Mini Normal 2309 | Finished!

[Political Clout]

I have no idea whether to resurrect my conversation with hu tao or not difficult to say all things considered like I get he is getting ahem "VIBES" or whatever but you have to talk us through those vibes what about it where have you seen it before what about it being awkward is likely to come from scum I see no thought process or thought progression where I can say hmm this is clearly town posting and is hu tao town thinking townie thoughts Hu Tao admita later own they're not even paying attention to the game of who replaced whom very concerning, I am concern. I have some thoughts on bobby who is trying to crawl inside of hu tao which is super weird like the space y'know is their room for activities y'know? If anything it just makes me paranoid that Bobbo is trying to get me and hu tao to fight but nay I shan't hu taos avatar is too adorable. Also bobster said a lot of things I disagree with but I balance the weight of starting an irrelevant conversation and trying to talk to Bob who just sounds like they are talking at people. Bob might be deserving of a vote...

Civil ape is town. I think happy can be town too. I digress. My point is that Hu Tao is on balance null and boberino is a scum lean. I've completely forgotten to respond to Starfire lol.

[Civil Scum]

ehh that's fine
II'd probably.like you to answer my question for now

That the player either hasnt really started playing or isnt really posting there solving.

Always the wrong approach to take to assume a player isnt solving.

If you cant see their solving town players usualy do what you’re doing and ask questions.

Were as PC just cast Shade. Doesnt preclude them from being town but is on balance something scum are more likely to do as it shines a bad light while also not creating an opportunity to sort them.

The bolded sentence I flatly disagree with. You should assume people are scum and are not trying to solve imo.

As for the rest of this, I still can’t figure out why anybody thought PC was casting shade.

[Hu Tao]

I have no idea whether to resurrect my conversation with hu tao or not difficult to say all things considered like I get he is getting ahem "VIBES" or whatever but you have to talk us through those vibes what about it where have you seen it before what about it being awkward is likely to come from scum I see no thought process or thought progression where I can say hmm this is clearly town posting and is hu tao town thinking townie thoughts Hu Tao admita later own they're not even paying attention to the game of who replaced whom very concerning, I am concern. I have some thoughts on bobby who is trying to crawl inside of hu tao which is super weird like the space y'know is their room for activities y'know? If anything it just makes me paranoid that Bobbo is trying to get me and hu tao to fight but nay I shan't hu taos avatar is too adorable. Also bobster said a lot of things I disagree with but I balance the weight of starting an irrelevant conversation and trying to talk to Bob who just sounds like they are talking at people. Bob might be deserving of a vote...

Civil ape is town. I think happy can be town too. I digress. My point is that Hu Tao is on balance null and boberino is a scum lean. I've completely forgotten to respond to Starfire lol.

This is a lot. I agree with happy Town. But disagree with the Bob read. Don't think he was trying to get us to argue

[Civil Scum]

Yeah I just have to say that what Greeting said about me possibly acting confused newbie town really is bizarre to me. The things he pointed to that I said were not alignment indicative in the slightest, so why not just say I could be newbie scum, why apply this extra layer onto my behavior of ‘he could be a competent scum pretending to be newbie’.

Also I’m just going to post my read list and then take a break, I’m being a bit OCD I realize.

I’m order of increasing scumminess with an asterisk indicating a possible failed read on my part, or to say that I think the player seems town but might just be scum playing a very good game (lord knows I’ve been wrong before):

Civil Scum- of course

STD- on meta

Starfire*- just a read

Bellaphant- for reasons previously stated

Naerys- on meta

Random Nurse*- obviously hasn’t given much to work with but was the first person to come back and take me off E-2. Gets plenty of points from me for that.

Iamveryhappy- tough to read but I liked that he made note that my asking about the mafia scum tag under my name seemed a little paranoid. I would argue WIFOM since as scum I wouldn’t draw attention to myself in this way, but I’m glad he mentioned it cause it seemed like an obvious question to be asking.

Hu Tao- really unsure about them so far but haven’t done anything particularly scummy.

Political Clout- I initially thought that his banter with Starfire seemed like genuine scum hunting, but personally I am able to go after others pretty hard and pretty convincingly when I’m scum, and I’m sure many people here can so I’m taking those towny points away.

KKFC- He seems pro town at times but I’m struggling to put much faith in some of his arguments thus far.

Bob- for reasons stated (see my ISO)

Greetings- for reasons stated

Bazuf- Bazuf top scum and due for a prod shortly if I’m not mistaken.

[bob3141]

ehh that's fine
II'd probably.like you to answer my question for now

That the player either hasnt really started playing or isnt really posting there solving.

Always the wrong approach to take to assume a player isnt solving.

If you cant see their solving town players usualy do what you’re doing and ask questions.

Were as PC just cast Shade. Doesnt preclude them from being town but is on balance something scum are more likely to do as it shines a bad light while also not creating an opportunity to sort them.

The bolded sentence I flatly disagree with. You should assume people are scum and are not trying to solve imo.

As for the rest of this, I still can’t figure out why anybody thought PC was casting shade.

I strongly disagree with you as thats a way to make awful reads. If you go down rout of confirmation bias you simply end up death tunneling players even though your reads are flawed. To often ive seen players chasing other because of teh silly your not solving arguement and they have infact already solved the game. They get killed in elo and obvous scum win the game

[Civil Scum]

Hi Bob, stick around would ya.

rereading the thread some of Civil Scum's posts strike me as openwolfy - it's improved over the course of this game
keeping the attention on Civil Scum - I'd like to point out their wagon. Formed as fast as it collapsed, currently only one vote on them
I'm going to chuck Civil Scum in the town bin for a bit and probably for the entirety of d1, looking at Civil's posts they look reasonable from a town pov
the thing I'm slightly concerned with is their thing with the Mafia Scum title. Why do they think it brings unnecessary attention hmmm
but the thing is it was d1, leaving that in the back of my thoughts
Could someone please provide me with a votecount when they were on E-2? That would be very useful. I blame kindle.
(I mean still better than phone lol)

Yeah, I’m not so sure about that. He does give strong Newbie vibes, but this could easily be faked by a capable player, and is a good strategy to get towncred.

I am okay with leaving

Civil Scum

be for now though.

Ah yes, I should learn how to lurk like a real pro…
I can also see this as softly casting aspersions on any of the accusations I’ve made this game instead of dealing with them head on. Kinda seems like you’re defending Bazuf.

Feel like unvoting this early reduces any sort of reactions we can get from the early wagon.
Like at least make it hurt for Civil.

No, we do not want an RVS vote to reach E-1, unless there is a legitimate reason to suspect that player.

Well.. is there a reason why we should make it hurt for

Civil Scum

?

This seems a little strange coming from someone who had no reservation about putting me at E-2 during RVS. A move which I thought was pretty scummy at the time, yet decided might be a town move since it was a little too blatant. Now I’m not so sure.

Oh my! E-2 already?

Lack of resistance? Interesting!

VOTE: Unvote

The wagon just looks liek teh usual flash town wagon.

If a wagon gets like that in rvs it has great odds than random to be on town. Not somethign that overrules later play but were as the avaerage player starts with 3/13 odds. it skews there odds to between 1/13 and 2/13 of beign scum.

I am still curious as to what your definition of a “flash town wagon” is?

Last question please?

Also you popped back in recently and asked questions of Greetings and Naerys. Do you not have questions for any of the ten other players?

[bob3141]

See if you dont look at game trying to see if they are solving you miss if they town trying to solve but not strongly showing or scum actual just trying to look like they are solving. Thats why quick meta dives are important.

An example of teh latter is what naerys post appears like. I response to pord on there reads rather than comign out with one or two like greating. They come out with read list that made to look like reads but is actualy mostly game recap. e.g. nurses claim but no actual read on what this means. This response is also deviation from there 3 completed town games.

bazuf read is also very bad as it has them saying they are suspicous but also could be wrong. First says to few posts to get read, then say last post was bad but not why and then bit of i could be wrong. But they never say what they could be wrong on as well. Which deviates from there newbie game town meta which at least shows some vote reason and these over explanation.


And for the amount wrtiten most of it boils down to null and town read but with no explanation.

odds very good that nearys is new scum

[bob3141]

oh I refer to flash wagon as a wagon motivated by town players that happens quickly. It can land on scum or town but who it lands has an effect how scum join in so it tends to skew results.

[Civil Scum]

Well you didn’t answer my questions and the I find comprehending some of your writing to be quite difficult.

That said, you may be making a few good points about Naerys which I need to consider.

[Civil Scum]

Ninja’d

Ok I kind of understand I guess.

And of the ten other players?

[DragonEater70]

VC 1.04

Votecount 1.04

Bellaphant (2):

Bazuf, bob3141

Bazuf (2):

Civil Scum, Naerys

Starfire (1):

Political Clout

Save The Dragons (1):

iamveryhappy

Civil Scum (1):

Save The Dragons

Hu Tao (1):

Starfire

Naerys (1):

KatyKimFanClub

Not Voting (4):

Greeting, Random Nurse, Bellaphant, Hu Tao

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to secure an elimination.

The day deadline is in (expired on 2023-08-13 08:30:11).

Mod Notes:

• Bazuf would be due a prod if it wasn't the weekend. Due to slower prod timers on the weekend, Bazuf is due a prod in 12 hours.

[iamveryhappy]

Yeah I just have to say that what Greeting said about me possibly acting confused newbie town really is bizarre to me. The things he pointed to that I said were not alignment indicative in the slightest, so why not just say I could be newbie scum, why apply this extra layer onto my behavior of ‘he could be a competent scum pretending to be newbie’.

Also I’m just going to post my read list and then take a break, I’m being a bit OCD I realize.

I’m order of increasing scumminess with an asterisk indicating a possible failed read on my part, or to say that I think the player seems town but might just be scum playing a very good game (lord knows I’ve been wrong before):

Civil Scum- of course

STD- on meta

Starfire*- just a read

Bellaphant- for reasons previously stated

Naerys- on meta

Random Nurse*- obviously hasn’t given much to work with but was the first person to come back and take me off E-2. Gets plenty of points from me for that.

Iamveryhappy- tough to read but I liked that he made note that my asking about the mafia scum tag under my name seemed a little paranoid. I would argue WIFOM since as scum I wouldn’t draw attention to myself in this way, but I’m glad he mentioned it cause it seemed like an obvious question to be asking.

Hu Tao- really unsure about them so far but haven’t done anything particularly scummy.

Political Clout- I initially thought that his banter with Starfire seemed like genuine scum hunting, but personally I am able to go after others pretty hard and pretty convincingly when I’m scum, and I’m sure many people here can so I’m taking those towny points away.

KKFC- He seems pro town at times but I’m struggling to put much faith in some of his arguments thus far.

Bob- for reasons stated (see my ISO)

Greetings- for reasons stated

Bazuf- Bazuf top scum and due for a prod shortly if I’m not mistaken.

That does not cover anything about stuff other than me/you interactions.

[bob3141]

Well you didn’t answer my questions and the I find comprehending some of your writing to be quite difficult.

That said, you may be making a few good points about Naerys which I need to consider.

I ask question as i follow lines of enquiry but mostly at this i ask question towards teh players im having a first pass at sorting. Some players i sort in different manner too

[iamveryhappy]

…like me! My playstyle you won’t get in 200 years.

[bob3141]

I have no idea whether to resurrect my conversation with hu tao or not difficult to say all things considered like I get he is getting ahem "VIBES" or whatever but you have to talk us through those vibes what about it where have you seen it before what about it being awkward is likely to come from scum I see no thought process or thought progression where I can say hmm this is clearly town posting and is hu tao town thinking townie thoughts Hu Tao admita later own they're not even paying attention to the game of who replaced whom very concerning, I am concern. I have some thoughts on bobby who is trying to crawl inside of hu tao which is super weird like the space y'know is their room for activities y'know? If anything it just makes me paranoid that Bobbo is trying to get me and hu tao to fight but nay I shan't hu taos avatar is too adorable. Also bobster said a lot of things I disagree with but I balance the weight of starting an irrelevant conversation and trying to talk to Bob who just sounds like they are talking at people. Bob might be deserving of a vote...

Civil ape is town. I think happy can be town too. I digress. My point is that Hu Tao is on balance null and boberino is a scum lean. I've completely forgotten to respond to Starfire lol.

To be honest if i was scum and you two were town i would be doing that but you wouldnt notice. So that is healthy level of paranoia


What i do is throw pebbles and see what ripples form. That how i read games. I call out your shade of hu tao and see what happens (pebble) to see if its town casting shade or scum throwing shade. Both do it for different reasons and that can show in how they respond. Now for small post like that scum is more likely to ignor it then try and defend themeselves. So leaning a bit towards town for you for now

[Greeting]

In your vast experience surely you could present one in-game example of a person faking newbie tendencies and getting town cred for it.

Sure. In this game I was instructing an actual newbie player to use that fact to his advantage by faking doubt and seeming confused. We ended up winning. Hence why I am not townreading you for newbieness.

[Greeting]

Yeah I just have to say that what Greeting said about me possibly acting confused newbie town really is bizarre to me. The things he pointed to that I said were not alignment indicative in the slightest, so why not just say I could be newbie scum, why apply this extra layer onto my behavior of ‘he could be a competent scum pretending to be newbie’.

Also I’m just going to post my read list and then take a break, I’m being a bit OCD I realize.

I’m order of increasing scumminess with an asterisk indicating a possible failed read on my part, or to say that I think the player seems town but might just be scum playing a very good game (lord knows I’ve been wrong before):

Civil Scum- of course

STD- on meta

Starfire*- just a read

Bellaphant- for reasons previously stated

Naerys- on meta

Random Nurse*- obviously hasn’t given much to work with but was the first person to come back and take me off E-2. Gets plenty of points from me for that.

Iamveryhappy- tough to read but I liked that he made note that my asking about the mafia scum tag under my name seemed a little paranoid. I would argue WIFOM since as scum I wouldn’t draw attention to myself in this way, but I’m glad he mentioned it cause it seemed like an obvious question to be asking.

Hu Tao- really unsure about them so far but haven’t done anything particularly scummy.

Political Clout- I initially thought that his banter with Starfire seemed like genuine scum hunting, but personally I am able to go after others pretty hard and pretty convincingly when I’m scum, and I’m sure many people here can so I’m taking those towny points away.

KKFC- He seems pro town at times but I’m struggling to put much faith in some of his arguments thus far.

Bob- for reasons stated (see my ISO)

Greetings- for reasons stated

Bazuf- Bazuf top scum and due for a prod shortly if I’m not mistaken.

So, let me get this straight.

You are very sure that

Bazuf

is mafia because he is a low poster and that I am scum for defending him, even though I never even mentioned him in my posts?

I also don't see an asterisk near those reads, does that mean that you are absolutely certain of them?

[Naerys]

Why does Naerys still think something that she admits in 214 she misinterpreted is weird?

Please explain to me why you still think my post about Civil is weird please.

As i said before i posted my read list, i was about to reread. And in ISO your post simply looks weird to me, Katy.

214 lacks conviction. At first, I read Naerys as someone who is just kind of paranoid and making a readslist a little too early into the game, but actually the post seems weirdly calculated to suspect, or at least have harbor fears about, a lot more than three people in a game where we've already talked about how there's probably three scum.

I dont think i am being as paranoid as in my previous games. And i came to conclusion its better to express my own opinions, even if they are wrong. What i actually have fear from, is being lead by a scum like a useful fool. I dont want that, thank you very much.

[Naerys]

nice
I feel like you'd have weird/mixed feelings about me too
If you were to case me right now, what would you put

Right now i dont know.

[Naerys]

An example of teh latter is what naerys post appears like. I response to pord on there reads rather than comign out with one or two like greating. They come out with read list that made to look like reads but is actualy mostly game recap. e.g. nurses claim but no actual read on what this means. This response is also deviation from there 3 completed town games.

You might be right about that. My previous games were like 2-3 years ago and honestly, i believe i kinda made stuff worse for the town in atleast one of them. I dont want to mess up things, at this point its hard to come up with more than i already have.

[Bellaphant]

Random catchu up thoughts since page 9:
I liked nearys'd read post. It is a bit vague but I'm also finding the game a little hard to parse, so it's a pass from me.

Agree much more with Bob than civil about scum hunting, but am tr-ing civil a lot more than Bob.

I re-read the greeting/civil convo three times and am not really sure what I'm missing? Obviously it can be faked, but tr-ign civil for newbie-ness isnt what people are doing anyway?


Happgs probably town. @pc, hii. I really enjoyed playing with you: can you throw some questions my way?

[bob3141]

An example of teh latter is what naerys post appears like. I response to pord on there reads rather than comign out with one or two like greating. They come out with read list that made to look like reads but is actualy mostly game recap. e.g. nurses claim but no actual read on what this means. This response is also deviation from there 3 completed town games.

You might be right about that. My previous games were like 2-3 years ago and honestly, i believe i kinda made stuff worse for the town in atleast one of them. I dont want to mess up things, at this point its hard to come up with more than i already have.

If you are town then the best thing is to work out who your unsure on like null slots and either ask them questions or push them. As it often much easier to get a read on a player when they are reacting to you then others

[bob3141]

i also am trying to solve so calling me out for just trolling is being disingenuous

just cuz i play different doesn't mean i'm not trying. i already made a small case for civil scum being scum

How is your solving going so far, do you have any town or scum reads so far?

[iamveryhappy]

oh great
my name is apparently Happgs
it's iamveryhappy.

[iamveryhappy]

Random Nurse

- Hard to read for me and claims to be a 1-shot Bulletproof Miller, his posts seem to lack a substance, honestly dont know what to think of him right now

Bazuf

- I need more posts from this player. Usage of those "..." in his last post is rubbing me a wrong way, might be a silly thing though.

Bellaphent

- I am inclined to believe Bella is town. Or, at the very least, is trying to be seen to be helpful.

bob3141

- The stuff you wrote about wagons makes sense, i have a town gut feeling there

Civil Scum

- As bob wrote, early wagon might indicate that Scum is a town. Interesting is, that he believe that Bob might be scum.

Greeting

- Too low number of posts to think anything, really.

Hu Tao

- Too little data from posts. Honestly feels like " i am talking, but i dont really put an effort"

iamveryhappy

-

He feels as if he is trying to solve. Somehow it doesnt feel entirely good tho

, but i cannot really say why. But in later posts feels more towny. Lets just say i have confused gut feelings about him for now.

KatyKimFanClub

- Yes, i admit i thought you wanted to push for Civil. Still feels weird to me.

Political Clout

- Clout vs Starfire interaction feels more like a misunderstanding to me, not as something scum indicative to either player. As of right now, Clout is a null read for me.

Save The Dragons

- Feels very suspicious. And those trolling posts arent really helping.

StarFire

- Same as Clout. Null to me right now.

eh
but I swear in a post you said you don't know what to case me with.
Why am I trying so hard to not call you BaeRYS lol
(crippling vtuber addiction go brrr)