Veiled Committee Mafia: List Mods Edition [game over]

[Skygazer]

It's pretty fair that people find me scummy though, I definitely made the conscious decision to not try to scumhunt this game given my role.

why would your role make you wanna avoid scumhunting?

[DragonEater70]

i find it odd you dropped the readslist thing and are actively pushing reasoning.

My last readslist was 2021. The list still holds, aside from the Ircher tier. Ircher should be up with DragonEater70, and Random Nurse bumped down to around the Alisae slot.

Mentally, I didn't think it was enough to warrant posting

. As there's more a change than I thought, you're right about a need for an update.

{KatyKimFanClub, camelCasedSnivy, Political Clout, DKKoba}

(all on the caveats of Meuh/Cook flipping scum)

{DragonEater70, Ircher}
{Bingle, AniX}
{Save The Dragons, Theta Alpine}
{ofrhz}
{Klick}
{Aureal, Skygazer}
{Meuh}
{Cook}

I find it weird that you say that because normally you post your readlist every page even if there's only a slight change.
Still at least your reads are consistent. Which actually thinking about it is probably in your scumrange so whatever.
I'm lowkey thinking that maybe Ranger pocketed me hard this game and they might be scum. But I'll put the thought aside for now (at least until someone who pushed ranger has flipped).

With that said, your argument for specifically implo making that specific group does seem to hold water.

If the argument holds water, it's guaranteed.

Thanks to the xyzzy-siterules-clarification, I can't risk going into the details. I'm 100% sure Cook is from my group from Cook's posts discussing formatting and knowing it's an exact match to mine. I'm 99% sure KatyKimFanClub and camelCasedSnivy share this group. Their being likely EpicMafia-based roles bolsters the odds all of them being together.

1. Ranger has been using hyperbolic language when pushing Cook, saying multiple times the cay

guarantee

that Cook is scum, even though they base their evidence on speculation that we have no way of confirming regarding the role groups.

I'd happily elaborate if doing so didn't risk a modkill. I

can't

be anything except hyperbolic about the role PM groupings being guaranteed. My reasons for scumreadking Cook specifically in the group are beyond just my role directly countering hers.

Fineeeeee

2. Ranger has explictly stated they wanted to fake claim, and then said that these statements were a breadcrumb to their role? Except I don't really see how it breadcrumbs anything.
Don't see any relation personally.

I never actually pointed out all of my breadcrumbs. 32 was admitting I wasn't going to lie in my claim. 34 lays out I'm not just a miller. 45 was saying I was going to lie and claim my real role but say it's a fakeclaim. 95 was saying fakeclaiming's a bad habit. 131, I answered I should be aiming at town, because removing town modifiers/passives usually works as a +town buff. 133, I was fishing for negative utilities to claim, because I wanted to target negative utility players. 309, I kicked off massclaim because I selfishly wanted to know the best players to target. 1002 was meant to be posted the day after 309 yet was delayed due to my partner's situation, and was me following through on the prior breadcrumbs because the questions I asked about my 'fakeclaim' were me asking questions about my real role. I sent five questions to xyzzy to clarify the nature of my ability.

IDK I clicked most of these links and I don't think they're remotely breadcrumbs? Either Ranger is using the term very loosely here or she's actually making this shit up.

Until they got really angry about Cook being in the same grouping as them.

My only emotion regarding Cook is annoyance I'm not being followed to an elimination.

We have a guaranteed group of four which

certainly

contains scum, and it's a group with relatively active players who most slots have given commentary on. It's not a wagon on lurkers who give little information, it's a wagon on a player who has plenty of interactions which could break the game wide open if we actually flipped her.

If Cook were town it'd reveal one of {KatyKimFanClub, camelCasedSnivy} as scum, when that's against most players' expectations (throw in Ranger if being objective), and if Cook's scum then it conftowns all three within.

I've not towncased KatyKimFanClub or camelCasedSnivy, yet I

have

laid out why I believe Cook's scum by play.
Cook had a strong initial entrance, universally thought of as town.
I suggested Cook as deepscum.
Cook's demeanor instantly shifted as I began to push her.
She went from not paying attention to me at all to consistently portraying me negatively and trying to discredit me.

Cook's interactions with the Meuh slot heavily suggest they're scumbuddies.
Cook's play has gotten more anti-spew and more defensive as the pressure ramped up against her.

Cook's stances also shifted in response to 2043(first draft, 1972).

Throw in Cook's role is positive utility for scum to use (tacking on negative-utility modifiers to town players) and my role directly counters her (removing negative utilities), and there's a very high chance Cook's scum. Doubly so, if you think KKFC/CCS are town.

Could

I be wrong? It's possible. Still, this is the most sure I've ever been on a scumread.

I agree with the bold statements. I also forgot to quote Bingle's post but I agree with them that Cook is scum by play but not by mech.

VOTE: meuh
ok I think I have enough to say to flash wagon this

This is a good wagon and I'd join you there, as Meuh has a high chance of being scum. Not as guaranteed as Cook, yet high enough to warrant risking a D1 elimination, should we fancy it.

For whatever ungodly reason nobody wants to vote Cook, I think Meuh might be a good wagon, but first let's give her time to scumhunt like she wanted to. She might turn my read of the slot around.

[AniX]

AniX still pushing me which is just meh.

The fact you refuse to recognize how scummy your supposed role makes you seem makes you seem all the more scummy.

[Skygazer]

How are Cook and I both probably scum given the likelihood of us belonging to the same listmod group. Both our roles deal with randomization and are of negative/mixed utility.

this beetlejuice feels like more of a scum defense than a town one. i cant put it into words yet idk how to explain it but it's a scummy-feeling mech defense

[DragonEater70]

How are Cook and I both probably scum given the likelihood of us belonging to the same listmod group. Both our roles deal with randomization and are of negative/mixed utility.

I don't give a shit about speculating which rolegroups people are in before someone flips. For all I know both of you could be inventing the claim completely.

Also I didn't say you were necessarily partnered, just that you have higher than random chance of being scum, individually.

[KatyKimFanClub]

It's pretty fair that people find me scummy though, I definitely made the conscious decision to not try to scumhunt this game given my role.

why would your role make you wanna avoid scumhunting?

The way I see it either I get miselim'd pretty fast, which is probably good because on average town was more truthful than scum when claiming roles, so it's not like town loses anything other than a warm body,
or I'm kept alive until endgame since I'm a terrible slot for a NK, at which point the game would probably be solved mechanically.

[DragonEater70]

It's pretty fair that people find me scummy though, I definitely made the conscious decision to not try to scumhunt this game given my role.

Why would you ever do that?
Like I know you give utility when you die, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't try to influence the game before you die.

[DragonEater70]

Katy ese un mafioso?

Wait I just read this again. You think I'm scum for microwaving cheese?

I think you are scummy for starting to talk about food right after Koba said "it's towny to talk about food"

[KatyKimFanClub]

It's pretty fair that people find me scummy though, I definitely made the conscious decision to not try to scumhunt this game given my role.

Why would you ever do that?
Like I know you give utility when you die, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't try to influence the game before you die.

don't feel like scumhunting

[Skygazer]

i feel like kkfc's role could be a fakeclaim for scum tailor (or whatever the EM role was)

[KatyKimFanClub]

Katy ese un mafioso?

Wait I just read this again. You think I'm scum for microwaving cheese?

I think you are scummy for starting to talk about food right after Koba said "it's towny to talk about food"

Well, I made my post exactly 15 seconds after he made the previous one, so I guess you can determine for yourself whether or not I made it to get townread by Koba or rather as a response to the multiple posts in front of mine about cheese.

[KatyKimFanClub]

WE'RE PLAYING MAFIA NOW!

[Skygazer]

idk i'll consolidate if it doesnt happen but my intuition tells me kkfc is likely a red flip. and if they're town then their role provides us a bit of info wrt sorting fakeclaims. if they're a scum tailor we should nip that in the bud before they can act N1.

[DragonEater70]

AniX still pushing me which is just meh.

The fact you refuse to recognize how scummy your supposed role makes you seem makes you seem all the more scummy.

I kinda disagree with this take that "not seeing why I am scummy makes me scummy", due to the following:
1. You started by scumreading me for having too simple a role. (which btw I still disagree with. PC, Alisae/ofrhz, Katy and maybe some other ones also claimed some pretty simple roles. Also, you have no way to know which rolegroup I'm from. I could literally be the only one from my group)
2. Then basically everyone else kinda accepted that my role isn't too simple and fits neatly into the "normal role with unusual modifier" category. Meaning nobody but you is scumreading me for my role.
3. Therefore by your argument that not realizing it's scummy is itself scummy, is everyone else scummy as well for not scumreading me for this?

If you actually have a different argument from what I said here, feel free to present it. I promise i will read it properly and might even be convinced by your viewpoint (that it could look scummy, not that I am scum, obviously).

[KatyKimFanClub]

Do you think revealing earlier is better? Probability of revealing a scum role if I'm eliminated today is 4/18, but it could be higher later. We would also lose a cop.

[KatyKimFanClub]

Oh there's only 17 people. It's just 1/4 then.

[DragonEater70]

How are Cook and I both probably scum given the likelihood of us belonging to the same listmod group. Both our roles deal with randomization and are of negative/mixed utility.

this beetlejuice feels like more of a scum defense than a town one. i cant put it into words yet idk how to explain it but it's a scummy-feeling mech defense

I agree wholeheartedly. I also felt it was weird that Katy came out of nowhere to post after I scumread him, but didn't say anything before that.

[DragonEater70]

It's pretty fair that people find me scummy though, I definitely made the conscious decision to not try to scumhunt this game given my role.

why would your role make you wanna avoid scumhunting?

The way I see it either I get miselim'd pretty fast, which is probably good because on average town was more truthful than scum when claiming roles, so it's not like town loses anything other than a warm body,
or I'm kept alive until endgame since I'm a terrible slot for a NK, at which point the game would probably be solved mechanically.

WTF is this reasoning?
Like sure you might be alive at end game and solve mechanically, but until endgame you want to vote out as much scum as possible.

[DragonEater70]

I can't freaking believe town would have this weird mindset.
Not even AniX has this mindset.

[Skygazer]

if it reveals someone trueclaiming then that's also benefitial intel akin to a cop check

[KatyKimFanClub]

I agree wholeheartedly. I also felt it was weird that Katy came out of nowhere to post after I scumread him, but didn't say anything before that.

I mean is this a real argument or

[KatyKimFanClub]

if it reveals someone trueclaiming then that's also benefitial intel akin to a cop check

True! On the other hand if someone cop checks or confirms me then actually my role is super powerful on future days.

[DragonEater70]

idk i'll consolidate if it doesnt happen but my intuition tells me kkfc is likely a red flip. and if they're town then their role provides us a bit of info wrt sorting fakeclaims. if they're a scum tailor we should nip that in the bud before they can act N1.

I actually think KKFC acts as caught scum right now, and would encourage all the beautiful town players that don't want to vote out Meuh, Klick or Cook for whatever reason to vote here instead.

[KatyKimFanClub]

idk i'll consolidate if it doesnt happen but my intuition tells me kkfc is likely a red flip. and if they're town then their role provides us a bit of info wrt sorting fakeclaims. if they're a scum tailor we should nip that in the bud before they can act N1.

I actually think KKFC acts as caught scum right now, and would encourage all the beautiful town players that don't want to vote out Meuh, Klick or Cook for whatever reason to vote here instead.

??? Lol

[DragonEater70]

Do you think revealing earlier is better? Probability of revealing a scum role if I'm eliminated today is 4/18, but it could be higher later. We would also lose a cop.

Is this directed at me? Because I did not imply you should be eliminated. I implied you should form reads.