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[biancospino]

Votecount 3-II (UNCHANGED)

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to hammer.

Votes

Not Voting (5):

JacksonVirgo, the worst, Random Nurse, ZZZX, AnimatedWiz

Notes

• The Deadline is due in (expired on 2023-09-24 23:16:26)
  
• You can find the combined mod ISO here.

[AnimatedWiz]

Well, mostly I just am trying to figure out what pairings make sense, since that’s probably the best tool here.

I feel like ZZZX and Blue working together since early on makes me consider them as a likely scumteam, but I can’t discount the possibility that Bianco would

definitely

consider having a double-scum neighborhood for how funny that would be. I suppose that, since both of those possibilities include the worst, he’s not a bad choice as a target.

Plus, if he flips as an Informed Wolf Neighbor, we know it’s almost certainly the second possibility—eliminating ZZZX just doesn’t seem to be as reasonable right now.

[JacksonVirgo]

I’m personally solving between ducky, zzz and RN and while I believe it’s almost certainly zzz. RN and ducky occupy a conflicting slot imo as there’s no way they’re both real. And I know I’m town from your own poe

[JacksonVirgo]

That being said I don’t believe it’s RN

[ZZZX]

2+2=4-3=1, with that out of the way, lets see how things look:


Not Voting (5): JacksonVirgo, the worst, Random Nurse, ZZZX, AnimatedWiz

with RN's results, Wiz cannot be scum unless its RN/Wiz pairing, there is a possibility that RN might be trying to pocket Wiz, but it would seem weird, I would've expected scum-RN to fake a 'positive' read on me and try to win here and now, but I have a few things in my mind, and thing have been... interesting. I will await some information for sure.

So the way it is, is either 2 scum in Jackson, the worst, RN, or RN, Wiz pairing.

Let me reply to a few messages seperately to help my short as hell attention span

[ZZZX]

i've just skimmed. if anyone is not locked on me being scum in the hood, please work with me. this isn't going to be easy by any stretch but this game is still winnable.



zzzx is just not an easy read. they have done very little this game. they were a passive presence on d1, picked a fight with rn over mechanical play instead of solving d2, and their end of day readlist feels largely very safe, and in part an excuse to pivot onto a passenger lim which they had already decided on before they actually did their catch-up? without the mechanical information we had i think i'd be null/scum on this slot and kinda just drag zzzx about their behaviour d2 but like. as it stands, pending rn's confirmation, i'm pretty sure zzzx is also confirmed scum to me. so there's that.

jackson has turned this game around in a way which is just, like, very scum-aligned. their slot was the larger wagon at the time of their replace-in, their pred did not look great and they did need to do something to turn it around. their catchup posts were superficially fine, but what they actually accomplished were:
- establishing blue as potential hoodscum, pretty much ignoring the 2x scum hood analysis? .... which like, as a townie in the hood, this feels fairly pertinent to me but i'll circle back to this
- establishing passenger as potential hoodscum, and then ultimately heavily driving this read based on passenger being "caught in a lie". this is a fairly common scum tactic where they latch onto a perceived untruth at the expense of further solving.
- sets zzzx up as a scumread, and does a lot to be seen to be scumreading them. but never actually pushes zzzx. jackson briefly voted for zzzx, but you can see they take the first opportunity to shift off this wagon.

none of these present as earnest scumreads. there is also a marked difference in the way jackson manoeuvres around zzzx's slot vs. the way they talk about my slot and passenger. they are doing as much as they can to keep doors for potential eliminations open, rather than actually find townreads & limit the pool of suspects.

the way they ignore the conversation about a potential 2x scum hood is also pinging because fmpov it's clearly in jackson's best interest to let that wifom live on in the hopes that if they are caught, i'm still a viable misyeet after them.



i also think blue was really towny? their day one posts weren't exactly groundbreaking, but i don't think their reads presented as made-up and i think it's noticeable that they were approaching this game from a perspective of sorting alignments, not a perspective of making friends and getting by. their day two posts also feel really pure from where i stand - they read as someone who was manipulated, not the manipulator.




i'm going to keep this pretty summary. i'm wary that this is literally confirmed fmpov. i doubt that me extensively casing a jv/zzzx team is all that valuable, and i doubt that extensively towncasing blue is going to be all that helpful. i kind of need to know where y'all are at right now.

I would argue that I have done relatively little because the game was absolutely dead, I tried to push it further but that wasn't possible, I went on V/LA, and the game post count tripled in length, so more than 2/3s of the posts that matter happened while I was on V/LA. You can argue that its an excuse, and it might, but the fact is that it was how it went.

[ZZZX]

Well... me not having any strong scum reads is a bit annoying innit.

Lack of reads is a common scum-tell owo.

Also, why would you open up discussion only to just hammer and stop the discussion?

Well, a few reasons to be fair:

1- The game was stalled just because I asked to provide my thoughts before we hammer, which I did
2- After catching up, out of everyone, I agreed personally with the current person driven to E-1, and I had none else I suspected further
3- There was a day left, and I didnt want to see any more schenanigans, I didn't trust non-funny stuff to not happen.

You may say its not ideal, and sure, but at least I didnt hammer without a word in the first few pages at day 1 I wasn't planning for scum to try and find a flash wagon on me or anyone else in case Passenger was one of them, although on the hindsight scum would've had a bit more resistance there? Well, hindsight is 20/20 I suppose

[ZZZX]

Well... me not having any strong scum reads is a bit annoying innit.

Lack of reads is a common scum-tell owo.

Also, why would you open up discussion only to just hammer and stop the discussion?

Additionally, I am fully aware that a lack of scum reads is a common scum-tell, but unfortuantely I am not gonna bullshit my reads while town to avoid looking suspecious, I'd rather tell you honestly my thoughts, and maybe its me being rusty after years of not playing, maybe its an effect of this game's messed up status, or perhaps it is simply a bad cheeseburger I had at some point, But I did not have any real scum reads

[ZZZX]

i also think blue was really towny? their day one posts weren't exactly groundbreaking, but i don't think their reads presented as made-up and i think it's noticeable that they were approaching this game from a perspective of sorting alignments, not a perspective of making friends and getting by. their day two posts also feel really pure from where i stand - they read as someone who was manipulated, not the manipulator.

If you don’t mind me asking, who do you feel manipulated Blue?

Also, it seems to me like the general consensus is some combination of ZZZX, Jackson, and worst is our scumteam, which isn’t horrible odds for us to pick from—2/3 is better than 2/5 for sure.

I don't think a single person overtly manipulated Blue. Honestly, scum rarely do overtly manipulate townies. I think townies are usually manipulated by a scum-led gamestate, rather than by a specific member of the scumteam.

In a sense, I can see two scenarios:

Scum manipulated the game state by... doing nothing while it was dead.

Or RN crashing the game with his D1 hammer, and creating the mass claim plan into scanning his teammate to try and guaranty a win (Since I suppose it is easier to 'create' a confirmed townie than to force the game into a 1v1 now that I think about it)

[ZZZX]

This is truly a frustrating choice for voting, because it feels like all my choices have been a bit scummy.

Jackson’s been posting so much that it feels like they’re actively attempting to bury other arguments, worst’s predecessor generated little but scumreads for the whole game, and ZZZX has voted a lot but said little about it. Even Nurse has played his cards so close to his chest that I can’t even read him too well, though I do feel like I can trust him still.

That's a... weird observation. Might you explain?

I checked, I had 5 voting posts, one of which was an accidental double post, so 4, and 2(3) of the votes were D1 RVS votes. So I in total had 2 actual votes, the NM E-2 vote, and the hammer. And I am sure I had context for both

[ZZZX]

Well, mostly I just am trying to figure out what pairings make sense, since that’s probably the best tool here.

I feel like ZZZX and Blue working together since early on makes me consider them as a likely scumteam, but I can’t discount the possibility that Bianco would

definitely

consider having a double-scum neighborhood for how funny that would be. I suppose that, since both of those possibilities include the worst, he’s not a bad choice as a target.

Plus, if he flips as an Informed Wolf Neighbor, we know it’s almost certainly the second possibility—eliminating ZZZX just doesn’t seem to be as reasonable right now.

Well I find this interesting, in a sense, if Wiz is scum I would've expected him to go for me as the easiest MissLim in the game at this point, with how Jackson likes me, and Wiz/RN, I would think thats an easy finish for them, so I will like to believe Wiz is town.

And if RN is a traffic analyser, it is interesting, https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... ic_Analyst

So it definitely wasn't blocked (since blocked message is different), and it would also indicate that Wiz is Vanilla likely, or at least not any of the neighborhood roles (which makes sense), mafia, mailman, or any similar roles (I hoped that page would give a longer list of roles results, but I guess it is a normal anyway so I shouldn't expect anything too exciting)

[ZZZX]

Barring anything too interesting, I'd expect a 'the worst' and 'jackson' duo, although I wouldn't be too surprised if RN was scum, and at least for now, I will take a shot in the dark and believe that Wiz is town, but I will probably re-read everyone again because its at that point where it is worth undertaking

[AnimatedWiz]

So, it seems like the main suspicions of everyone so far are:

Animated Wiz: the worst
JacksonVirgo: the worst
Random Nurse: ?
the worst: JacksonVirgo
ZZZX: JacksonVirgo and the worst

Seems like we have a mostly split town as far as I can tell. I still think going for one of the neighbors is best—personally, I think the worst would be the best choice here, but I don't want to start voting just yet still.

[the worst]

reflecting on this, if RN is scum that gambit has already won him the game so

VOTE: JV

not on my best vibe today, i'll be around more tomorrow - if i wake up to a town loss mb

[Random Nurse]

Well, this is annoying. There's clearly 2 Scum within Worst, JV, and ZZZX.

How the fuck am I supposed to tell who is the Townie?

Did all 3 of you full-claim already?

[ZZZX]

Well, I really dislike you voting now, because if you are wrong and both scum come on, we lose, and if JV is scum, that puts a big questionmark from my side on who his buddy would be.. Like It cannot be anything other than JV/RN if you aren't simply hard bussing.

Questions questions..

[ZZZX]

Well, this is annoying. There's clearly 2 Scum within Worst, JV, and ZZZX.

How the fuck am I supposed to tell who is the Townie?

Did all 3 of you full-claim already?

Yes, everyone claimed (I am vanilla, and I believe the other two were neighbor buddies?),

Although I have a hunch that someone is either lying or not telling the entire truth, and I am not sure

why

.

[ZZZX]

In fact, if Random Nurse is town, it puts a really weird situation with regards to that vote,

If RN is town, then Wiz is definitely town, and fmpov, that only leaves JV Worst as the duo.

Would worst risk a JV bus at this point? I guess, maybe if he doesn't have the confidence that he can out-do Wiz/RN, and needs to somehow get something out.. But I'd think they'd try to push me.

It just isn't clicking for me.

[Random Nurse]

Wiz, who are you thinking of voting?

ZZZX and JV who are you voting?

[Random Nurse]

I need JV and Worst to repeat their claims.

[biancospino]

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