Mafia 88- Return to New Catania- Game Over!

[Yosarian2]

Interesting point, BM, but I think you're reading too much into it; especally since the mod made clear it would have been modkilled no matter if it was real or fake. I'd make the same kind of post as mod as Fonz's origional post, either way, so no one else would do the same thing and then be surprised if they got modkilled.

[Battle Mage]

Khelvaster in mini 551 was an excellent example of why mods should be as terse as possible.

I believe tubby is town

Qft. In fact Mini 551 is the prime example that sticks in my mind of why i am more than willing to exploit mod slips.

BM

Why did you edit my quote?

i removed the part that i obviously dont agree with, so i could 'qft' it. If you still want to elaborate, please feel free.

BM

[Shanba]

Please. Don't sit there insinuating at me, voice it outright if you want to accuse me of being scummy. But more to the point, I've already explained that I do not agree with your reasons for attacking Sir T: I do not agree with Xyl's reasons either. Yet I still find him suspicious, some of the reasons for which I have articulated (well, ok one of the reasons for which).

I was not insinuating anything, I was remarking that it was a strange stance to take for someone who voices agreement on at least a general level of Sir T being scummy to think pressure against Sir T is unproductive.

Unvote, Vote: tubby216

Firstly, "odd" and "strange" and all the synonyms of those words are loaded in the game of mafia, because we are looking for players who are not playing like everyone else, who have an agenda - i.e, players who are strange. Obviously, strange play does not necessarily equate to scummy play, but calling someone's play strange is a backdoor accusation.

Secondly, all pressure is not born equal. Imagine a scenario where you are suspicious of a player called Quentin. All of a sudden, someone starts attacking him because his name begins with "q". You know this pressure will be unproductive. In this case, I would attack the logic of the player attacking Quentin whilst still being suspicious of Quentin. The same applies here.

unvote tubby216

Maybe I'm underestimating scum-tubby, but that reaction feels townish to me.

I've been calling him townish this whole time, but I completely agree with you. I am absolutely against a tubbywagon.

On that note, the whole "mod confirmation" thing is probably a red herring and I will not be taking it into account in my play.

Tubby, he's not fishing. Fishing implies subtly trying to get you to reveal your role; i.e, not out and out asking you to claim.

I disagree with your definition. Considering the real life analogy, fishing can be done subtly or by setting off explosives under the water. Likewise, fishing in terms of trying to find out rolebased information, can be done subtly or by straight out asking.

BM

I disagree on the grounds that the analogy is poor (that is fishing to rolefishing - I realise that that is where it got its name from, but it is outdated.)

Unvote Vote: Yos.

I have read some of Natirasha's other games. Terse and angry seems pretty normal.

[Yosarian2]

Unvote Vote: Yos.
I have read some of Natirasha's other games. Terse and angry seems pretty normal.

Huh? I didn't say anything about Natirasha's other games. Do you have me confused with someone else, or what?

[farside22]

Updating a few games and doctor appointment today. I will catch up later this afternoon.
Thanks

[Xylthixlm]

vote: killa seven

Contribute or die. I'd prefer the former, but I'd settle for the latter.

Come on people. He's lurked 27 pages, do you think he's going to stop spontaneously?

I'm pretty sure plenty of you aren't voting, so do something useful with your votes.

[Xylthixlm]

Unvote Vote: Yos.
I have read some of Natirasha's other games. Terse and angry seems pretty normal.

Huh? I didn't say anything about Natirasha's other games. Do you have me confused with someone else, or what?

This strikes me as an attempt to distract the issue.

Shanba, what's the issue anyways?

[Yosarian2]

How can I distract from the issue when I have no idea why Shanba is voting me?

[Ectomancer]

Unvote Vote: Yos.
I have read some of Natirasha's other games. Terse and angry seems pretty normal.

Huh? I didn't say anything about Natirasha's other games. Do you have me confused with someone else, or what?

This strikes me as an attempt to distract the issue.

Shanba, what's the issue anyways?

Sincerity. It's what's lacking.

[Battle Mage]

Unvote...Vote: Shanba

BM

[Shanba]

Yos:

In the interests of exploring new, and possibly fresher pastures, Vote: Natirasha pending meta investigation of his playstyle.

Natirasha's play struck me as possibly scummy depending on whether or not he always played like this. Checking, he is often concise, sarcastic and does not necessarily comment on everything.

And I agree that Yos is not distracting from the issue, because I have yet to raise the issue, mostly because it's gut. I'm working on articulating what it was that made my gut go off, but it may take some time. Consider this a placeholder until then.

[The Fonz]

Just to note: will do my next lurker/prod roundup on thurs night. Feel free, as usual, to point out candidates.

[Xylthixlm]

Psychological research tells us that decisions made on gut are usually better than decisions made on logic.

But it would still be nice if you could explain what you're seeing, Shanba.

[militant]

School's been busy, I will collect my thoughts and post tomorrow.

[skitzer]

Hmm...sorry for the long lapse, but I really'm not sure I believe tubby's claim.

[Hoopla]

Xyl, aside from lurkers, who do you find the scummiest right now and why?

Honestly, my ability to find scum in a large game on day 1 is pretty weak. Nobody has done anything scummy enough to make them a better lynch than a lurker, aside from tubby who is giving inconsistent reads.

For real? There's 27 pages of good stuff just lying around ready to be analysed. I know the majority of players aren't actively contributing, but you're posting frequently, probing, and you're still unsure? I like the fact that players like BM and you are active, but if we're not getting anywhere from it pipe down.

Besides if we're going to focus on lurkers, SensFan is the obvious choice;

Sens isolation http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 07#1350407: Responds to prod, 5 days into game. Note: had been active in other games during that timeframe.
Isolation 1, 2, 3: Starts posting thoughts as he sees them on pages 1, 2, 3.
Isolation 4, 5: Makes general comments about lack of alignment information regarding a no lynch vote, which is interesting to me considering Sens belated entry into the game, merely responding to a prod.
Isolation 6: Now starts conversing with BM claiming I'm not arguing about the no lynch for myself.
Isolation 7: Now states he hasn't finished reading the thread, despite picking comments to respond to.

Nov 16 - Dec 04 doesn't make a post

Isolation 18: Joins the game again with a post telling tubby if he doesn't post he will get lynched.

Dec 04 - Now - no posts.

*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*

Focusing on OGML and Sir T;

I originally voted OGML earlier in the game for making these statements (154, 202) without any justification. He was probed by myself and Ecto about what his case on Sir T was, and didn't get that in until post 549.

I think OGML has a good case on Sir T, however, the thing that irks me is that the weight of the case appears in posts 400+, well after the initial vote for Sir T by OGML.

Nothing either of them have done since has done enough to sway my opinion on both of them, and I'd be satisfied with an OGML or Sir T lynch.

*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*

Unvote, Vote: SensFan

[Natirasha]

Snes has been going through rough times IRL, from what I was told.

[Hoopla]

Snes has been going through rough times IRL, from what I was told.

Understandable.

[tubby216]

i'm sorry i still feel ogml is scummy

i am not understanding these points

bm's vote on shanba

shanb's vote on yos

could you please explain??

[tubby216]

i do understand hoopla on sens,
@hoopla do you feel sens is worse than ogml?
is sens the scummiest so far?

[curiouskarmadog]

updating this game tomorrow

[Der Hammer]

Tubbys claim really doesnt convince me so I think my vote is happy were it is

[tubby216]

Tubbys claim really doesnt convince me so I think my vote is happy were it is

ok thats fine and i understand that.

hoever does anyone else strike you as scummy?

do you have anythoughts on the recent voting activity?

do you have an opinion or are you content to ride the wagon on me through to lynch offering no help or any thoughts as to who else might be scum?

[Shanba]

shanb's vote on yos

I'm trying. Please bear with me.

Here's what I think pinged me so far. Mostly it's about his attack on tubby: it was reading those posts that gave me the bad gut feeling, so I'm trying to analyse what about these posts are scummy.

Firstly is the fact that I strongly disagree (in parts) with his analysis of tubby's play. Particularly, I disagree that this reaction:

so if i shut up and say nothing i get wagoned, then i speak up try to help ,, present a case and i still get voted ,, i love this ,,,this game is awesome

sounds like frustrated scum: it just sounds frustrated to me. I don't really get what's scummy about it.

Then there's the fact that his vote feels off to me, timing wise. Can't really place it. I think it just looks a touch opportunistic: Yos' vote was on the crest (or just before) of the wagon, if you will.

And then there's the fact that his play towards BM and his play towards tubby seem somewhat inconsistent: BM's power role hint-threat, despite coming from a vastly more experienced player who knows the ins and outs, who should be better than that, whereas tubby's comes from a newbie who seems almost incoherent at times...

And then there's just the fact that I think tubby's attempts to scumhunt have, at least, looked fairly town which Yos just seems to ignore.

All this is my attempt to understand my gut read. Proof that it can be done, and not doing it is just lazy.

[Yosarian2]

Firstly is the fact that I strongly disagree (in parts) with his analysis of tubby's play. Particularly, I disagree that this reaction:

so if i shut up and say nothing i get wagoned, then i speak up try to help ,, present a case and i still get voted ,, i love this ,,,this game is awesome

sounds like frustrated scum: it just sounds frustrated to me. I don't really get what's scummy about it.

Well, I have a hard time explaining in any more detail then that; sort of a partly gut thing of my own, I guess. I guess it seems scummy to me because the vibe I get is that he seems almost entierly focused on not getting lynched; it makes me think that when he was making cases, he was perhaps only doing so to try to get the pressure off of him and is frustrated it didn't work.

Then there's the fact that his vote feels off to me, timing wise. Can't really place it. I think it just looks a touch opportunistic: Yos' vote was on the crest (or just before) of the wagon, if you will.

This is like the 4th time in as many games I've been called opportunistic, and I have yet to have anyone explain to me even exactally what that means or how it is supposed to be a scumtell. It's like people think there's something inherently wrong with joining wagons, or something.

And then there's the fact that his play towards BM and his play towards tubby seem somewhat inconsistent: BM's power role hint-threat, despite coming from a vastly more experienced player who knows the ins and outs, who should be better than that, whereas tubby's comes from a newbie who seems almost incoherent at times...

Eh...nothing BM's done seems to be too far outside his normal pro-town meta for me to get too worried about it yet.

And then there's just the fact that I think tubby's attempts to scumhunt have, at least, looked fairly town which Yos just seems to ignore.

Well, I actually did unvote Tubby after his first real scumhunting-appearing-post. That being said, his attacks on Oh God My Life just seem really scummy to me, as I explained. Do you really think that make him "look fairly town" to you?