[JasonWazza]

And wrt the "game losing" comment: ironic you mention it - bc I believe that ender kill starts a chain reaction where YOU are the next slot that gets pushed if they flip town, starfire.

The idea is that ender leads to a poe of me/aliana/you , and that loses us the game. I have a recent completed game i spectator where I said that a player named not_mafia being killed was instrumental to towns loss as i felt it set up mafia to bring the right people to final 5 , and gave no info.

If ender flips mafia I will be able to solve from that pov sure but I doubt that.

Just because I never updated my thoughts on Starfire publicly doesn't mean I think Starfire is scum still.

Like seriously, you are permanently making shit up about me, and it's clearly scummy.

But it's amazing how your entire reasoning to push the wagon you want, is literally just "Oh if you let him lim who he want's he is gonna win the game because reason's, and somehow nothing will be possible to change"