mystery box of silver 15: i'm killing hostages (negotiated)

[MUSHSHAGANA]

Your effort has nothing to do with your scumread. This early in the game, especially.

We're telling you the same we tell everyone else across all our games, since you like meta. We don't care about meta and meta is not going to convince us of anything. In fact, if we have a read based on meta we're going to treat it as trash and, if anything, be biased to swinging away from it. As with Pooky now, in fact.

If you want to convince us, convince us with current play, not long dead games. There is no other option for you. There is, in fact, no other option for anyone.

--Orphee Nuit

[DkKoba]

you tell me I'm scum bc of some voodoo ass wagonomics and me townreading someone and defending them, put yourself in my shoes as town. You get accused of the things you're accusing me of. No, you don't get to say "I wouldn't defend orf". What do you do? Of course you say "yeah that's just bullshit I'm town and that doesn't make sense bc i said this bc I believe it"

Most of you scumreadibg me have decided im scum for something NAI, then started twisting my play no matter what to a scumread.

At least I can hold this game against you all after it finishes next time I get pushed like this , just like how I am using a previous game with cakez lmao

[DkKoba]

Your effort has nothing to do with your scumread. This early in the game, especially.

We're telling you the same we tell everyone else across all our games, since you like meta. We don't care about meta and meta is not going to convince us of anything. In fact, if we have a read based on meta we're going to treat it as trash and, if anything, be biased to swinging away from it. As with Pooky now, in fact.

If you want to convince us, convince us with current play, not long dead games. There is no other option for you. There is, in fact, no other option for anyone.

--Orphee Nuit

My current play is easily findable as town, your fault for not trying to understand me as a person to understand my motives for why I say things. You are here to play a game where you are debating with evidence, telling me good evidence of baseline behavior is bad and doesn't work.
Anyways breaks over, I will dive into slots when I get home.

[MUSHSHAGANA]

As regards 651: False.

Curse has used these exact sort of reads to catch red in the past.

Also, you're wrong on what we'd do in your position. This early, in Day 1, right now, if someone had a well-reasoned scumread on us, we'd ask them to detail it, see if there are any holes in their argument from their perspective, regardless of our thoughts on that argument's merits, and if there are none, move on. Ignore them. For instance, we hate meta, but would accept a meta scumread as just something we don't understand enough to fix.

We do get tunnelled on low-explanation scumreads of our slot, or ones that attribute specific particular thoughts to us. But if you and we were to swap positions right now, we would genuinely just move on. If there's nothing to be done, there's nothing to be done, and they've done their due diligence from their perspective. All we can do is hope to argue our case to others.

As regards 652:

We find meta absolutely worthless in all but a very few cases. Those cases are always cases we seek to minimize or eliminate from our play, they are only temporary stabilizers for the early game or if we have lost sight of the game-state. Everyone who argues about the merits of meta with us fails to understand that nothing will change that for us, because we could switch to single-member games and have rotations, and then all meta would fail on us. We know people who can convincingly take on the guise of another person for a single conversation, so fully that they become unrecognizable, and they aren't even plural. There are people who even learn from past mistakes.

Meta is useless. We will never be convinced otherwise. This approach has benefitted us in every game that we have had sight of the game-state.

--Orphee Nuit

[DkKoba]

Well curse got lucky 3 times and they're using gamblers fallacy ?? Meta is not useless, you're just too afraid to apply it correctly.

1 dimensional reads are the real trash and that's what your read is, 1 dimensional.

X happened so Y

Like that's not a consistent way

LIKE I CANT FUCKING ARGUE ANYTHING ORHER THAN "OH THIS IS NOT A GOOD REASON BC WTF ITS NOT A REAL THING

[DkKoba]

Also clear you aren't listening youtr just defending your ego so cheers I wish you a very big shame if I flip

[MUSHSHAGANA]

If it was just the wagon-stall, one-dimensional might be correct. There's also the way that other scummy players positioned around you. Players who are scummy independent of you. There's also how you went, unheralded, from "this player is bad and I will not miss them" to a hard-defense of the same slot. There's also the dynamics of the 1v1 with you and Ranger, from frustrated to purely combative to resigned to combative to resigned for real.

The read isn't one-dimensional, you just don't like the dimensions. Fair, but we aren't changing how we play for you anymore than we'd expect you to change how you play for us.

--Orphee Nuit

[DkKoba]

If it was just the wagon-stall, one-dimensional might be correct. There's also the way that other scummy players positioned around you. Players who are scummy independent of you. There's also how you went, unheralded, from "this player is bad and I will not miss them" to a hard-defense of the same slot. There's also the dynamics of the 1v1 with you and Ranger, from frustrated to purely combative to resigned to combative to resigned for real.

The read isn't one-dimensional, you just don't like the dimensions. Fair, but we aren't changing how we play for you anymore than we'd expect you to change how you play for us.

--Orphee Nuit

2 1 dimensional reasons do not math into more

[MUSHSHAGANA]

Count again: there are four reasons.

And if we're talking math, yes, two one-dimensional vectors do combine into a two dimensional plane, unless they are the same vector scaled differently. Any two basis vectors that aren't the same vector scaled differently can reach any point on the plane.

Similarly, two reasons that individually would not make us scumread someone may together cover enough ground that we feel comfortable doing so.

--Orphee Nuit

[HighPrincessErinys]

This one still has a few doubts about Koba but it's just gonna park here instead.
VOTE: ofrhz
Not a fan of your vibes, let alone what this one pointed out in 472.

[Ranger]

Spoiler: system stuff

If you want more insight into our head, quick rundown. Most of our posts are written primarily by Miranda. Some, by Hera. We’ve an unnamed motherly facet involved as well, and Talia our flirting facet is trying to return too.

Aside from Talia and maybe the motherly one, none of us played in 2016.

Back when we started playing, we didn’t know we’re plural.

When we did, we erroneously thought we had only two facets, one of them Ranger.

Mid-2022, we realized there’s hundreds of us, and we didn’t form just then. Most of us had been there the whole time.

So, we didn’t know each other by name in 2016.

We can read older posts and identify sentence by sentence the voice which wrote it. This is how we can often tell a facet isn’t brand new, and is instead simply recently recognized individually.

So, it’s hard to piece together who, exactly, made up the 2016 Ranger.

Near as we can tell

, the main Fronter on 2016 Ranger was Barbie. (We've known of her for a long time and named her 15 minutes ago. She’s our casual chatting yet also rambley facet.)

Barbie is, and always has been, a major facet, nearly always among our fronters, and is fairly omnipresent. She’s a migrant. While most facets are somewhat compartmentalized, Barbie largely isn’t.

There’s at least some chance she could be the original host, or be close to. She’s among the oldest and most prominent of our facets, and might age identically to our body.

As far as we know, back in 2016, Barbie wasn’t playing mafia outside of on Ranger. Yet part of the reason we retired is because she gradually

migrated

. She wasn’t around in our games, and was intruding in other games.

When we stopped playing on Ranger, she didn’t. She kept playing, to the point where we no longer associate her with Ranger. She might have built the foundation of our 2016 playstyle, yet we now associate her with someone else.

Because we currently see her as more associated with another, when we returned to playing, we didn’t invite her to play with us. In fact, we asked her to stay out. So, the main fronter for 2016 isn’t playing with us these days.

Back then, other fronters included Hermione, at least one currently unnamed jokester facet (probably two), at least one currently unnamed motherly facet, and Talia, our flirtatious facet.

When we resumed playing with me, Miranda, as the main player, we knew the Ranger of old wasn’t entirely present, and it’d take time for us to slowly ease in to our place. We’re still working on it.

We’ll probably never get there fully. Barbie was our 2016 main fronter, I’m our current main fronter. We’re still rebuilding though, and I believe

eventually

, We’ll get as close as possible with a different main fronter.

We might have more to say, yet for now, I can’t think of more.

I hope this helps explain why 2016 Ranger was quite literally someone else though.

[Ranger]

VOTE: ofhrz
While We’re here.

[MUSHSHAGANA]

This one still has a few doubts about Koba but it's just gonna park here instead.
VOTE: ofrhz
Not a fan of your vibes, let alone what this one pointed out in 472.

We agree ofrhz is a better option right now. We don't think Koba can get out of this hole and make a dramatic turnaround, and we think they're the winning candidate for an Edman dinger if we're wrong on alignment, which would be a way better way to confirm there.

ofrhz is under-the radar, doing ratfuckery. That's ordinarily my job (out of games, that is), so I'm understandably a bit angry about this.

--Orphee Nuit

[MUSHSHAGANA]

...Pretend I put the correct number of dashes there. Under-the-radar. Like that.

I blame the gluten.

--Orphee Nuit

[DkKoba]

Why I'm town: (quick version) I have a fairly broad view of the game as best I can
- I put nuance into my reads
- I have used a lot of quick meta to check people. As scum I avoid this because it lowers the ability to be bad faith
- i have moved my reads multiple times in a way that is inconsistent if I have an agenda
- I care about being correct and others being correct
- I actually go to bat for my townreads

[DkKoba]

I'm still a strong believer that orf will trend town , however like i understand its not enough atm to better prove it. My townread is based on my belief of a trend i feel is underlying in their play (i tend to do these trend based reads where I predict how the person's posts will continue to be based on the limited amount, how I typically find low content slots if I have to find a read)

I'm willing to compromise on xyzzy although I always prefer pushing my most confident scumread who is pooky.

I'll also share i briefly considered claiming Venge bc I did somewhat soft PR with the "i will claim if i have to" line (the setup doesnt specify there are no PRs when I looked)
A micro reason for pooiy scum is the feeling he TMI that there are unlikely to be roles although that is unreliable and more of a post game "yeah I recognized this" thing and there are more compelling reasons to scumread pooky

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

A) pooky is blatantly openwolfing and idk how pooky gets away with this dumb playstyle as scum everytime and people just lap it up like he put you under a spell

its my years of experience

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Then don't try to pretend you can accurately read him like that and see that the quality of his play is poor and at least he should be pushed to a higher standard of play instead of whatever this is.

lol @ quality of play

[MUSHSHAGANA]

I mean, Ad trusts you right now Pooky, so I'm gonna say you've either defeated the danger-sense that we didn't know even existed until it caused a surprise game-winning replace-out a couple months back, or you're provisionally town.

--Curse, signing because Orphee's kinda too close to its voice for its liking right now.

[DkKoba]

I mean, Ad trusts you right now Pooky, so I'm gonna say you've either defeated the danger-sense that we didn't know even existed until it caused a surprise game-winning replace-out a couple months back, or you're provisionally town.

--Curse, signing because Orphee's kinda too close to its voice for its liking right now.

Or because he's scum , he isn't solving and you scumresd his solving style... you should seriously consider *why* you Misread town pooky because I'm like fairly sure this is it.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

its d1 of a 19p with no flips yet, i dont need to solve shit, i just need to kill the baddies one at a time and laugh at how dumb nightless is as a setup because the baddies cant shoot me

[DkKoba]

Idk fam seems too self assured to assume the reason is because you "finally got it" and not "I'm wrong again"
Bc you didn't actually figure out why you Misread in the first place

[MUSHSHAGANA]

Uh, I already did consider why I misread town Pooky? I always do a post-mortem of my play after the end of a game. It's even in all the threads. Each time, I reread the whole game and come to conclusions about how myself and everyone else played, mistakes I made, things I can improve on. Except for Burdened By Secrecy, which was a case where Ad stunned our system and the game was over so fast no one else found their footing, if you check the post-game of any game I've played, I analyze my own play or admit that I lost track of the game and can't really recover enough to be sure. Death Curse was a game I was firing on all cylinders, maximum power.

He's doing exactly as much solving as he did in Death Curse. Go ISO that behemoth game if you don't believe me -- and for the record, using Death Curse as an example since you're fond of meta, you're this game's Noraa.

[DkKoba]

its d1 of a 19p with no flips yet, i dont need to solve shit, i just need to kill the baddies one at a time and laugh at how dumb nightless is as a setup because the baddies cant shoot me

Really crazy people actively townread this slot
I can understand a null read but a townread is so laughably careless

[schadd_]

;