Mini 2308 | Blood over Utopia | Utopia fell.

[Flavor Leaf]

On top of that, it feels like Meow’s push on Devil for the way they town read me is the same thing Meow did in regards to Marci, except I feel Devil’s reasonings is better than Meowmeow.

[camelCasedSnivy]

If we are torturing Leaf then I'm probably just going to sheep them

[Aureal]

So yeah, if you're town and you're reading FL town too, I don't know how you're going to argue that it's not still good for gamestate to know for sure. In my eyes anyone who starts to argue against it is someone to watch closely.

I wouldn't have been advocating for using Sacrifice on FL here either. Because I'm townreading him. That whole discussion was not something I ever agreed with so there's nothing for him to 'wiggle out of' as far as I'm concerned. Setting up chains of flips based on having a wrong read isn't a healthy state for town.

What I want to know here is: who is actually scumreading FL? I think that's the important factor here. Please raise your hand if you support this because

you

actually don't trust Flavor Leaf rather than because of some perceived sentiment that other people don't so may as well go along with it because we were gonna use sacrifice anyway or something.

[Flavor Leaf]

Stop pocket

[Flavor Leaf]

WIFOMing myself between Merlyn and Aureal, how much time we have left?

[Aureal]

What are your pie in the sky reasons for sr'ing me, Aureal? I kind of have my own guess (meta related) but I might be off base

Well, first you agreed with me when I commented on the weather thing from the first post flavor. I... Well that was more of a moment of "ha ha I'll look so insightful if this actually DOES mean something!!" than actually thinking it would mean something. You seemed fairly serious in your agreement though, which made me feel rather weird about your reaction. In Scarfolk I made a read for a reason that I didn't actually have a lot of confidence in because I wanted to cover for a PR read and scum picked it up to amplify it, so that kinda gave me some of the same vibes.

Eventually I started liking your takes more and I can't quite remember anything specific about why, but I was starting to get tired of my vote on you. I had thought about your theory about how scum might get funds determined by what action we take, and decided it was likely a take from town because scum wouldn't TMI giving us ideas like that if it does actually work that way. I didn't even remember it came from you, I had to go back and look for who had said it and it turned out it was you (that was where I started bringing up more reads because I was reading back and forming them a little more).

Now I'm second-guessing that you wouldn't TMI that, because the new stuff we got is really actually giving me doubts about what's going on here. Torture is so obviously the 'right' thing to do here, mechanics-wise. Having to add 'mechanics-wise' to that sentence should give you pause. I'm feeling like it's a lot more likely the setup does operate by funding insurgents based on which action we take and that is clearly a prime choice. We may be operating on Undertale principles here. The game we see makes us want to do what the rules make us think is optimal, but actually we're supposed to be applying real-world morality.

[Aureal]

Man, that 24 hours where I felt like I understood Flavor Leaf sure was nice.

I think it's shady as fuck that I say "ok let's do resolve this and do it all today" and then see you get cold feet and then pre-flip six different slots

If I'm scum I don't need to do shit here if you Infinity and Marci are town because you're already planning to flip the three of you by Day 3. Scum!me literally just sits here and does nothing and my hands are clean. I gain literally nothing as scum by inserting myself into this cluster fuck and putting forward a plan to get more info today instead of waiting until Day 3.

No.

We SPECIFICALLY don’t do it all today.

That’s like the whole thing.

And if you are scum with Marci, this is absolutely incorrect that you get nothing.

I gain absolutely nothing from playing like chaotic toxic shit and isn’t stopping you from voting this way

Didn't you think Roden was TMIing Marci as town with his response though?

I feel like things are moving too fast and communication is suffering as a result.

I'm still townreading both of you, so I'm not going to support FL being the target here. I think it's best used on a scummier slot. (Not that I don't have any flavor-related concerns about it. But I know nobody is going to care about that because mechanics.)

Who?

Who are the scummier slots? RCE and marci for sure... uh...

ugh who the hell else is in this game...

Cakez I guess? Haven't had that much of a read on him, he feels sorta lost like I have been, like we both were in the other game we played so I've kinda been townleaning there, but not really strongly. A few things have felt off.

*checks playerlist* Damn, basically everyone else has been a townread too. Merlyn I suppose, my read on her has been very up and down and for rather pie-in-the-sky reasons. Snivy and Enchant are weaker townreads.

There isn’t a lot from quote to quote about your view on Marci so I don’t get how you go from the thought “X slot could just be townspewing Y slot” to “Y slot is just one of the scummier slots”

Also the lack of follow up on roden makes it seem like a throwaway take but feels like that’s because it just didn’t gain traction.

Huh? I haven't said anything about anyone being townspewed, that was FL's reasoning which I was echoing back to him because he seemed to have gotten too in the moment to remember it and chaos was ensuing. They got it sorted right around then, so what am I supposed to follow up on?

[Deal With The Devil]

So yeah, if you're town and you're reading FL town too, I don't know how you're going to argue that it's not still good for gamestate to know for sure. In my eyes anyone who starts to argue against it is someone to watch closely.

I wouldn't have been advocating for using Sacrifice on FL here either. Because I'm townreading him. That whole discussion was not something I ever agreed with so there's nothing for him to 'wiggle out of' as far as I'm concerned. Setting up chains of flips based on having a wrong read isn't a healthy state for town.

What I want to know here is: who is actually scumreading FL? I think that's the important factor here. Please raise your hand if you support this because

you

actually don't trust Flavor Leaf rather than because of some perceived sentiment that other people don't so may as well go along with it because we were gonna use sacrifice anyway or something.

Good post.
Though we are townreading FL, I personally would not be opposed to torturing him if others feel the town as a whole would benefit from knowing his alignment (I do not know what Drew thinks of that yet). However, you raise a very good point: who is actually scumreading FL?
I think RCE would be a decent target if we don't do FL, he doesn't seem to be all that townread and I find him hard to read this game. Though to be honest, I find a lot of slots hard to read this game, probably because I'm burnt out from rolling town 14 times in a row lol.

- Alianna

[Deal With The Devil]

What are your pie in the sky reasons for sr'ing me, Aureal? I kind of have my own guess (meta related) but I might be off base

Well, first you agreed with me when I commented on the weather thing from the first post flavor. I... Well that was more of a moment of "ha ha I'll look so insightful if this actually DOES mean something!!" than actually thinking it would mean something. You seemed fairly serious in your agreement though, which made me feel rather weird about your reaction. In Scarfolk I made a read for a reason that I didn't actually have a lot of confidence in because I wanted to cover for a PR read and scum picked it up to amplify it, so that kinda gave me some of the same vibes.

Eventually I started liking your takes more and I can't quite remember anything specific about why, but I was starting to get tired of my vote on you. I had thought about your theory about how scum might get funds determined by what action we take, and decided it was likely a take from town because scum wouldn't TMI giving us ideas like that if it does actually work that way. I didn't even remember it came from you, I had to go back and look for who had said it and it turned out it was you (that was where I started bringing up more reads because I was reading back and forming them a little more).

Scum potentially getting money from our projects is in the rules.

Now I'm second-guessing that you wouldn't TMI that, because the new stuff we got is really actually giving me doubts about what's going on here. Torture is so obviously the 'right' thing to do here, mechanics-wise. Having to add 'mechanics-wise' to that sentence should give you pause. I'm feeling like it's a lot more likely the setup does operate by funding insurgents based on which action we take and that is clearly a prime choice. We may be operating on Undertale principles here. The game we see makes us want to do what the rules make us think is optimal, but actually we're supposed to be applying real-world morality.

This is...hmm. Interesting. I like that theory. Perhaps scum get more money when we do morally questionable stuff?

- Alianna

[Hu Tao]

HURT: torture

[Enchant]

So yeah, if you're town and you're reading FL town too, I don't know how you're going to argue that it's not still good for gamestate to know for sure. In my eyes anyone who starts to argue against it is someone to watch closely.

I wouldn't have been advocating for using Sacrifice on FL here either. Because I'm townreading him. That whole discussion was not something I ever agreed with so there's nothing for him to 'wiggle out of' as far as I'm concerned. Setting up chains of flips based on having a wrong read isn't a healthy state for town.

What I want to know here is: who is actually scumreading FL? I think that's the important factor here. Please raise your hand if you support this because

you

actually don't trust Flavor Leaf rather than because of some perceived sentiment that other people don't so may as well go along with it because we were gonna use sacrifice anyway or something.

Should i write if i raised my hand of not.

[Enchant]

Torture works best when used on town.

Guilties unreliable.
Innocents reliable.

That's it.

[RCEnigma]

Man, that 24 hours where I felt like I understood Flavor Leaf sure was nice.

I think it's shady as fuck that I say "ok let's do resolve this and do it all today" and then see you get cold feet and then pre-flip six different slots

If I'm scum I don't need to do shit here if you Infinity and Marci are town because you're already planning to flip the three of you by Day 3. Scum!me literally just sits here and does nothing and my hands are clean. I gain literally nothing as scum by inserting myself into this cluster fuck and putting forward a plan to get more info today instead of waiting until Day 3.

No.

We SPECIFICALLY don’t do it all today.

That’s like the whole thing.

And if you are scum with Marci, this is absolutely incorrect that you get nothing.

I gain absolutely nothing from playing like chaotic toxic shit and isn’t stopping you from voting this way

Didn't you think Roden was TMIing Marci as town with his response though?

I feel like things are moving too fast and communication is suffering as a result.

I'm still townreading both of you, so I'm not going to support FL being the target here. I think it's best used on a scummier slot. (Not that I don't have any flavor-related concerns about it. But I know nobody is going to care about that because mechanics.)

Who?

Who are the scummier slots? RCE and marci for sure... uh...

ugh who the hell else is in this game...

Cakez I guess? Haven't had that much of a read on him, he feels sorta lost like I have been, like we both were in the other game we played so I've kinda been townleaning there, but not really strongly. A few things have felt off.

*checks playerlist* Damn, basically everyone else has been a townread too. Merlyn I suppose, my read on her has been very up and down and for rather pie-in-the-sky reasons. Snivy and Enchant are weaker townreads.

There isn’t a lot from quote to quote about your view on Marci so I don’t get how you go from the thought “X slot could just be townspewing Y slot” to “Y slot is just one of the scummier slots”

Also the lack of follow up on roden makes it seem like a throwaway take but feels like that’s because it just didn’t gain traction.

Huh? I haven't said anything about anyone being townspewed, that was FL's reasoning which I was echoing back to him because he seemed to have gotten too in the moment to remember it and chaos was ensuing. They got it sorted right around then, so what am I supposed to follow up on?

That….makes a lot more sense then. I saw the post and it looked like you were asking for FLs take on it and then it just kind of hung there.

Fair enough.

[meowmeow]

In hindsight, this actually makes me scum read Meow harder considering I don’t believe I was ever making personality reasons for the reasons I was scum reading Marci, it was agenda related reasonings, and Meow’s defenses to Marci was ‘that’s just the way Marci is’

On top of that, secret alts don’t really get to use meta and expect it to be taken as a reason.

I believe Meow was blanket defending Marci, even if Marci ends up being town here.

I can’t say for sure about the rest, but I am highly feeling Meow/Aureal scum team.

uh, are secret alts some sort of thing that's beneath you now? that's new for you. i think what i was saying about marci is like incredibly easily verifiable if you look at any of her games which are publicly available, and i don't think my read of marci vs what drew said about you share like... any similarities at all, beyond the involvement of a meta read. really not a fan of this push from fl

asking in advance, if we torture you and it fails, will you accept dying or will you try to squirm out of it?

again, it's not really the point of this alt, so if it's something people actually care about, my main account is ausuka.

[meowmeow]

So yeah, if you're town and you're reading FL town too, I don't know how you're going to argue that it's not still good for gamestate to know for sure. In my eyes anyone who starts to argue against it is someone to watch closely.

I wouldn't have been advocating for using Sacrifice on FL here either. Because I'm townreading him. That whole discussion was not something I ever agreed with so there's nothing for him to 'wiggle out of' as far as I'm concerned. Setting up chains of flips based on having a wrong read isn't a healthy state for town.

What I want to know here is: who is actually scumreading FL? I think that's the important factor here. Please raise your hand if you support this because

you

actually don't trust Flavor Leaf rather than because of some perceived sentiment that other people don't so may as well go along with it because we were gonna use sacrifice anyway or something.

raises hand

[marcistar]

please sacrifice me guys xoxo

[Flavor Leaf]

Secret alts are fine, just for meta reasons it’s hard to go along with them.

Interesting, though.

[Flavor Leaf]

I would say that I’m not that confident at all with my solve, and I’m more interested in and pursuing it, seeing if it’s something I could be onto.

It’s a weird situation because I feel like I was town reading a lot of the people a little while ago, but i feel very connected to the overall playerlist, like in a way, i feel each of my reads on each slot has developed pretty nicely.

[Flavor Leaf]

I might accept it.

I get it in the scenario that it gives a fake guilty, it’s probably just best all around to go through. Paranoia would be deadly this game with it.

[Flavor Leaf]

That makes a lot of sense, though. I felt a different type of energy coming from Meowmeow.

One that only comes with a certain type of familiarity.

[Flavor Leaf]

I have no idea what it does for my range, but definitely not out of your scum range.

I think overtime, I’ll be able to town read Meowmeow correctly if they’re town.

To be fair, most of my last few pages, and my whole pink tier push has really been to solve Meowmeow anyways.

[Flavor Leaf]

What a reveal, though.

The craftsmanship and adventure of it all

[Flavor Leaf]

What I will say, if Aureal, Meow, and I are all town, and Aureal is able to successfully read that as T/T, their energy reads are very strong. Which makes sense since I see them more as an emotionally sensitive, more in the sensitivity as a pro trait kinda way.

I’ll sit on it

[biancospino]

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[biancospino]

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