Open 885: Backup6 [Game Over]

[meowmeow]

i'm confused. wheme flipped town?

is this some sort of bastard thing?

[camelCasedSnivy]

no wheme was town

[meowmeow]

to be clear my point was specifically that i don't think snivy behaves like that as scum with exactly happy

as scum with anyone else it doesn't apply

[camelCasedSnivy]

oh btw meowmeow i assume youre using ircher as an example of an associative

keep in mind i didn't even cult ircher, i culted a mason and i got bus driven onto ircher

[meowmeow]

i have never read weird dreams mafia redux and i doubt i ever will

i said i don't think you play like you did as scum with happy and aureal said you did in weird dreams redux

the flips seemed to suggest you were scum with ircher so that's what i focused on

[Ircher]

Day 2 VC #2

Abnegation

(2): Black (837), Dannflor (850)

Aureal

(1): camelCasedSnivy (825)

camelCasedSnivy

(2): Aureal (819), meowmeow (842)

Not Voting

(2): Abnegation, iamveryhappy

With seven alive, it takes four votes to fade a player.

Deadlines

This phase will end on Thursday, October 12, 2023 5:30 PM CDT (GMT-5:00) or in (expired on 2023-10-12 17:30:00).

Moderator Notes

1: If you have regular weekend V/LA, you must either notify me each time or set V/LA tags each time.
2: Let me know if you spot any errors in the vote count or voting history.
3: Let me know if you go by a different pronoun than listed.
4: The moderator is V/LA from October 9 to October 11.

Pronoun Key

1. camelCasedSnivy : he / him / his
3. Black : she / her / her
4. Aureal : she / her / her
6. Dannflor : he / him / his
7. meowmeow : any / any / any
8. iamveryhappy : he / him / his
9. Abnegation : she / her / her

[Abnegation]

i don't really think it's any of aureal abnegation or black right now, although i'm not a billion percent confident

i want to see what teams within {happy, dann, snivy} make sense i guess but those slots are probably in ascending order of how scummy they are to me

VOTE: camelcasedsnivy for now

that's pretty much where i'm at too (though i will probably need to re-read some things), except swap my name for yours.

[Abnegation]

meowmeow and abnegation are just blind

at least for abnegation, shes defending aureal by saying she "trusts in her ability to roll town"

i...
i get that tone does not always come across well online but that was not a serious statement.

[Abnegation]

I think Aureal's tone seems genuine in her approach to you

I think she actually believes you are scum and what you are framing as like "dragging reasons out" is her trying to solve you

+1

fwiw i think ccs' posting to enter the day is like surface-level scummy but i don't think it's actually scummy

can you explain why you don't (or didn't) think it's actually scummy? or if you have and i missed it, can you quote it?

[Abnegation]

Do people think Abnegation's posting here was scummy, surface-level or otherwise? I don't get it. I can't say she's not in my poe but nothing here pinged me.

For me it's mostly PoE. I don't think her posting has been that bad really but some of her actions give me pause.

I didn't like the way she sheeped meowmeow to put Dann at e-1. It didn't really feel like her scumread there was substantial enough to warrant that.

She kinda did the same thing to Dunn except that was a hammer when someone else had already declared intent.

I'm just getting vibes that there is an agenda here even though the posting has seemed a little carefree and uncertain

lol i get what you mean.

i wanted to put my vote to use somewhere but didn't really have much. sometimes the best case is somebody else's.

do you think there's a benefit to scum!me in hammering the wagon myself instead of allowing t3 to do it?

ehhh, sure.
i kind of just want this day to end and i have a bunch of "meh" people and t3 is one of them so...

intent to hammer t3.

i just want the day to end, let's end it on a pagetop.

VOTE: dunnstral

Why did you want day to end so badly?

bored and wanted to narrow down the big pile of meh. and i figured no one would really object to the hammer since it looked like that's where things were going anyway.

[Abnegation]

i forgot that's a public alt x.x

she has and she like completely stomped that game. i found it while i was playing w/ her in bianco's game

if this is a pocket, it's working.

I think what worries my about abnegation (aside from Generic just feeling well within his scum range and kind of LAMIST) is just how reactive and passive she is

and I mean I guess I can take the "not wanting to effort" thing at face value but I tend to think even townies who aren't specifically trying to effort inevitably have points where pro-active sorting or prodding comes out whether said townie is trying to effort or not

her play here just feels very observational and hedgey

none of it is like, spectacularly scummy or anything, but it feels safe - and it doesn't really feel like anything in this game is interesting to her. like she had a pretty wide PoE D1 but I don't really feel like I've been prodded or sorted by abnegation or that abnegation is trying to actively sort anyone else in her PoE

and I guess I just would've expected to see at least glimpses of that by now if she were town

ah, yes, being town is sooooooooo interesting when it's the eighteenth time in a row (i swear i do actually like this game, but this is ridiculous ).
but jokes aside, i've heard a lot of this before and i think it's just what happens when i feel blah and checked out of a game. why do you think i'm more likely to play this way (passive, hedgy, disengaged) as scum than as town?

[Abnegation]

i need to consider the world where snivy/iavh are town and someone is playing me.

[Dannflor]

i need to consider the world where snivy/iavh are town and someone is playing me.

what triggered this thought

[Dannflor]

i forgot that's a public alt x.x

she has and she like completely stomped that game. i found it while i was playing w/ her in bianco's game

if this is a pocket, it's working.

I think what worries my about abnegation (aside from Generic just feeling well within his scum range and kind of LAMIST) is just how reactive and passive she is

and I mean I guess I can take the "not wanting to effort" thing at face value but I tend to think even townies who aren't specifically trying to effort inevitably have points where pro-active sorting or prodding comes out whether said townie is trying to effort or not

her play here just feels very observational and hedgey

none of it is like, spectacularly scummy or anything, but it feels safe - and it doesn't really feel like anything in this game is interesting to her. like she had a pretty wide PoE D1 but I don't really feel like I've been prodded or sorted by abnegation or that abnegation is trying to actively sort anyone else in her PoE

and I guess I just would've expected to see at least glimpses of that by now if she were town

ah, yes, being town is sooooooooo interesting when it's the eighteenth time in a row (i swear i do actually like this game, but this is ridiculous ).
but jokes aside, i've heard a lot of this before and i think it's just what happens when i feel blah and checked out of a game. why do you think i'm more likely to play this way (passive, hedgy, disengaged) as scum than as town?

I think scum are generally more likely to play in that way

[Dannflor]

eh

I think the initial setup posts to enter today look scummy but I see town making outrageous posts like that a lot

Rereading though, I don’t love the following reaction to being pushed for these posts. The reaction feels a little like being caught for the wrong reasons

[Dannflor]

I mostly don’t know where CCS’ confidence comes from

[Dannflor]

It doesn’t seem to match up with CCS entering the day being like “oh I have to reevaluate everything now” because dunn flipped town?

[Dannflor]

didnt see the flip at first

i was so sure about dunnstral that now I'm not sure on anyone anymore i might have to reassess my townreads

VOTE: Aureal

im not letting you get to elo

ok ya aureal and dann is my solve lmao

meowmeow and abnegation are just blind

at least for abnegation, shes defending aureal by saying she "trusts in her ability to roll town"

idk the tone on these just don’t seem to jive

I also don’t get the hyper confidence in iavh as town

[iamveryhappy]

regarding iavh I guess I think it's kind of weird that iavh would admit to seeing the T3 crumb because that feels like a very scum indicative thing to admit to

I’m used to seeing crumbs everywhere
We need to hide them better :/

[Black]

do you think there's a benefit to scum!me in hammering the wagon myself instead of allowing t3 to do it?

Nah, the hammer itself didn't ping me as much as the reasoning behind it. Or lack thereof really. It felt like you jumped from Dann to T3 to Dunn and it didn't really seem like you cared which of the 3 were faded. I guess I would expect town!you to differentiate between the 3 and determine which is the scummiest instead of just going with the flow and wherever the wagons led you

[Aureal]

to be clear my point was specifically that i don't think snivy behaves like that as scum with exactly happy

as scum with anyone else it doesn't apply

OK, I guess we're all confused because it seemed like you were talking about a world where iamveryhappy is town. So whatever, then.

Did anyone have any thoughts on my thought experiment?

maybe i should think happy is town if i don't think he's scum with dannflor or snivy. shrug.

Thought experiment I've been mulling over: if happy is town, that means both Mafia were on the Dunnstral elimination. Why would they both get on that?

Or am I the only one who tries to think about gamestate like this?

[Black]

Or am I the only one who tries to think about gamestate like this?

I don't think I put enough brainpower into the game to think of it this way

[camelCasedSnivy]

didnt see the flip at first

i was so sure about dunnstral that now I'm not sure on anyone anymore i might have to reassess my townreads

VOTE: Aureal

im not letting you get to elo

ok ya aureal and dann is my solve lmao

meowmeow and abnegation are just blind

at least for abnegation, shes defending aureal by saying she "trusts in her ability to roll town"

idk the tone on these just don’t seem to jive

I also don’t get the hyper confidence in iavh as town

yeah cuz no one else is saving him

[meowmeow]

i think both scum being on the d1 wagon happens frequently in micros and is not something i would consider especially noteworthy personally

[meowmeow]

i don't think i see "x scum on y wagon" being particularly successful most of the time

most scum players, imo, kind of push whoever they think they can push convincingly or who they think they would scumread as town

i would have no issues believing 0 or 1 or 2 scum on the wagon