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[skitter30]

Someone obviousky told ct what to claim if he's scum

Also actually being 1s instead of 2s lends credence to town-peta, the world where he comes in changing the claim is bizarre as scum

Pedit gonna be honest i'm still not following what ur saying

Pedit to distract from obvious scum in t3 and make me viable instead

It's less abt the nk and more abt why pooky os starting a 1v1 with me now

[bloodhail]

medeia - i have to ask - you have suggested that the interactions between chicago and T3 could have been a distancing routine. you also mentioned previous experience with chicago in a newbie game where he was mafia. i just went to check, and how he treated his partner there was

completely unlike

how he treated T3 this game. I have to ask - why do you think that would possibly be partnered? while it's possible he'd try to change things, since he got caught out on his play around his partner that game (i'm assuming - haven't confirmed), it's generally incredibly rare for players to do something like a complete 180 in their tactics as scum. most players don't evolve that fast, people's minds don't work that way. for the most part people's tendencies are very slow to change.

chicagotypewriter's approach to the readslist seemed very different from his town games like the focus on reevaluating rvs read and other thoughts being withheld and such seemed unnatural for him

and i was looking specifically for if they were potentially partnered and not fully considering how chicagotypewriter had previously approached partners, though i do not know if the conclusion would have been all that different as it being possible felt more likely than scum!pooky taking path of most resistance i guess

okay, i get the stuff about seeming different, not much i can do there unfortunately

hat do you mean by 'path of most resistance' though?

[skitter30]

I never at any point this game thought pooky was actually solving

Probably sums up my issue with him

Or even like cared abt the outcome of any of the flips

Like if he's town he does have that vibe early on but usually at some point he switches to solving/winning/need to get it right mode
(And that's when i can start to townrwad him)

He never did that here

okay - that's a little more interesting to me than "pooky scum because wrong" - that type of argument is unpersuasive to me because it gets said on me and it pisses me off cuz im not that good. idk, i probably need to reread him

Idk if i ever articulated it this way but when i keep saying he feels off this is what i mean

He's never tried to solve
And i never felt like he cared abt the outcome of anything

Like yeah + never having any correct reads
But i never got the sense he cared that he's been so wrong either

[medeia]

Someone obviousky told ct what to claim if he's scum

Also actually being 1s instead of 2s lends credence to town-peta, the world where he comes in changing the claim is bizarre as scum

Pedit gonna be honest i'm still not following what ur saying

Pedit to distract from obvious scum in t3 and make me viable instead

It's less abt the nk and more abt why pooky os starting a 1v1 with me now

which could have been any of you, and it's like, idk makes me think about scum!bloodhail doing it to say was now changing it to bait nightkill in case partner eliminate and tada! i am actually two-shot

but i can feel everyone yelling at me for considering low probability things inspired by things from 60 pages ago that bloodhail may have been unlikely to have even read and yeah

sorry will try again in a sec

oh yeah i knew that thought you were saying reason re:this now i understand

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

skitter if you're town the only solution possible from my POV is blood hail/t3

[skitter30]

Why again?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

and i guess the only way for either of us to trust each other at this point in the game is agree to blindly sheep medeia whatever she decides to do

[skitter30]

Oh i misread that

Yes
It's the exact same logic i'm using to come up to scum-you

[medeia]

hat do you mean by 'path of most resistance' though?

if chicagotypewriter was town then skitter or pooky would have to be a scums with t3 or eachother, and skitter seemed likely town to me so scum!pooky would have had to have been trying for complicated endgame instead of kill me eliminate you

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Why again?

if i'm town and you're town and medeia is town then its t3 and ct


medeia with CT/T3 doesnt make sense because she's spent this entire f5 trying to keep us from voting each other

[medeia]

and i guess the only way for either of us to trust each other at this point in the game is agree to blindly sheep medeia whatever she decides to do

mm

[skitter30]

Oh i misread that

Yes
It's the exact same logic i'm using to come up to scum-you

Like this is the whole logix chain of

If medeia town
And ct/t3 not partnered
Scum pooky

I don't think you ever applied it in reverse till now

[medeia]

okay reexplaining thing for skitter

so situation was medeia/pooky/skitter/t3/chicagotypewriter/brassherald

if {pooky, skitter} or {pooky, t3} or {skitter, t3}

then nightkill medeia, eliminate chicagotypewriter

seems like it is clear course of action because game, outside of skitter, does not believe in possible town!chicagotypewriter worlds in this situation

and all of the counterpoints i can think of for town!chicagotypewriter in this situation would be likely ineffective, and! it's not like chicagotypewriter would be expected to defend self well anyway

which if bloodhail is town is inherently wrong and he is correct that my overweighing this is what's messing everything up and there is other reasoning for (someone simply counting on me misvoting and such)

[bloodhail]

the question i have to ask you is - why are you alive? since random nurse was eliminated, scum have had free reign over the nightkills. If you are alive in ELO, there are two possibilities - scum are either hoping to make you misvote, or they are hoping to get you voted out so they can win. The latter is clearly not the case - i don't think anyone to this point had seriously entertained the possibility of voting you. T3 just did but i think that came out of literally nowhere.

so, you are here because scum are counting on you to vote wrong. that should tell you, at a minimum, that one of your reads is wrong. if pooky/skitter are TvT and scum were hoping to leave them alive so they would tunnel each other (and from your POV i think this is a reasonable concern to have), why does a chicago/T3 team leave you alive, and not brassherald? brass was very open about scumreading pooky, this game is a free win for that team if they simply NK you and let him vote pooky. i don't think that scumteam ever leaves you alive here. and i desperately need you to consider that.

i think latter would almost never be the case, like if t3/chicagotypewriter they had no actual plan for winning the game and were just hoping town would lose it, and if skitter or pooky is a scums they'd just be betting against me solving it and trying to get me voted out and in doing so just giving me the solve would be ????????? like i may be generally useless but i cannot imagine either of them thinking pushing me would be best course of action or, like, pleasant i guess

okay so reasons i can think of that i am alive

could be that i am pocketed by skitter like you say

could also be that someone wanted me to think this and play towards my natural inclination for paranoia (very unlikely from t3 or chicagotypewriter but possible for pooky)

could be that the mechanical implications of killing me / confirming i am town and such would have implicated chicagotypewriter (you)

which like, impossible from your perspective but yeah

could also be to give impression of such, but that just seems like questionable course of action

like skitter was the only one generally considering 3 town pr world so would probably have killed her if playing towards this goal while leaving me alive?

but again, nightkill analysis +/

which like, you say chicagotypewriter never leaves me alive but the mechanical implications thing seems very possible to me

i'm not, like, really sure they would care about the mechanical implications, honestly

(and personally - a checker is such a neutral value role that i have not considered it to be a plus in town's favor at all since i joined this game. it barely does anything. the bulletproof existing alongside the jailkeeper is actually a

negative

to town, if anything, because it creates ambiguity when a nightkill is blocked and prevents the town from having any true information. that was likely the design intent and if anything the checker might be compensation for that.

but even if they did - let's entertain that for a moment. chicago going down, if scum, does not lose scum the game. the scum team can still win it in f3. so i don't think a team with CT on it fears him getting outed by your dying and leaves you alive even if you have the solve.

a t3/chicago team that has been excessively distancing since page 1 is probably

happy

with chicago being seen as

de facto

outed, because it would set t3 up very, very well to endgame

but you're also kind of having it both ways with your logic - you're thinking scum could have been doing elaborate distancing from early on but then made nightkills with very little care or thought, and i don't really think those ideas fit together

[skitter30]

Iirc i was leaning towards town-ct eod yesterday

But yeah i see ur point

Honestly like i said before the night kills are bizarrw enuf that i don't think we're going to easily hit on the right reason

So i am discounting

[skitter30]

Right what peta said too

[bloodhail]

hat do you mean by 'path of most resistance' though?

if chicagotypewriter was town then skitter or pooky would have to be a scums with t3 or eachother, and skitter seemed likely town to me so scum!pooky would have had to have been trying for complicated endgame instead of kill me eliminate you

is it that complicated? brass fosed him, sheep also had at one point although the read had cooled off. taking out brass who could be against him seems path of least resistance enough, even if brass was wrong on CT. and, like, you nearly

did

eliminate chicagotypewriter so i don't see how it's complicated at all

[skitter30]

Honestly your slot makes fhe most sense making these nks

Idk who lets him tho

[skitter30]

Ok i have like 8 hours
Ig i should just be doing it at this point

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

gl

[skitter30]

I think town loses
But probablh better thru action than inaction

Again so weird that you've been asking for this 1v1 this whole elo

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

ok i guess we lose together then if we're town together

I think you played p well fwiw if you're town and it's just a game and if we can't get there we can't get there.

I personally don't think you're town either and that's on me if you are

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

the reason I want the 1v1 and you to vote me is p simple

(1) i think you're mafia
(2) I'm too much a chicken to vote you

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

it is rather convenient that you've been saying I'm mafia the entire game so it's kind of easy for me to punt to you and try to say it's your fault if we're t-t

but really it's just me lying to myself I guess

[skitter30]

Medeia you good with this?

-
And yeah sorey if i'm wrong / spent the game tunneling / lose this

But i think this is the best conclusion I'm coming to