mystery box of silver 15: i'm killing hostages (negotiated)

[Ranger]

well until you can verbalize what has tangibly changed in your playstyle, i have nothing more to discuss on this topic

I'm more succinct. I use different verbiage. I quote less per post. I effort less. I've a different sense of humor. (Far more snark, usually deadpan.) I use emotes less. I internalized my readslist change process to make snap-judgements more instinctively, rather than manually. There's more changed than the same. When reading my old games, I was

shocked

at how much a literally different person I was. My mental memory stated the differences were quite small. Doing any research, I found the list of what's different much longer than what remained.

[DkKoba]

VOTE: ranger
i changed my mind again, ranger is not using townie logic at all and they are fully capable of citing posts to make their point very easily, as an autistic person, the autism excuse is weak and boring

[schadd_]

Spoiler:

vote count 1.4 !

DkKoba (7):

Doctor Drew, Ranger, PookyTheMagicalBear, Meuh, Alisae, HighPrincessErinys, xyzzy

ofrhz (4):

The Bulge, Dannflor, MUSHSHAGANA, Skygazer

PookyTheMagicalBear (2):

RCEnigma, SirCakez

Ranger (2):

Morning Tweet, DkKoba

SirCakez (1):

iamveryhappy

iamveryhappy (1):

ofrhz

not voting (2):

BlueSnakelet, sheepsaysmeep

with 19 alive, it takes 10 to rake someone over the coals. day 1 ends when you make it end. i'm killing hostages.

moderateur notes

• ranger is VLA at various times in the near future per 292

[Ranger]

well until you can verbalize what has tangibly changed in your playstyle, i have nothing more to discuss on this topic

I'm more succinct. I use different verbiage. I quote less per post. I effort less. I've a different sense of humor. (Far more snark, usually deadpan.) I use emotes less. I internalized my readslist change process to make snap-judgements more instinctively, rather than manually. There's more changed than the same. When reading my old games, I was

shocked

at how much a literally different person I was. My mental memory stated the differences were quite small. Doing any research, I found the list of what's different much longer than what remained.

Actually, I've a better answer for this.

Old-Ranger was visibly closer to the player on the right. Visibly, if you read their more recent games, they talk very similarly to old-Ranger. (Which makes sense. They did steal their current style

from

old-Ranger.)

New-Ranger is on the left.

[DkKoba]

i was willing to bin ranger as town up until they made their meta claim about me: anyone who has actually read my meta would not be assuming i am scum here. "zomg u argued with shirou with team mafia that means when u argue with someone who scumreads you that means ur scum"

is what i am assuming ranger has at best, and if so they should actually say that.


if yall just wanna vote me out bc u dont wanna play with me whatever. i am clearly willing to put in effort and if u think im so scummy leave me around to "spew" some more. watch as your partner reads off me dont bear fruit because i dont have any (granted -> I think

i do wonder if xyzzy called ranger/me scum theater just in case ranger got wagoned and flipped so i can be pushed after or to gut the ranger push after i flipped town? random thought

i dont wanna see anyone saying "lol obvious t/t" kill pooky if i die, if red 100% kill ranger right after. dont let pooky fool u with his tricks bc he is super manipulative.

half the playerlist isnt even playing so whatever

[DkKoba]

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... ampionship

here have this game, read the arguments I have with seven and conq and santygrass. i am comparing you to how seven treated me that game. uninteractive scumreading of players without a real chance to discuss.

[Ranger]

from what i read from your old games i kinda thought you would be better than being a level 1 tunneler if youre town here tho tbh

My reads are fluid, and change by the circumstances.

By respecting your scumgame and believing your current push is reminiscent of it, you remain a scumread off the evolving circumstances. There's

evidence

you'd be town by now. It was absent previously and has since been generated. There's also evidence you're scum, absent previously and now generated.

I'm sure you'll ask me to explain. This I might do. Not tonight. No promises, yet I can outline the town vs. scum in more recent posts on Wednesday if rl circumstances don't change.

[DkKoba]

i just want someone to have a nuanced and deep conversation about mafia with rather than this stupid debunking cycle that i get into every other towngame because i have to teach people how to not assume things and if they *do* assume to LISTEN to the clarification.

i need skygazer they are my favorite player this game

[DkKoba]

from what i read from your old games i kinda thought you would be better than being a level 1 tunneler if youre town here tho tbh

My reads are fluid, and change by the circumstances.

By respecting your scumgame and believing your current push is reminiscent of it, you remain a scumread off the evolving circumstances. There's

evidence

you'd be town by now. It was absent previously and has since been generated. There's also evidence you're scum, absent previously and now generated.

I'm sure you'll ask me to explain. This I might do. Not tonight. No promises, yet I can outline the town vs. scum in more recent posts on Wednesday if rl circumstances don't change.

did u know.. um.. that.... peoples scumgames.. um... tend to mimic their umm,.,............ towngames sometimes.. super CRAZY i know. idk how u cant see that im actually trying to pull answers out of you! i dont think ur reads are fluid at all, in fact after like page 5 theyve stayed pretty much the same!

[Ranger]

whatever I decided that u are probably town I just wanted u to give me something I can actually argue against

I believe this mindset does betray a scum alignment.

I'll recognize it's not exclusively a scum mindset; town can think this way.

I believe your search for something to argue against is specifically your scumgame, as searching for something to argue against isn't solving the game; searching for something to argue against is a tool to look better.

[Ranger]

no one gives a fucking shit about seeing things from my pov and then when I flip town it's like "oh no how did we Misread koba"

I'll own up to mistakes I make and take full accountability for being wrong if you are town.

I don't think you are.

[DkKoba]

whatever I decided that u are probably town I just wanted u to give me something I can actually argue against

I believe this mindset does betray a scum alignment.

I'll recognize it's not exclusively a scum mindset; town can think this way.

I believe your search for something to argue against is specifically your scumgame, as searching for something to argue against isn't solving the game; searching for something to argue against is a tool to look better.

THERE IS A 7 PERSON WAGON ON ME RIGHT NOW THAT WAS 6 PERSON JUST EARLIER

OF FUCKING COURSE I AM SEEKING OUT TO REDUCE THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE ON SAID WAGON BY ARGUING MY CASE AND SEEING IF ANYONE ON MY WAGON IS PUSHING ME FOR SCUMMY REASONS

your assumptions are TERRIBLE and if you actually read any sampling of any of my towngames, you would see that i get defensive of being wagoned and get distracted from solving.

your meta reading is not effective. you do not know how to use meta as a tool. please do not continue to do so if you end up miseliminating me and are town. you are banned from using meta upon my flip.

[Ranger]

does this LOOK like a gamestate where I have 4 buddies to help me??

No. Alas, this isn't the clearing argument you think, given the game's been open for less than 48 hours and the predominant forces in the game have been precisely {DKKoba, Ranger}.

Your scumbuddies wouldn't be able to assist you. They wouldn't know how. You're too active for anyone to keep up with rn.

I'll say it doesn't condemn you, either. Your activity being too high for anyone to keep up with is a fact. I believe that fact doesn't indicate alignment either way.

[DkKoba]

i am literally sacrificing sleep to prove u wrong. i just need to find a game where i get voted as town d1

[Ranger]

yeah something I can agree on because you dont have one to examine.

I

do

. That you can't see it here is suspect.

Name something I have done that isn't suspect

A lot of your more recent posting, actually. There's still content within I feel betrays a scum alignment. However, whereas previously I wasn't seeing any town, now I see a fair amount.

Respectfully, I'm too exhausted to point it out tonight. Soonest I could is Wednesday.

At this stage, if I say I believe a specific thing from you is suspect, then I think that thing is suspect. If I

don't

point something out, at this stage, I

don't

think it's suspect. I may be replying to a great deal; I'm aiming suspicion at only some of it because your more recent posting I can see as town.

[DkKoba]

viewtopic.php?t=88280 -> part of a hydra with gamma, i get into an argument with someone pushing me for BS reasons in the hood, located here:

this is similar enough and i dont care to hunt down my alts for more recent games bc most of my recentish games were on alts.

oh also bonus i saw scp game right under and i know i got into a bunch of t/t fights in that game lolz, not even the worst bc i had to argue with LLD who thought being a vig in a theme game was clearing and her reads were 0/3 (kinda similar frustration i guess as how i feel here with u pushing me and one of my higher townreads)

Subject: Mini 2240: SCP Upick (SCP 682 Ending)

UNVOTE: SCP 999

Alright, let's give this game a little more effort. Here are my thoughts right now:

Taking back the suspicion on Zyla, they have little content but I don't dislike their last two posts, and the day 1 wasn't on them.

I'm thinking town on Ampharos, this is mostly just feels based off of playing a few games with her. Night 1 action targeting me is interesting but doesn't need an explanation today, and is more likely to be town than not. This is not a good place to be pushing today, regardless, based on how day 1 went down and them not being involved in that.

I think Dwlee is fine. Can think about this more when they have more but I'm not interested in going there today either.

Galron gets a very light town read for their posting on day 1. I'm not sure why a call was made for pressure here since they were posting on day 1.

I think LLD is more likely to be town telling the truth than mafia making a gambit. We can figure it out later with claims.

I like Roden's posts on day 2.

Sircakez vote reasoning was one of the most plausible/justifiable from what I've seen. Other than that, they haven't done anything at all, and seemed pretty unconcerned coming into today.

I don't like the places SCP 999 has decided to focus today. If I have my way today, we won't be eliminating any of those players they've pushed today. I don't like that they then claimed to not be ascetic last night, and felt the need to "prove" that they had an ability that cost 2 D-class personnel. Their "reaction test" earlier didn't make sense. Seems to be going out of their way to disrupt the day phase.

I don't like the way Cephrir acts like Strangematter was really scummy. They really weren't... they posted, like, 3 times, and got jumped on for very flimsy reasons, followed by pushing instead of pulling back after an early cop claim. Day 2 play is mostly focused on defending themself, though they do have some reads as well. I don't like their spot on the Strangematter Wagon.

Infinity Zero started day 1 with a lot of mech talk around SCP 999's role, then transitioned into voting for Strangematter in 96 for very dubious reasons (how does it feel like that and why is Strangmatter a scumread at this point in time?) They also push instead of pulling back with the early cop claim. On day 2, Gamma getting mad about something insubstantial is definitely his scum meta. 149 kind of misses the point of what I am asking (which is if they have anyone as a scumread, not their townreads.) They do a woe is me thing for a bit which does not look town to me. In 183 they ask a question that feels more like a distraction than solving (and my answer to that is that I don't care for the premise, they may or may not have done so, but that isn't how I'm sorting people.) Their vote on Ampharos is lame.


[LLD]
[Ampharos]
[Zyla, Roden, Dwlee, Galron]
[SirCakez, Scp 999, Cephrir]]
[Infinity Zero]

Middle tier is above null in my eyes but I don't want to write them off for later as there is not much to look at there.
I am looking in the bottom 2 tiers for mafia. I don't think there are less than 2 mafia within that pool of 4, at the very least.

"I dont like the places scp 999 has decided to - " gonna stop you right there chief- you're going the level 1 route of assuming disagree = mafia. Why is my thoughts process behind my actions not town? You're working backwards - you dont *want* me to be town because you dont like my actions. Lets not get into those traps here - if thats how you reached conclusion on me and then preflipped me into dwlee townread(which is terrible if you actually bothered to read that iso, youre literally just preflipping me into them) - I have no reason to trust your reads are even remotely holistic.

[DkKoba]

oops forgot the hood link: viewtopic.php?t=88291

[DkKoba]

but anyways: ofc solving has taken a bit of backseat bc im legitimately at danger of elimination atm, part of mafia is proving yourself town too and getting miseliminated is bad. i always will prioritize removing a wagon on myself over hardcore solving -> i will try to solve AROUND my wagon but i will not move my focus too much (mostly a skill issue on my part) until its gone bc its hard for me to unstick myself from being frustrated over being pushed

[Ranger]

Always the fucking same boring ass circular arguments that can't be overcome because the person with the read refuses to listen and is so far up their tunnel they forgot that it's ok to admit they're wrong

I do admit when I'm wrong. My reads are always fluid. They change on whims. I won't force a player to be more scum than they are.

I recognize you've town indicators.

I believe these town indicators aren't outside your scum range, and I believe you've stronger scum indicators demonstrating the town indicators not outside your scum range are you producing town indicators as scum. This belief, I've already specified may be wrong, as it requires validating by doing some research on your meta and verifying my mental memory of events. I've not the time to tonight, nor tomorrow. Thus...Wednesday, with luck.

[DkKoba]

as i pointed out, several slots have not really posted recently ( i tend to play at hyperspeed vs how others play, thus my post count)

like i have a take on every slot that has been *active* somewhere in the thread, and even some of the inactive ones, just bc i dont put it into one list all the timedoesnt make me not solving the game or actively looking broadly.

[Ranger]

The post you replied to is a sign, maybe you're just not reading bud

I read the post in question. It was literally making an argument. If you want to claim "I was being frustrated, not making an argument" for a post I see an argument within...then I'm going to be skeptical.


There's no sign of frustration within. My ability to read tone is certainly far from perfect. I read none present in 536.

[DkKoba]

ok dont let me post for (expired on 2023-08-09 13:35:09)

i have posted more than 2x the next highest person and people are prob gonna kill me for flooding thread anyways and making it "unreadable" lol

o well

i will claim if needed but otherwise radio silence

[DkKoba]

The post you replied to is a sign, maybe you're just not reading bud

I read the post in question. It was literally making an argument. If you want to claim "I was being frustrated, not making an argument" for a post I see an argument within...then I'm going to be skeptical.

There's no sign of frustration within. My ability to read tone is certainly far from perfect. I read none present in 536.

2 things... can be 1

[DkKoba]

[ok sorry 1 last post but im at

e-3

pls keep that in mind if u pop into thread now]

[Ranger]

Should I scumread you for assuming my meta without reading it?

I've read your meta before. There's a difference between reading the meta and remembering it. I've a mental memory of what I read. My memory, flawed as it is, should be refreshed.

You're free to scumread me for whatever you please. I'll tell you it'd certainly be

wrong

, yet it's your right. I work off memory a lot. I recognize this flaw, yet still make use of imperfect memories to save time. My memory is a shortcut I use to verify or disprove when I've the time to research.