Mini Normal 2305 | GAME OVER

[Bingle]

VOTE: Bingle missed u friend <3

these are both good wagons

tweet i'm paranoid that you've charmed me and pocketed me and is the deepscum

??? but I'm already the deepscum

I subbed into this game specifically to play with you, and you immediately betrayal me like this. You really are just the worst.

[Bingle]

novice mason sounds made up because it's not really a role i have ever seen. you're the one who mentioned novice mason, so I'm not sure why it's me who jumped to any conclusions?
and i don't understand what other motivation you're looking for here, other than getting out of poe?

This is probably town, fwiw. Scummonkee is more likely to realize that if bob is lying about there being a novice mason the claimed masons would presumably just say that. Bob is probably telling the truth, which doesn’t really make him town. Rolecop definitely makes sense as a scum role in a three mason setup, and assuming the masons aren’t the novices in question that’s what it sounds like.

[Bingle]

Could someone link the timing of my slots sus wagon hopping sos I can evaluate my wagon?

[Bingle]

novice mason sounds made up because it's not really a role i have ever seen. you're the one who mentioned novice mason, so I'm not sure why it's me who jumped to any conclusions?
and i don't understand what other motivation you're looking for here, other than getting out of poe?

I never mention the 3rd mason was novice. The closest thing you have from be is info a crumb that was left slight vague to avoid givign scum to much info shoudl they spot it.

Just because you have never played with one doesnt cut it as there is no way your not experienced to know the full range of roles that can be in normals plus the gattings. Ive seen triple masons, 2 mason plus back up and 2 masons plus novice. suprised you havnt

This entire line of questioning is boring. There is no scum motivation for bob to be lying about whether there’s a third mason, because it’s an incredibly easy to catch lie. It would be literal suicide.

[Bingle]

Though tell me bingle why in your view would anything other than a town player even mention it? And why now?

Also in set up like this scum would prob have one pr which means in your view i can still catch it if i was a town rolecop.

Why wouldn’t they mention it? If you’re a scum rolecop who found a third mason, you can just kill the outed masons instead of the novice and look perfectly alright for a while. You don’t really look bad for claiming. You’re also not wrong in that if town you’re probably going to be a nk at some point, so…

[Bingle]

Pretend that wasn’t borked.

[Bingle]

Personaly i think the 3 masons should choose the order of executions. What ever they pick they have my vote

Eh. Sheep the IC leads to town losses a lot ime, because the rest of the players stop caring and the ics just get killed. It’s a pretty good way of ensuring none of your players are engaged in the late game leading to an easy scum XLO.

[Bingle]

It’s not that the ics shouldn’t weigh in, it’s that going “oh, the worst can solve the game for us” leaves us in a pretty pickle when the worst eats a bullet.

[Bingle]

I’m ambivalent, tbh. The third being outed isn’t really risky (scum could maybe shoot them over the other masons) but also all three of you, worst, elements would have to die to risk them.

If we’re outing the third you should be the one to do it.

[Bingle]

I think it’s funny that I’m the replacement and STD is doing catch-up walls. Keep on keeping on, though, because the summary is useful to me until I get around to actually reading.

[Bingle]

they talked about mason theory for a bit & how to go about distancing. i can go dig up why they decided to do that if it'll help? i probably would have done it differently but like. yes, sometimes people who rand mason lean into their scum toolkit to decide how to distance. honestly, el would be more helpful than me.

where are your reads at hem?

You and Elements are masons, and can be confirmed through PoE before ELO.
karmadog has been locktowned for day 1 and greeting's execution.
geraintm has been townread for hallucinating a gamestate and solving from the gamestate. I'm betting on geraintm not having this in his scum arsenal.
Morning Tweet has been townread for not hammering snivy when she could have collected the towncred, and Snivy self-hammering soon after.

My PoE is {STD, bob3141, furtiveglance}. I'm considering now that scum could have bussed.

furtive's slot is sus for abandoning Greeting's wagon when it became too hot — despite having both Greeting and clidd as top suspects. Although he came back to it once Snivy got enough heat.
Emperor's slot was wildly disinterested in solving the game. bob is meh, i haven't had the reason to townread him yet.

This sounds more like game state summary than consensus. If’n it wouldn’t be a bother could someone confirm that this is/isn’t thread consensus and share relevant lynx?

[Bingle]

Game state summary than reads.

[Bingle]

bro if you think my reads are game state summary then that's great.

That's not what I mean. I haven't read the game, so I don't know if they are or are not, in fact, game state summary. I'm asking the rest of the lonely people (where do they all come from?) whether they agree with what you said because it sounded to me like you were framing it as public belief as opposed to personal belief. There was a certain level of disconnect from the reads that felt weird if they were personal, given that they were all written in the passive voice.

[Bingle]

But the 3rd mason is my first impression town read. MT

This makes me feel vaguely better about youtown wanting to sheep masons, but I still think it's a bad idea from an eggs in one basket perspective. Not sure if it would be antiscum indicative though.

[Bingle]

I'm finding clidd pretty suspicious right now

I interpreted this as agreeing with HEM that Ele distancing clidd was some kind of contradiction

What does scum stand to gain with that post? Like... there's no way they get a mason killed atp? I think the mason doubt is probably either town indicative or NAI, scum would be too worried about being seen pushing a mason.

[Bingle]

furtive's slot is sus for abandoning Greeting's wagon when it became too hot — despite having both Greeting and clidd as top suspects. Although he came back to it once Snivy got enough heat.

What do you mean by "Getting too hot" here? Because looking at the posts around furtive's clidd vote I don't see any significant uptick in greeting pressure. I see a significant uptick in furtive pressure, but not in greeting pressure.

[Bingle]

When you're town you're in a unique position to know your range and limits, what you're capable of in the game and what you have done that you wouldn't have done as the baddies. Capitalise on it and make it clear enough what the differences are that it can be followed by the thread at large

IMO having this trait is the definition of "Being bad at scum." :shrugs:

[Bingle]

the laws of the mafiascum universe say "friends and enemies is a balanced open setup but a scumsided closed setup"

I would say that this isn't necessarily true. Most opens are scumsided as closeds, but there is very little counterplay to 3 masons. Claiming any significant amount of power as scum isn't believable with three masons in the setup and cc's just aren't a thing. I also don't think this setup was bad from a balance perspective. I think it was not the kind of setup I enjoy, but I also don't usually play normals because that's true of a lot of normals.

[Bingle]

Not only this, but the counter play offered to scum by things like claiming that usually benefits scum in opens just isn’t available here. Scum can claim net 0 roles, but anything with a decent amount of power is just incredibly unbelievable in a setup with 3 masons. Protection is basically out the window, investigation innately has the potential for 5 clears which is anbsurd in a mini, killing roles anre confirmable annd thus shit fake claims, etc. And there’s no chance of winning a 1v1 with the masons.

[Bingle]

*benefits scum in closeds.