Veiled Committee Mafia: List Mods Edition [game over]

[Skygazer]

Actually, she probably should target someone who claims to have no night action and try to force them to act on someone else, to see if there's a tangible result. Alternatively, we can prove her role by having her target someone who has a night action and leashing it, but fakeclaiming puppeteer is suicide so it's almost certainly a trueclaim.

i think the trouble with the first part is itd be hard to see if there's a tangible result

[Bingle]

For now, aureal has NOT full claimed.

Well excuse me for having a complicated long-ass role and not immediately talking about every tiny detail regardless of interest! I said to ask if you had any questions and instead I get shit. I don't even remember all the details and there's things I forget until I look back at the PM again.

Your claim was not "Not claiming minutia" it was "Not claiming most of what the role does". Having a complicated role doesn't mean you don't have to claim all of it in massclaim, and to argue otherwise is just disingenuous.

We still need number of followers to trigger every individual role,

1 to send a message
3 to neighborhood
6 to roleblock and open a neighborhood and autorecruit (same target)
10 to vig and recruit

Is it really so hard to ASK about what you wanna know instead of getting accusatory?

Is it hard to put the relevant information from the claim in the claim instead of, you know, not massclaiming?

whether role chains are recursive,

What?

whether aureal gets to know who has access to each individual’s list of powers.

IT'S A FUCKING PUBLIC ACTION

Do you think I and anyone else who's seen the text needed to open a neighborhood is going to just NOT NOTICE when someone starts spouting off about securing their family's future in the game thread?!? And now that it's all out it's going to be mostly obvious to everyone else too! We'll know the number of recruits we have (I assume xyzzy will say something at night about it, they said they're keeping track). It's not entirely a sure thing that someone accepts the offer once a neighborhood is formed but it's easy to tell when they do the neighborhood, and anyone in the chain above will have their recruit total increase in case of a successful recruit so it shouldn't be that freaking hard to figure!

Already expounded on why Aureal's claim was insufficient in these areas.

The role itself has the very distinct characteristic of not benefiting at all from being last claimed, yet aureal was very concerned with going early because claiming after everyone would break the game. In the strongest case, aureal has a role that functionally turns this game into everyone is a vig.

Not EVERYONE, they can't all have 10 recruits. It'd be up to 7 including me because there's 17 people. Gosh, that math was hard.

And are you trying to say this role cannot break the game and also that there can be a whole bunch of vigs in the same breath??! You don't think having a bunch of vigs breaks the game??

I have not ever said the role isn't strong, and that's a fucking glorious misrep that entirely evades why everything you're doing is scummy as shit. But lets look at this. I agree that 17-10 is seven, but you had not even hinted at those numbers prior to this post, calling me out, for not doing that math. Additionally, you've not at all confirmed that a recruit can only be a recruit for one person (you do imply it for the first time here, in the post where you're criticizing me for not doing math with an equation I don't have and variables you haven't offered).

More importantly, your justification for claiming last was that you had a role that was stronger if people didn't know what it was to play around it. How the fuck would anyone change their claim to play around what you claimed. You could have claimed first, and your role would have exactly the same implications. Fuck, you claiming in the first post D1 would change literally nothing about your role. But you specifically delayed your claim so people couldn't play around having the ability to maybe mulligan their role into a stronger one if they trust you and can convince other people to trust them.

Aureal slipped on part of her role that’s being withheld when talking about me. She mentioned that her role could confirm my role, but prima fasci it does not do that. If I were lying about my role and aureal’s was as claimed, the only thing I’d have to do to not be caught would be not use any visible powers. That tells me there is a significant portion of aureal’s claim that isn’t being said. Based on my role that could be an alignment change mechanic (recruit five people, join scumteam) or a compulsive modifier.

I ALREADY FREAKING EXPLAINED HOW TO CONFIRM YOU WITH IT

IF YOU DON'T THINK THAT WORKS THEN EXPLAIN WHY

SAYING "OH I CAN JUST REFUSE TO CONFIRM MY ROLE" IS NOT AN ACCEPTABLE EXPLANATION BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY IF WE WANT YOU TO CONFIRM IT AND YOU REFUSE YOU GET HELD ACCOUNTABLE

Hey, everyone, I just sent a PM to xyzzy dayvigging Aureal, so I'm obviously not a dayvig. It's confirmed that I can't do that, because I tried and xyzzy hasn't flipped Aureal. Also, I can't make the nightkill because I sent a PM trying to NK Koba. And I can't read the scum PT, so obviously I can't be scum. Isn't mafia easy?

Even then, Aureal doesn’t show any paranoia about scum getting access to vig shots. Vig shots, which I very well believe have utility only in situations where they are known or reasonably certain to be coming from town.

You're really intent on coming up with any sort of way to discredit me and get rid of this power rather than evaluate its potential use, aren't you??

Criticizing perceived attitude rather than the role is a bad look.

It's like you didn't even read my attitude, either, since you're wrong.

Are you fucking kidding me? Are you seriously arguing that I shouldn't attempt to read you on how you play instead of what role you randed? Have you ever played a game of mafia?

Tl;dr, this is probably a Sakura Hana from RC’s UPick type deal where the role is all about scum convincing town to trust them and then profiting.

AniX should accept the power up and claim the information they get, but no one else should accept a power up from either player aorn.

Insert handwaved paranoia because of some other game with no explanation of it or how that could even be relevant in this situation here

Bud, you can fucking flip me after getting these abilities out there, with my own powers that I could give people no less, to make sure I don't have some secret role. But instead you're suggesting that AniX should be barred from using their own abilities without gaining anything from mine and then undoubtedly gets killed before being able to start making use of the Amway powers. Obviously someone without night actions is going to be the ideal place to start up with this, not someone who's going to miss out on stuff.

I expected a lot more from you guys. There's no attempt to evaluate the risks and benefits of these abilities. There is only the desire to squelch them. It's hard to see that not coming from scum.

Yeah, in hindsight, AniX's abilities are actually worth something and we should keep those. We should just lim the shit out of your ass as is.

As far as RC's Anything UPick is concerned, I wasn't the first one to bring it up, Koba was and Irch responded to that. And it was a pretty prevalent game a while back, so it's not a stretch to think literally any of the listmods read it. (In fact, it's likely they all did since it was up for a scummy and I think they were all active at the time). Both of us provided enough information for anyone to be able to find the game fairly easily, and if they couldn't, it would have been a simple thing to ask for this link: viewtopic.php?t=88188

[DkKoba]

tbh aureal's role sounds like the type of power loaded role with townie looking aspects that an average theme mod would design

[DkKoba]

so if I WAS only using mechs to sort aureal i would kill them 100%

but i also think their dayplay scummy so ggez

[Bingle]

i think the trouble with the first part is itd be hard to see if there's a tangible result

?

Target Alisae, Alisae burns you, you burn someone who is consensus scumread, ignite either kills you or consensus scumread.
Target AniX, AniX vigs you, you force AniX to vig someone who isn't you. If you die you liared.

Like, it relies on trusting the person you target, but it is very conceivable that we confirm you by seeing an actual thing happen compared to how I can't be confirmed by not being able to do a thing that doesn't happen publicly.

[Skygazer]

not talking about confirming me, that's easy, i'm talking about trying to confirm someone might have been lying about not having a night action

[DkKoba]

tbh aureal's role sounds like the type of power loaded role with townie looking aspects that an average theme mod would design

power loaded scum role***
i am bad

[DkKoba]

idk who said the thing in bingle's quotes about using someone without night actions but im pretty sure no one involved in that shenanigans was a claimed neg utility/miller so sounds like a contrived thing to say

[Bingle]

so if I WAS only using mechs to sort aureal i would kill them 100%

but i also think their dayplay scummy so ggez

I mean, the mechanical scumslip helps too. It's kinda nice that I'm about to be a BP IC I guess.

[Bingle]

idk who said the thing in bingle's quotes about using someone without night actions but im pretty sure no one involved in that shenanigans was a claimed neg utility/miller so sounds like a contrived thing to say

If you're talking about 1851 that's all aureal quoting me.

[DkKoba]

so if I WAS only using mechs to sort aureal i would kill them 100%

but i also think their dayplay scummy so ggez

I mean, the mechanical scumslip helps too. It's kinda nice that I'm about to be a BP IC I guess.

my desire to sort by mech claims on day 1 doesnt let me catch slips that early tbf, i only start cross referencing stuff once theres claimed night actions

[Bingle]

not talking about confirming me, that's easy, i'm talking about trying to confirm someone might have been lying about not having a night action

Oh, that makes sense. If your role forces your target to act and their role has a tangible effect, you could conceivably catch scum that way. It's not likely, but it's possible. Like, say for example you targeted my and then tried to act on Ircher. If Ircher suddenly dies, despite having ass for a role and not being a shining beacon of towniness whose mere presence is going to draw all the bullets, then I was probably lying about not having an ability. It's like being a framer-finder in a game where a framer has already flipped. You're probably not gonna find a framer, but that doesn't mean you can't try anyway.

And again, it's pretty trivial to say "Whoever gets SkyG's vote has to vote how SkyG wants them to vote with that vote or we lim them." Up into limlo it's no risk to town at all. It's annoying and tedious to enforce, but ultimately has no tangible impact on the game. Which is why voting roles are ass.

[Bingle]

my desire to sort by mech claims on day 1 doesnt let me catch slips that early tbf, i only start cross referencing stuff once theres claimed night actions

There's a portion of her claim that straight up doesn't make sense unless she's withholding information purposefully. I'll wait for her to answer in case it's a mistake, but I'm like 99% sure she's just scum atp.

[DkKoba]

VOTE: aureal

well the slot irks me on a social level so im down anyways

[AniX]

In the worldview where Aureal is scum, is it that they are scum neighborhood maker or that I am also scum?

[DkKoba]

In the worldview where Aureal is scum, is it that they are scum neighborhood maker or that I am also scum?

well one has to wonder why they chose you over a miller claim

[Bingle]

I think all the aspects of Aureal's role that are claimed are true, so it would be slight townpoints to you for being the first target. Scum doesn't frequently publicly target buddies with beneficial abilities.

It's not a locktown case on you, and is significantly weaker than "Willingly isn't a vig tonight" but yeah, I don't think Aurealscum implies you scum at all.

[camelCasedSnivy]

i have zero clue what aureals role does but if im getting limmed i guess i dont need to understand

[camelCasedSnivy]

er i shouldnt say zero clue but i dont understand the specifics of it

[Bingle]

er i shouldnt say zero clue but i dont understand the specifics of it

That's how ponzi schemes generally work, yes.

[Cook]

er i shouldnt say zero clue but i dont understand the specifics of it

That's how ponzi schemes generally work, yes.

god i wanna be on a veiled committee i have so many terrible ideas

why yes i'm running a ponzi scheme. why yes it involves shadowhydras. they're mining crypto for me. it's part of the scumteam's alternate wincon because none of them can do the nightkill

[DkKoba]

I think all the aspects of Aureal's role that are claimed are true, so it would be slight townpoints to you for being the first target. Scum doesn't frequently publicly target buddies with beneficial abilities.

It's not a locktown case on you, and is significantly weaker than "Willingly isn't a vig tonight" but yeah, I don't think Aurealscum implies you scum at all.

Ya my thought is they are saying 1 thing, doing the opposite.
Claim they wanna use their role without disruption by targeting roles that dont have NAs but trying to use it as a vanillizer in practice by targeting Anix over claimed millers.

[AniX]

Vote Skygazer

Currently, I have completed or am currently attempting 24 hours on the following people:
DKoba: August 2nd, 3:09pm to August 5th, 6:34pm
DragonEater: August 5th, 6:34pm to August 11th, 3:53pm
STD: August 11th, 3:53pm to August 12th, 4:16pm
Skygazer: August 12th, 4:16pm to August 13th, around 4-5pm

[Bingle]

Quick, everyone vote skygazer to end the day so AniX can't track anyone.

[DragonEater70]

Your claim was not "Not claiming minutia" it was "Not claiming most of what the role does". Having a complicated role doesn't mean you don't have to claim all of it in massclaim, and to argue otherwise is just disingenuous.

I'll be honest, I can't bring myself to read that wallpost (even though I made a bigger

wallpost myself a few pages ago), but I actually agree that Aureal's claim was extremely unclear on what he role did and what/why she did WRT to neighborizing AniX.
I was also gonna scumcase her for it but I think it's better to wait for the full detailed claim first and maybe that will clear all misunderstandings.

I also have another scumcase prepared on another player but this game is soooo slow and there's no fucking momentum and I feel I'd rather wait until people are actually here before I post it.