i procrastinated opening this dead thread

[DragonEater70]

Haven't read all dead thread yet, I'm probably very interested in what Koba has to say, but my investigation turned up with "no result" which is weird since I was nightkilled so what's the point of even blocking me.

[DragonEater70]

nice.
also i am kinda annoyed ppl think i died with a legacy of cook town when i specifically said cook probably scum in both aureal town and scum worlds lol

fwiw i dont regret killing aureal bc their role talk was choking the thread state and ppl were just playing amway + i dont get why ppl arent looking at who bingle hooded as a traitor ??

I thought your legacy was Cook&Aureal scum together.

[DragonEater70]

I agree Aureal's thing was choking discussion badly, I slightly regret killing, partly because she probably could've roleblocked AniX from killing me.

[DragonEater70]

Oh hi Theta, seems you're dead so my night action wouldn't have mattered anyway.

Anyway, ofrhz is basically conftown now for killing Yimmy so that's nice. 4 dead town and 2 dead scum by Day 3 sounds good to me.

[DragonEater70]

Also, I think my flip explains why I thought fullclaiming was pointless.

[DragonEater70]

Oh turns out mod made an error, my investigation went through and Cook was scum.

So this game could've been a flawless townsweep if voted Cook over Aureal.

[DragonEater70]

I still think Cook 90% dies today since Ranger is apparently town and Ranger isn't gonna give up on limming her.

So that's GGEZ

[DragonEater70]

something i believed on some level before going in was that i would get a setup that i could fully parse once i had the whole thing available to me. and that's probably true for a lot of setups where you design it yourself: you may not figure out all the intentions beforehand, but you know broadly speaking how each role should function, and importantly, the precise wording of each role PM is a thing you had a hand in. once you get handed a bunch of roles that other people designed, you suddenly have to start asking yourself questions like, okay, this Amway recruitment ability doesn't say it targets a player, and it doesn't function in the way that a targeting action would, and the role has other abilities that *do* target, and those are clearly a thing where you're sending an action to the moderator. so i guess the recruitment isn't an ability that targets a player, which means if someone gets it who has restrictions on who they can target, then that ability ignores those restrictions? sure. that works. but then this other PM mentions that it can't be "recruited into the main faction." what's the main faction. like, i don't think Amway is a faction, but it's a judgment call, right? it turns out running a game like this involves making way more rulings on the fly about what feels correct.

my next game is gonna be a veiled committee mini theme, and i an appointing myself one of the designers. i have tentatively designed roles, and i look forward to potentially creating an enormous headache for myself. i also have a truly fucked up idea for how i might run a veiled committee upick. that being said, i do not want to claim ownership over this concept. there's endless variations on how you could have a setup designed this way, and i could not possibly do all of them in a hundred years, so if you're reading this and thinking "hey this sounds like a truly nightmarish experience, i'd like to try it out," then by all means run with it. that being said, i'm gonna work on figuring out a format that works for eliminating the issue around discussing specific formatting that isn't just "get a blanket approval every single time i run one of these," so lemme know if you have thoughts on that. personally, i am fully in favor of players trying to suss out which groups of roles match each other, and i think it's fun to let designers lean into that. like when i ran the original incarnation of this premise, non-reviewed game, one of the roles was "John, a town Shootsmith!" and the role PM started "oh man! you're John, a town Shootsmith!" i can't recall if there was any attempt to piece together the game using who submitted what, but that was also self evidently probably not designed by the person who just submitted "mafia 1-shot neighborizer encryptor: can only use 1 shot of neighborizing" as one of their roles. personally, i think that's a unique aspect of this that is worth leaning into, and i would love to receive a set of roles from somebody where one of them is super obviously intended to look like another one of the designers wrote it and for the players to have to deal with that fact

oh also: Bingle was not an Amway consultant yet when those alleged recruitments happened! for that sort of role change, i would always, always rule that you do not have whatever new abilities are being granted by someone else's actions until i personally confirm that you have them. i told Bingle this via PM, so i think this is all an elaborate ploy. once 24 hours have officially passed and i'm definitely in the clear to let Bingle in, we can finally get the full answer regarding any possible ploys. all that to say: Bingle was only ever in the one hood but did a pretty good job convincing everyone that that was due to mechanical reasons, and now that that's "disproven," it's probably gonna get weird

Woah nice rant

My main takeaway is I would love being in the next vailed commitee and/or veiled upick, because I have some cool ideas.

[DragonEater70]

i would hazard to guess that my flip being the traitor was the most + for town info at least.traitor changes the dynamics of how spew works and it could have screwed people's solves up immensely.

scum cant kill meuh now bc it'll expose another role and scum have to remove a night action role

very nice.

I looked back and saw bingle didnt actually get to neighborize anyone so that is good for town that they didnt get to contact eachother.

Your flip basically confirmed Bingle as scum so yeah that was oretty dope stuff

[DragonEater70]

oh btw something i noticed early on but after the game had started that was very much a judgment call: the Amway PM says that you gain all your recruiter's abilities, not all of their Amway abilities. 100% of the time i will always rule in favor of not having the game be trivially broken by bullshit, and "stack all the abilities onto each other so we can definitively check everyone's claims and also somehow everyone has access to the factional mafia kill????" is bullshit

Oh so I wasn't being srupid in my interpretation? I thought if I got amway I could make everyone cop but literally everyone ignored this possibility so I thought I was just being dumb.

[DragonEater70]

oh btw something i noticed early on but after the game had started that was very much a judgment call: the Amway PM says that you gain all your recruiter's abilities, not all of their Amway abilities. 100% of the time i will always rule in favor of not having the game be trivially broken by bullshit, and "stack all the abilities onto each other so we can definitively check everyone's claims and also somehow everyone has access to the factional mafia kill????" is bullshit

ah true MLM fashion.

the flip was kinda underwhelming like it was being sold like it was some super awesome OP role but it literally did nothing except waste discussion time while being a glorified joat

Yeah

[DragonEater70]

nope!! actually it's incredible how completely wrong every attempt to work out who designed what has been. Ranger's list has, like, a single correct piece of information on it

I can believe that which is why I was so annoyed with Ranger's "guaranteeing" people were scum but like Cook was scum so that's all good.

[DragonEater70]

Bit of a shame that anix didnt apologize for being wrong lol

True

[DragonEater70]

I think AniX thinks they did town a favor by killing me because I was "ruining the mechsolve"

[DragonEater70]

I would vig DE again and regret nothing, somehow he decided his best play was to lie about his role three times.

Hopefully I don't get banned from MafiaScum, but what an arrogant idiot.

Also I literally lied only once.

[DragonEater70]

Unless "I lied about my role" is somehow a lie.

[DragonEater70]

I think AniX thinks they did town a favor by killing me because I was "ruining the mechsolve"

And yet the social solve has already caught 3

Yeah exactly

[DragonEater70]

It's so darn annoying

[DragonEater70]

where did third death come from

Ofrhz pretty sure

[DragonEater70]

i was quite certain dragoneater and ircher were scum
and was suspecting ofhrz as the last at the end ha

i really should know better whenever i start to think i have an actual solve

Lol, were you thinking I'm scum just because of Bingle interaction? Xyzzy explained here what happened.

[DragonEater70]

Yeah, I also didn't consider that mech interaction a possibility, but it does make a lot of sense. I mean they just didn't have that power, I guess.

[DragonEater70]

Also it's fucking hilarious that Cook basically killed their own traitor.
Gj Cook.

[DragonEater70]

Okay let's see if we can solve the game here in the dead thread:

These players are alive, 2 of them are scum:
Cook - confirmed scum due to investigation
Ranger - 90% sure town due to hard push on scum!Cook
Ofrhz - 99.9% town for killing Yimmy
Enchant - 95% town (my townread)
AniX - 95% town (idk if a scum vig would exist this game but it's not impossible)
StD - ??? (I personally tr but others might disagree)
CCS - ??? (same as std)
Katy - ???
Meuh - I somewhat tr but Drew was scummy af and Meuh might actually be well-playing scum.
Skygazer - ???
Ircher - hard tr for pushing Cook and defending Aureal in a way that didn't feel like trying to get towncred.

So obviously not everyone shares my reads, but if I were alive then game was solved as Cook + 1 out of katy/meuh/skygazer, and town has like 3 miselims (or 2 miselims and 2 vigshots if my math is correct and if we still have people with vigshots which I doubt)

[DragonEater70]

Do you agree with my analysis?

[DragonEater70]

it had happened after they had accepted the power in our pt and i am pretty sure also after a vote count so uh
i had no reason to suspect they just
did not have the powers yet

Tbh I was slightly wary of that possibility when Bingle tried to confirm themselves iirc, which is why I waited for a VC.

So I completely get your confusion.

[DragonEater70]

Yeah I agree with you

I also had this solve for most of Day 1

[DragonEater70]

is it just meuh/cook lmao

Rare as it may be, sometimes, games really

are

that easy.

We should always

assume

it's not that easy. We lose nothing by preparing to be wrong, and can potentially gain things if we are. Most games which seem too easy, are.

However, as MBOS showed, sometimes the obvscum actually are scum, with the town having accurately pinned them.

I'm definitely down to yeet Cook then Meuh to test if this game joins the rank of exceptions to the rule.

VOTE: Cook.

Go town!

can i dissuade my wagon from voting me for any reason or is this kind of a foregone conclusion

Lol this is basically a scum claim

[DragonEater70]

meuh is the only treestumper alive right now if they are universal backup i believe so
i get the feeling that will not be an issue
either they can only treestump scum or uh
or they are scum

Yeah

[DragonEater70]

I still think Cook 90% dies today since Ranger is apparently town and Ranger isn't gonna give up on limming her.

So that's GGEZ

Ya i died bc i was gonna tunnel cook. Still i think killing amway d1 was best for town here

this is not true (i stink at watching my mouth also)

I think Cook dies today anyway and then Meuh loses treestumping ability, so feel free to explain why Koba died.

[DragonEater70]

Oh that's interesting

But would be useless since the best play 100% is simply to ignore anything scum posts?

[DragonEater70]

How? I mean they are conf backup, but how does that conftown them?

[DragonEater70]

Though I also think the backup is likelier than not to be town

And thinking about it for a sec, they could've claimed Koba was the real traitor and save Bingle probably.

[DragonEater70]

I still think second scum is in Meuh/Katy/Skygazer by pure process of elimination.

[DragonEater70]

lol

[DragonEater70]

Go for it

[DragonEater70]

But thanks for letting us know that Meuh is town

[DragonEater70]

Amazing.

[DragonEater70]

Yeah

Honestly if this Day 1 lasted a few more real life days I think we could have solved the entire scumteam (sans traitor) on Day 1 which would be hilariously amusing.

[DragonEater70]

And when I say "we" I mean like have an entire town consensus (except maybe AniX)

[DragonEater70]

Yep

[DragonEater70]

Tbh I feel like this game is such a guaranteed town win it doesn't even matter if they interpret everything we said completely wrong.

Like unless for some bizzare reason town decides to lim in the conftowns/town leaders, I think the PoE is small enough to just gg ez the mafia.

[DragonEater70]

Honestly this game might end sooner (in game)/with less town deaths than MSOB.

[DragonEater70]

I meant MBOS

[DragonEater70]

not me gathering/analyzing a ton of DE posts trying to find crumbs only to find "btw I investigated koba"

I am dying here

[DragonEater70]

Never eliminate enchant or snivy imo

If cook is town, I think ranger is scum

First line: yooo these are my D1 locktown reads

Second line: Good take but Cook is scum so it doesn't matter

[DragonEater70]

Btw that's an hammer on Cook

[DragonEater70]

The mindmeld with ofrhz is real

Even death didn't do us apart

[DragonEater70]

I love it that dead thread (aka me) noticed hammer before living players

[DragonEater70]

now time for alive players to lose to KKFC last because they did a silly bus vote

I don't think this ever happens, KKFC is quite scummy

[DragonEater70]

cook was exiled today and was a mafia modifier

Modifier

Cook

you are a mafia modifier! you win once no members of opposing factions are alive, or when nothing can prevent this.

while you are alive you must assign the following modifiers to yourself and your team each night:

• Macho
  
• Bulletproof
  
• Ninja
  
• Announcing
  
• Loved
  
• Hated

each member of your team must have at least one modifier, but may have multiple. each night you may change who has each modifier. if you are killed by any means, all modifiers cease working.

the other members of the mafia faction are XXX

your faction has a factional kill. one member of your faction can kill a town player each night. you cannot use this ability on the same night that you use another ability.

as long as you are alive, during the day, you can vote and post in the game thread.

y'all have 72 hours to submit actions. please cc both me and xyzzy in on your actions.
(expired on 2023-09-18 17:45:00)

LOL

@Koba imagined if you flipped this instead of Bingle's role.

[DragonEater70]

Like IDK if it was better for town but it sure as hell would've been funnier.

Also what the hell was the point of Cook claiming they gave bingle Hated?

[DragonEater70]

Well I didn't get the point of bussing your partner when you are next in line for a lim either way?

Also, I wonder if nightkill technically counts as a night ability, because if it does then technically KKFC can't use Nightkill due to Amway.

[DragonEater70]

you guys just don't understand our genius!!!!

Sorry, I just know that AniX has already figures out your plan and is going to explain how KKFC is scum by mech.

[DragonEater70]

Oh ok

[DragonEater70]

you guys just don't understand our genius!!!!

Sorry, I just know that AniX has already figures out your plan and is going to explain how KKFC is scum by mech.

Cause Katy's role is too simple to be real. Just like mine.

[DragonEater70]

Yimmy am I right in thinking that Katy just got a really bad negative utility role and that they're true claiming?

[DragonEater70]

True

[DragonEater70]

while we did suggest that amway blocked factional abilities that was not actually the case
there is already an inconsistency skygazer could catch kkfc on but not sure that will get noticed

What's the inconsistency?

mafia is a full time job

True lol

[DragonEater70]

Eh. Game was basically unwinnable mechanically.

Also, genuinely, I’m massively disappointed with the listmod submissions here. There’s just a ton of anti fun roles.

I agree. I feel like the scum roles were massively underpowered compared to the power town had.

[DragonEater70]

But also a lot of roles, like mine, CCS, yours, were just boring.

[DragonEater70]

yeah it kind of feels like the listmods were all expecting everyone else to submit really powerful roles and thus submitted mostly negative utility or low power stuff

I guess that makes sense but that's really funny.

[DragonEater70]

i thought my fakeclaim was an interesting role too

Well it was, I just feel like it would make more sense if you chose what modifier to give (and would actually be a more believable claim).

[DragonEater70]

It was a pretty cool fakeclaim though, if you discount it not working in the context of this game. Much better than Mr. "Fakeclaim as "Not a Cop"" in the town.

I am not horribly offended, but on my defense, did you read my actual flip? There wasn't a lot for me to work with, unless you wanted me to just invent a brand new role which idk if that would be really justified.

[DragonEater70]

i think ircher -> kkfc -> ccs would probably win the game??

what can i do to towntell

First of all, nice

Second of all, what if I told you that you already towntold but the person TRing your push on scum is dead?

[DragonEater70]

Players aren’t given dead pt if they could be treestumped/possibly continue posting in a game, jsyk.

Oh really? Didn't know that one.

Also wasn't the whole point of killing Theta to prevent treestumping?
@Mafia can you confirm this?

[DragonEater70]

I noticed that flavor in Enchant's flip, and thought it was intentional, but due to not having it myself I had no way of assuming ithers would have it.

Also, I support the idea of a format where you can discuss role PMs.

[DragonEater70]

The uPick idea sounds fun

And don't worry, when you release this PT your post count will be bumped up.

[DragonEater70]

actually lets keep meuh alive for today: either shes nightkilled or she gets a result

I understand the desire to wait, to be cautious, in case Meuh isn't scum.

However, as I'm rather certain Meuh's the last scum, a Meuh elimination would just end the game in a town win.

We also have a notable townpool.

{Ranger, camelCasedSnivy, KatyKimFanclub} are conftown from being in Cook's role group.
ofrhz's conftown from having shot scum.

We've got nine alive.

If you townbin AniX, then yeeting {Meuh, Skygazer, Ircher, Save The Dragons} brute forces a win.

We don't need to wait for a hypothetical result from Meuh. There's only one scum left alive, so we've got four eliminations with four in the suspect pool.

I'd prefer Meuh > Skygazer > Ircher > STD here. We'll almost assuredly win before we get to STD, because the final scum is in that pool.

I prefer Meuh first because Meuh's

not

playing like her town self and I can accurately read her predecessor Doctor Drew and he was scum, too.

Lol I still think it's ridiculous to think you have a guaranteed mech clear on someone based on guessing who sent in their role.

Also Ranger is so tunnely, which was like a good thing with regard to Cook so I shouldn't complain, but com'on Meuh has a FREAKING MECH CLEAR that doesn't need SPECULATION to confirm her and she's still tunneling her.

[DragonEater70]

I'll be mad if Ranger's "clears by mech-association with Cook" loses town the game

[DragonEater70]

And I also found it ridiculous that she preflipped Cook AND Meuh as scum on Day 1 and based on that put like 4-5 player in the mech-cleared category of her readlist which is just... something I'd expect more from a newbie rather than someone like Ranger (who I do think has pretty good reads in general).

[DragonEater70]

I don't get it

Does everyone actually believe blindly that KKFF is mech cleared? Why???

[DragonEater70]

Honest question to everyone:

Considering my role flip which is 90% identical to my claim, do you think AniX was justified in scumreading me heavily off of my claim? (I think definitely not, because my role literally did nothing to prevent AniX's mechsolve which btw never actually came into fruition)

Also, considering again that AniX thought my role was fake, do you think I could have prevented myself getting vigged by claiming my real role on Day 2, even though it's 90% identical? (I think probably not, but open to to critique. I'm asking because I want to improve my play in the future.)

[DragonEater70]

cool

[DragonEater70]

@Mod am I allowed to quote mod communication / PTs here?

[DragonEater70]

If I were alive right now I would 100% push to kill KKFC, and I am not saying that because I'm spoiled through dead thread. I'm saying that because of this:

pretty sure I have some memory gaps

Meuh - conftown via AniX
Ranger - ?
Save The Dragons - ate baked goods, conftown barring no kill
AniX - vigged DE70
Skygazer - i know i'm town but i also ate baked goods
Ircher - ?
ofrhz - killed yimmy
camelCasedSnivy - ?
KatyKimFanClub - ?

Ranger was locktown based on Dayplay AND based on their play in the hood, CCS is still locktown based on Dayplay and on claim (but I guess this opinion may or may not be controversial), and any half-competent VCA or ISO dive will immediately show you that Ircher can't be scum unless you think he played hard against wincon the entirety of Day 1 for no reason. Like that guy has been persistently voting Cook and defending Aureal in a way that doesn't really work with how scum has played this game so far.

So that leaves Skygazer, StD and KKFC as the PoE limpool.

I personally like Skygazer's and StD's dayplay and didn't really like Katy's, but the kicker is Katy's roleclaim is supposed to be limmed so we can either create another conftown or immediately reveal the last scum, and Katy literally has no intention to solve to there's no benefit for leaving him alive whatsoever... It's the best mechanical play to lim him.

And instead they are thinking about Ircher???? Shake my head.

[DragonEater70]

Yeah

[DragonEater70]

What was your reason again?