Veiled Committee Mafia: List Mods Edition [game over]

[Cook]

i'm fine with bingle's plan for my night action

can't see how it could make things worse for koba

koba are you okay with it

[Cook]

ooh pagetop

[ofrhz]

I feel like I'm talking to a wall here. -_-

I am not going to use a roleblock even if I somehow have it available, I am going to use a regular neighborhood- on a non-Amway person so they can actually receive it- because I don't want to recruit any more people at this point since that limits Theta's investigation pool.

A message is even stupider- there's obviously no way of telling whether that came from me or from any of the other people with a recruit.

It's like Bingle doesn't even WANT my action to be confirmable.

Hood me! I want to talk to someone

[ofrhz]

I'd also be willing to hear cases for who you'd like to see doused

[ofrhz]

Spoiler: Amway summary

Aureal's Amway role:

1. Use a sales pitch to create a hood. Up to two neighborhoods a day can be created. (1623, 2303)
Specifically, the process to open a hood is:

• quote someone to target them
  
• write a sales pitch phrase in the post
  
• if they respond, a hood is created. (1881)

**note: the sales pitch does not have to be in the game thread. So scum can give each other Amway amongst themselves** (2519, 2524)

2. In the hood, the recruiter can bring the hooded person into the MLM and the recruitee would get a copy of all Amway abilities, including ability to hood and recruit people (Aureal - 1564)

3. Once recruited into Amway, original night actions can't be used unless you leave Amway, which costs the leaver's vote the next day. Day actions, passive attributes, and roles are otherwise retained. (1623)

4. People in Amway can continue to recruit after Aureal is dead, and dead Amway still count towards number of recruits (2382)

5. xyzzy will answer whether there's enough recruits to perform an action. The # of recruits is determined at the start of night (2535)

Abilities unlocked:

(an ability can be used once a night - Aureal 2872)

Recruit 1 to send a message
3 to neighborhood
6 to roleblock and open a neighborhood and autorecruit (same target)
10 to vig and recruit -

is this the same target

?

* Neighborhood creation/recruitment should fail if targeting another Amway (2838, 2845). This could be used to detect unknown Amway if scum secretly Amway themselves .

List of hoods and recruits:

1. Aureal hooded Anix (per 1564), who hasn't accepted recruitment
2. Aureal hooded KatyKimFanClub, who accepted recruitment (2230, rationale is in 2219)
3. KatyKimFanClub hooded Theta Alpine, who accepted recruitment (2261, 2316)
4. KatyKimFanClub hooded Ircher, who hasn't accepted recruitment (2279, 2835, 2925)
5. Theta Alpine tried to hood Skygazer, who accepted recruitment (2360, 2938)
6. Theta Alpine hooded Bingle, who accepted recruitment into Amway (but recruitment should fail due to Bingle's role) (2359, 2364)
7. Bingle pitched to DragonEater70 to demonstrate that he can't hood others (2538? or maybe 2536?)
8. Skygazer will recruit Ircher
9. Ircher will recruit Save the Dragons

* some of the linked posts should have recruitment phrases

Special interactions:

Bingle - can't recruit anyone else to Amway, can be neighborized, can accept recruitment to Amway but probably doesn't count as a recruit in terms of total recruit numbers (Aureal - 1564)
Theta Alpine - with the desperate modifier, she can use neighborhood ability like a cop check

[DkKoba]

i'm fine with bingle's plan for my night action

can't see how it could make things worse for koba

koba are you okay with it

No I don't want to feed this role

[Skygazer]

Yes, the hood was established. I haven't done anything with the invite yet.

I have a product that has helped so many people achieve their goals.

[Skygazer]

here's a thought

VOTE: kkfc

[Skygazer]

eh nvm i thought other people were still voting him

VOTE: cook

[Ircher]

Yes, the hood was established. I haven't done anything with the invite yet.

I have a product that has helped so many people achieve their goals.

You have my attention.

[Bingle]

I feel like I'm talking to a wall here. -_-

I am not going to use a roleblock even if I somehow have it available, I am going to use a regular neighborhood- on a non-Amway person so they can actually receive it- because I don't want to recruit any more people at this point since that limits Theta's investigation pool.

A message is even stupider- there's obviously no way of telling whether that came from me or from any of the other people with a recruit.

It's like Bingle doesn't even WANT my action to be confirmable.

A message is confirmable if we make every amway send them, they just have to include their name. A roleblock stopping said message also is confirmable, because said message would not appear. A neighborize only allows you to potentially spread your role unchecked, which is the whole point of forcing accountable actions.

[Political Clout]

I'm rereading!

[Political Clout]

I should be settled in tomorrow. So that should be that

[camelCasedSnivy]

ofrhz is probably town too

[Aureal]

Messages are less accountable in the case of Amway having been spread secretly. And I have little hope that we're going to have things all wrapped up nicely enough to consider that possibility minimized.

Imagine I am scum with Ircher, who will likely end day with neighborhoods available still and no ability to message if we have Sky nab a second recruit rather than him doing it. What's to stop him from hitting a scum partner with Amway secretly then I get a roleblock and he sends a message supposedly from me?

Using messages instead of neighborhoods is pointless and flawed because as long as we're all agreed for now not to spread Amway past the point of Theta getting a neighborhood action, it would take bad faith on both parties' ends for it to be spread through a night action neighborhood. And if there's bad faith on both sides, they can just be lying and saying it was just a message.

A neighborhood is a superior choice because it gives easy feedback to both parties and it can't possibly have originated from somewhere else. It has potential fringe benefits of possibly helping detect that Amway has been spread to an unexpected slot that a message doesn't.

[DkKoba]

Holy shit do u ever stop posting about your role

[DkKoba]

back to wanting to policy aureal to ensure we dont get screwed by a role that is meant to get trusted to help scum win

VOTE: aureal

[DkKoba]

If they choose to actually play mafia and not Amway we can reconsider

[Aureal]

Maybe if Bingle would stop putting out bad takes, I wouldn't feel like my most important task is correcting them!

Who do you see actually "playing Mafia" at this point as opposed to just going "ugh let's kill someone!"?

[Bingle]

i'm fine with bingle's plan for my night action

can't see how it could make things worse for koba

koba are you okay with it

No I don't want to feed this role

How is giving you a random neg utility modifer for accountability “feeding” a role?

[camelCasedSnivy]

it could be anything like doomed for example

[Cook]

it could be anything like doomed for example

oh yeah i guess it could be

better to not risk it then?

[Ircher]

Maybe if Bingle would stop putting out bad takes, I wouldn't feel like my most important task is correcting them!

Who do you see actually "playing Mafia" at this point as opposed to just going "ugh let's kill someone!"?

Let's just kill Cook.

[Meuh]

Maybe if Bingle would stop putting out bad takes, I wouldn't feel like my most important task is correcting them!

Who do you see actually "playing Mafia" at this point as opposed to just going "ugh let's kill someone!"?

Let's just kill Cook.

Let's kill Klick? Please?

[Meuh]

2. I get that you can't read everything, but out of the things you read, what made you scumread RN in particular?

I'm comparing RN here to RN in the game I've played with him that just ended (viewtopic.php?sid=&f=83&t=91199&user_select%5B%5D=37068)
RN is a LOT more self-assured there, and holds stronger beliefs. Now this may be partially an activity thing (he seems to have been busier during this game than in the one I'm referencing, so he'd have less of a grasp on the game) but I don't think it justifies a gap this big. The only thing he takes a strong stance on and shows confidence in is activity not being indicative of alignment, which is always a really easy point to make and specifically serves the purpose of defending himself here. The idea that the game doesn't "start" for him until day 2 and he has a hard time engaging on day 1 doesn't line up with him extensively engaging on day 1 in that other game. The fact he leans on this as extra justification (rather than just being busy) reeks in my eyes. He also just has out there takes and isn't afraid to push them in that game. He did a bunch of work to put pressure on the most widely townread player there, entered conflict a bunch (in a way a lot less passive than here, the only time he gets aggressive at all is when saying that activity is NAI)
A lot of RN's commentary in this game also seems to be NAI beliefs that he holds more broadly. The aforementioned "activity is NAI", his thoughts on massclaiming, points like these:

I don't think I agree with "this trait Town, this trait Scum." Game's more complex than that.

Also, I touched on this already but it feels like his posting is made with the purpose of appealing to others. This isn't always scum indicative (I do it as town sometimes when I wanna get read accurately) but I think for RN it is. In the other game, even under pressure, his posts were never made with the intent to make himself just look good. In the other game he's having independent ideas brought to the table and his posting is with the motivation for himself to solve the game and push his ideas forward. Here he just gets through the chore of making some very inoffensive comments on some posts and moves on from there. He's not posting for himself, and that probably just makes him scum.